Catholics don't believe in certain Bible things?

[PJM]

=Biedrik;7562764]What leads you to believe it is the Catholic Church?

1. A belief in God
2. A belief is God as Creator of all the Universe and what’s on it, and in it
3. Because humanity is “Created in the image and likeness of God”
4. Because Humanity alone can choose to Know, Love and Serve God
5. We can do this BECAUSE we alone have a mind, Intellect, Freewill and Soul; we are the only Created “THING” that has the potential to LOVE.
6. These Gifts from God are like God who is SPIRITUAL, and can be proven to exist; but cannot be quantified. Further evidenceof a GOOD God, is our ability to love, which requires Mind, Intellect and FREEWILL be employed.
7. **John.3: 16 **For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."
8. Because Jesus as a historical figure can be proven to have existed, performed Miracles,
   and DID ONLY Good.
9. Jesus came not only to Redeem us; but to guide us to eternal salvation The CC is a Sacramental Church. Christ founded only One Church, One Faith and One New Covenant. And all the Sacraments: NOTABLY: Baptism; Forgiveness of sins; and Eucharist; Christ REAL PRESENCE in the midist of His CC.

This too is both historically and Biblically proveable.

1. The CC gave to the WORLD the BEST SELLING BOOK OF ALL TIME: HIS BIBLE! A guide to right living and our POSSIBLE Salvation.
2. We can know this because the Spiritual Gifts are so unique and so signifiant; that they HAVE TOO have a reason for being. As do we.

Because God is Good He desires that Salvation be made available to ALL [even though He is disapointed that only “MANY” accept the opportunity.] It is His Church and the authority invested in Peter and his successors that this mandate is specifically given and specifically supported by God Himself. Mt. 16-15-18;Mt. 18:18; Jn.14:16-17 an Jn. 17:15-19.] …Mt. 28:19-20 Matt.28 Verses 19 to 20 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.”

This also confirms the need for succession, which has proved succesful and the CC is now some 2,000 continous and consecutive years old; dating back to Christ actual visitation on earth.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Warrenton]

. For example, the story of Adam and Eve in the garden is an allegorical story that tells us something true - which is that our first parents, Adam and Eve (who were real people, and really the ancestors of every human being who has ever lived) did something terrible that brought evil and death into the world Whatever that thing was that they did has been lost to history, so our ancestors in faith created an allegorical story that presents the essential points - that we are created to be obedient to God; that Adam and Eve failed to obey, and that death has come about as a consequence of that.

This is not precise, and could be misleading.

What Adam and Eve did was eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. There is no evidence that they did anything else, or that what Adam and Eve did was “lost to history.” Our ancestors did not “create” a story. They repeated what they knew, and the oral tradition is what Moses wrote down.

Millions of Catholics believe this to be the truth. The fact that it is not heresy to think otherwise does not mean that the literal truth of Adam and Eve is not “Catholic belief.” Indeed, no one would believe it literally had not Catholics believed it literally first.

Cheers!

 

[Biedrik]

Lotsa stuff

I asked him why he saw reason to interpret the Catholic Church as the beast in Revelations. There’s no need to try to convert me, given that I’m already Catholic.

 

[The_Wizard]

For those that are interested and excellent book on the Catholic view of wht the rapture is wrong check out the book by David B. Currie of the subject. Google Currie+rapture and you will find it. Also finished a study on Revelation before the begining of the year but can’t remember the author and title of the book we used but will edit this post tonight with the author and title.

 

[PJM]

=MontChevalier;7563000]It seems that Catholic.com seems pretty separated when it comes to Revelations.

I read that Rapture article I was handed over. I want to know, does this mean that Jesus Christ won’t be coming on a horse to save the jews from the minions of the Antichrist?

If Revelations really was allegorical, would we know what would be allegorical and what would not?

Oh my God, I’ve been flooded with way too many posts, I need a break. I’ve been reading for over an hour.

-MontChevalier

PS: I am not discouraging people to stop posting. Please continue, until I can recover from reading.

The ONLY TRUE message in the Second comming; is the TRUTH of the second coming. When, and How are God’s domain; our soul task is to be READY, as we do not know the day or time.

Picture stories are to aid our understanding; and are intented to be taken as fact. We mut seek out the actual MESSAGE…

**2nd. Peter 1: 20-21 ** “First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God. “

2 Pet.3: 16 “Speaking of this as he [PAUL] in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. “

If one’s understanding does not conform to CC Teaching; one can be assured of having an incorect understanding.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[Erich]

Apocalypse is a peice of Apocryphal literature, not prophecy, be careful how you interpret Apocalypse (or Revelation, depends which Bible you use on it’s title)

Just to clarify… the term “Apocryphal literature” generally refers to stuff like the seven books (Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and Baruch, as well as longer versions of Daniel and Esther) that are found in the Old Testament canon used by Catholics, but are not in the Old Testament canon used by Protestants. The term can also refer to stuff like the Gospel of Thomas, etc., that didn’t make it into anyone’s New Testament canon.

In that sense, Revelation/Apocalypse is definitely not “Apocryphal literature” given that it’s part of everyone’s New Testament Canon of Scripture.

 

[Skeptic92]

Just to clarify… the term “Apocryphal literature” generally refers to stuff like the seven books (Sirach, Tobit, Wisdom, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, and Baruch, as well as longer versions of Daniel and Esther) that are found in the Old Testament canon used by Catholics, but are not in the Old Testament canon used by Protestants. The term can also refer to stuff like the Gospel of Thomas, etc., that didn’t make it into anyone’s New Testament canon.

In that sense, Revelation/Apocalypse is definitely not “Apocryphal literature” given that it’s part of everyone’s New Testament Canon of Scripture.

Apocalypse is a peice of **Apocalyptic **literature, not Apocryphal, Apocalyptic Literature is a genre of writing, generally to bring about a feeling of hope, and were greatly allegorical, with alot of imagery and allusion,while Apocryphal literature means those books that didn’t make the canon, but can be used to help us understand the historical context of the time, and help us reach a new understanding, but they should not be used to devise any doctrine (such as the Protoevangelium of James, Didache etc).

 

[The_Wizard]

The book on Revelation is “Coming Soon, Unlocking the Book of Revelation and Applying Its Lessons Today” by Michael Barner.

 

[1stOrderKoC]

Every Catholic I know surely does not believe such things. But I would suggest that you pray to the Holy Spirit to give you guidance about the questions you ask friend. You can never go wrong with a good, heartfelt prayer. Peace be with you.

 

[veilofveronica]

Greetings,
I would suggest that you contact a local parish and look at taking an RCIA class. A lot of your questions will be answered there, and you do not have to necessarily join the Church. The lessons are there to help you to discern if you wish to join the Roman Catholic faith.
It sounds as if you are being called to the Faith, and that is truly wonderful and I wish you a warm welcome. All of us in the Faith still have questions! I think even the most learned priests and the Pope himself ponders the great Mysteries of our faith, you are not alone in that.
Keep praying, and attend a local parish for Mass. Come and see what the Church is for yourself, if you have not done so yet.

I also really enjoy the following Catholic Faith Refresher Course, it is free, online, and a sound, traditional introduction or refresher with respect to the Roman Catholic Faith. Good for anyone to read, Catholic or not!!

Blessings of Christ to you, and may the Lord continue to bless you.

 

[1stOrderKoC]

Greetings,
I would suggest that you contact a local parish and look at taking an RCIA class. A lot of your questions will be answered there, and you do not have to necessarily join the Church. The lessons are there to help you to discern if you wish to join the Roman Catholic faith.
It sounds as if you are being called to the Faith, and that is truly wonderful and I wish you a warm welcome. All of us in the Faith still have questions! I think even the most learned priests and the Pope himself ponders the great Mysteries of our faith, you are not alone in that.
Keep praying, and attend a local parish for Mass. Come and see what the Church is for yourself, if you have not done so yet.

I also really enjoy the following Catholic Faith Refresher Course, it is free, online, and a sound, traditional introduction or refresher with respect to the Roman Catholic Faith. Good for anyone to read, Catholic or not!!

Blessings of Christ to you, and may the Lord continue to bless you.

She is absolutly right about her post. My wife was having problems with her direction and so she joined an RCIA class (I attend to gain a better understanding) and she is loving it. We have really good teachers and they always seem to have the right answer. God Bless you on your journey!

 

[Peter_Gabriel]

Making Senses Out of Scripture by Mark Shea is a comprehensive source that points to a number of other sources, including St. Augustine and St. Jerome. Many of the Early Fathers, especially those most involved in giving us the canon of the Scriptures, saw the story of the Garden as an allegory. They recognized the distinct difference in style from the first chapter of Genesis, which recounts the order of the Creation.

In taking the second chapter of Genesis as allegorical, one is not in any way affirming Darwinism or the theory of evolution. It is simply that, the magic tree and the talking snake stand in for spiritual realities - they are not intended to be understood literalistically.

Thank you, where can I find these passages he references from a few of the early Church Fathers? I’ve not come across these yet.

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you, where can I find these passages he references from a few of the early Church Fathers? I’ve not come across these yet.

A starting point would be Pope John Paul II’s Address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, given on October 22, 1996.

(I could not locate the English edition on-line, but I assume it must be in print somewhere.)

 

[Erich]

Apocalypse is a peice of **Apocalyptic **literature, not Apocryphal

Correct… but since that’s not what you wrote in the post I referenced (i.e. you wrote “Apocryphal” even though I’m sure you meant to write “Apocalyptic”) I jumped in to clarify.

Glad we’re all on the same page now

 

[Skeptic92]

Correct… but since that’s not what you wrote in the post I referenced (i.e. you wrote “Apocryphal” even though I’m sure you meant to write “Apocalyptic”) I jumped in to clarify.

Glad we’re all on the same page now

Ohhh, i just checked my original post, I can see that i made a mistake, i thought you may have just read what i wrote wrong, however it was my mistake , thank you for pointing out the typo, may have gone unnoticed if you hadn’t lol

 

[Robert_Burns]

Mr Burns, you sound full of anger. I’ll pray for you to find peace. Please don’t assume you know the hearts and minds of others. I was raised MS Lutheran. I’m one of those Protestants of which you speak. I beleive everything in the Bible is the word of God and true. The trueth and salvation offered by Christ doesn’t belong to any one group. Instead of anger-perhaps you might pay for pathience and understanding from the Holy Mother. I am.

Laughable. First of all , No one is allowed to offer private Interpretation of Scripture in Catholicism. Only the Magisterium can dicern Scripture. Thank you in advance for your prayers and as for your erroneous charge of anger - it would appear from the tone of your post to me , a perfect stranger to you , that something I said Struck a Nerve with you and thus caused ACTUAL anger in you for which I will both apologize to you for and of course pray that you get over your overly emotional response and instead substitute a calm reasoning approach to what I actually said. I know GOD Will provide you with that calming peace so that you can then discuss rationally what was said in Christian Charity and thus benefit as the intention from the beginning on my part was always to be beneficial.

Now as for agrrement with you , indeed in the TRUE Bible , every single word is the word of GOD. The problem , of course , is that most Protestant Sects have edited and re edited the Bible without the Imput from the only TRUE Entity that has that authorization from GOD to do so and thus the versions they cling to have the handprints of mortal men all over them - and couple that with the Protestant notion that any Individual may at his pleasure determine for himself what those edited Words mean and of course at this point we have essentially a hodgepodge of Some Truths intermingled with opinion intermingled with bias intermingles with predjudices between sects ad nauseum. Certainly , for me a Catholic to say this to you a Protestant - will result in a disagreement as you will no doubt cling to your belief that the “Bible” you have is legitimate.

The Catholic Church has the FULLNESS of Truth. No matter who wants to argue that point from the outside - the Catholic Church doesnt take information from non Catholic sources - it is the source , because only to her is promised the Guidance of the holy Ghost and the Infallibility of the Papacy. No Protestant Sect can make that claim - every Protestant Sect has flaws. the only question being , how flawed.

So no , there is no anger on my part , why would there be - I have the True Church. No the anger no doubt , will come from those who object to what i say and for the reason I just state - because they do not.

In order to Believe in everything in the Bible - two things are required

1 : The TRUE Bible

2: Proper Exegesis from the only Lawful Authority so ordained by GOD. The Catholic Church

Pax

 

[MontChevalier]

Guys, guys, I’m not sure if my perspective is at all popular, but I’ll say straight out.

I don’t know who is right or wrong. But whoever lives by Christ’s message, aswell as that of the Epistles, certainly that person can’t be that bad. Can he?

I mean, if we accept some people as they are, excluding those who ignore certain verses in the Bible for the sake of their individuality or whatever, then perhaps such churches might not be all that different from Catholicism, and even then, only different in minor things.

I mean, afterall, I was encouraged by my best friend, who is a Protestant, to get into Catholicism. Could anyone without God truly have done such?

I mean, is there anything in the Bible Catholics, DON’T believe in?

 

[jmcrae]

Guys, guys, I’m not sure if my perspective is at all popular, but I’ll say straight out.

I don’t know who is right or wrong. But whoever lives by Christ’s message, aswell as that of the Epistles, certainly that person can’t be that bad. Can he?

Anybody, including atheists, and including any person of any religion, can be a morally good person. The moral law is written on every heart. It is obvious to even the most primitive jungle dweller that murder is wrong, that adultery is wrong, and that stealing is wrong.

Being a morally good person is not the same as being a Christian who is not in schism or in heresy.

If all we’re going for is “good” then we don’t even really need religion at all.

Religion is about what we practice with regard to the worship of God, and what we believe about God.

If we say that these things can’t be known, and that one thing is just as good as any other thing, then you can do whatever feels nice - any religion is as good as any other.

But if we say, there is a Revealed body of knowledge, beginning with Moses and extending to the Apostles, and that God revealed these things to human beings because believing what is true is important, then we need to be in full communion with the Church, so as to be taught the things that are true, and in order to worship in the way that is acceptable to God.

 

[VexinConfection]

Laughable. First of all , No one is allowed to offer private Interpretation of Scripture in Catholicism. Only the Magisterium can dicern Scripture. Thank you in advance for your prayers and as for your erroneous charge of anger - it would appear from the tone of your post to me , a perfect stranger to you , that something I said Struck a Nerve with you and thus caused ACTUAL anger in you for which I will both apologize to you for and of course pray that you get over your overly emotional response and instead substitute a calm reasoning approach to what I actually said. I know GOD Will provide you with that calming peace so that you can then discuss rationally what was said in Christian Charity and thus benefit as the intention from the beginning on my part was always to be beneficial.

Now as for agrrement with you , indeed in the TRUE Bible , every single word is the word of GOD. The problem , of course , is that most Protestant Sects have edited and re edited the Bible without the Imput from the only TRUE Entity that has that authorization from GOD to do so and thus the versions they cling to have the handprints of mortal men all over them - and couple that with the Protestant notion that any Individual may at his pleasure determine for himself what those edited Words mean and of course at this point we have essentially a hodgepodge of Some Truths intermingled with opinion intermingled with bias intermingles with predjudices between sects ad nauseum. Certainly , for me a Catholic to say this to you a Protestant - will result in a disagreement as you will no doubt cling to your belief that the “Bible” you have is legitimate.

The Catholic Church has the FULLNESS of Truth. No matter who wants to argue that point from the outside - the Catholic Church doesnt take information from non Catholic sources - it is the source , because only to her is promised the Guidance of the holy Ghost and the Infallibility of the Papacy. No Protestant Sect can make that claim - every Protestant Sect has flaws. the only question being , how flawed.

So no , there is no anger on my part , why would there be - I have the True Church. No the anger no doubt , will come from those who object to what i say and for the reason I just state - because they do not.

In order to Believe in everything in the Bible - two things are required

1 : The TRUE Bible

2: Proper Exegesis from the only Lawful Authority so ordained by GOD. The Catholic Church

Pax

I offered no private interpretation and I use the same Bible as does the Catholic Church-I can’t speak for other Lutherans or Protestants. That the Catholic Church is constantly changing and growing is something that’s impressed me. although; I find it to be a bit liberal at times. I appreciate your prayers.
Perhaps you might care to discuss this off the boards?