Catholics Don't Think for Themselves!

[cpayne]

I had a similar comment made to me one time in a room full of secular academics. So I simply made the comment, “I am the only one in this room who thinks the way I do. Everyone else in this room thinks exactly the way you do about virtually everything. Which one of us thinks for himself?”

A great phrase I picked up somewhere: “The herd of independent thinkers.”

 

[water]

well, no matter how old I am, my mom always sees me as her little tiny baby and I do ask her for advices and listen to her very often. The older the wiser.

…the best part … my mom listens to and follows Pope’s advices.

and how does the Pope follow? - the Holy Spirit.

 

[jmcrae]

Hey, maybe that’s why I couldn’t figure out what to wear to work this morning! I tried to figure it out on my own instead of asking the Pope! Do I need to go to Confession for this?

 

[Crumpy]

Protestants have their fair share of those that can’t think for themselves as well. They believe and do whatever their Pastor tells them.

I like to listen to Charles Stanley (a Baptist tv evangelist) but he leads people to accept his own biases, on his authority alone.

Ironic that such people deny such authority to the Pope, and do so in the process of claiming it themself.

 

[Randy_Carson]

… at least that’s what many of my friends and associates say.

Their reasoning is that we just do what the Pope tells us to do and that we therefore do not need to figure anything our for ourselves. We let our Pope do our thinking for us.

The inference in all this of course is that they are the enlightened, intelligent, free-thinkers, and that Catholics are mindless followers.

Any ideas on a response to this accussation, other than the obvious one of telling them to take a hike?

Wow.

We should pull together a list of all the Catholics who didn’t think for themselves…let’s see…there was Polycarp, Ignatius, Irenaeus, Linus, Anacletus, Clement, Athanasius, Basil, Augustine, Gregory of Nyssa, Gregory of Nazianza, Jerome, Justin Martyr, Origen, Tertullian…Francis, Dominic, Clare…Thomas More, John Henry Newman…

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

My question is if Catholics don’t think for themselves who or where does the Pope go to? Is he just out of luck?

 

[Greg27]

Anyone who reads fine Catholic theologians like Thomas Aquinas, Von Balthasar or Karl Rahner will see the falsity of this accusation.

 

[JohnPaul]

What in particular do they disagree with the pope about? What brilliant “thou shalt nots” have they come up with on their own?

Most of it pertains to social issues (abortion, stem cell research, etc.), especially as it relates to the political process. They might say something like, "I don’t need a Pope to tell me how to vote on Amendment 2 (an embryonic stem cell research). Or even though this candidate is pro-Choice, “I can weigh the good and bad on my own and not exclude them if I want”.

 

[buffalo]

The Pope told me to say that God gaves us a brain and to use it. He does not want us to be robots. Catholicism is intellectual and in complete harmony with truth, since it comes from God.

 

[August]

Thinking for myself is what led me to become a Catholic.

 

[clmowry]

I’d like them to find anybody out there that the Pope has “told” to do anything?

Heck we can’t even make “pro choice” politicians admit that they are not following Church teaching.

Maybe I’m just not on the “DO THIS, DO THAT” mailing list that all the other Catholics subscribe too.

Apparently your friends are aware of a different Catholic Church than the one I attend. Maybe I can find it and join up.

Far from blindly following the Pope’s “commands”, I see a majority of Catholics who simply flat out reject clearly articulated Church teachings. (I’m not suggesting however that this is because these folks “think for themselves” and others don’t. In fact I’d suggest just the opposite. These folks want things their way and rational thought should never get in the way of what we want. Should it?)

The Catholic faith is a religion of Faith and Reason, perhaps more so than any other religion on the planet.

Point them at: **FIDES ET RATIO
**
vatican.va/edocs/ENG0216/_INDEX.HTM

Oh wait that would be the Pope telling us to “think for our selves” so I guess if we “think for our selves” it must not count because the Pope thought it was a good idea.

Chuck

… at least that’s what many of my friends and associates say.

Their reasoning is that we just do what the Pope tells us to do and that we therefore do not need to figure anything our for ourselves. We let our Pope do our thinking for us.

The inference in all this of course is that they are the enlightened, intelligent, free-thinkers, and that Catholics are mindless followers.

Any ideas on a response to this accussation, other than the obvious one of telling them to take a hike?

 

[FCEGM]

… at least that’s what many of my friends and associates say.

Their reasoning is that we just do what the Pope tells us to do and that we therefore do not need to figure anything our for ourselves. We let our Pope do our thinking for us.

The inference in all this of course is that they are the enlightened, intelligent, free-thinkers, and that Catholics are mindless followers.

Any ideas on a response to this accussation, other than the obvious one of telling them to take a hike?

This sometimes (too often) comes in the various threads here. I like what a priest who is a friend of mine once wrote:

Discovering truth does not require one to be original or inventive, but receptive to reality. To learn from the knowledge of others is called wise, especially for the young who in their pride refuse to consider the truths others have discovered before them. Some, though, prefer to linger under this adolescent stance of independent thinking, rather than openness to the Truth found in the Tradition, especially in matters of religion. As Cdl. Newman said:

"There is a demand for reckless originality of thought, and a sparkling plausibility of argument. . .a demand for crude theory and unsound philosophy, rather than none at all. It is a sort of repetition of the "Quid nove? (what’s new) of the aeropagus, and it must have an answer."QUOTE]

 

[La-Petite-Fleur]

… at least that’s what many of my friends and associates say.

Their reasoning is that we just do what the Pope tells us to do and that we therefore do not need to figure anything our for ourselves. We let our Pope do our thinking for us.

The inference in all this of course is that they are the enlightened, intelligent, free-thinkers, and that Catholics are mindless followers.

Any ideas on a response to this accusation, other than the obvious one of telling them to take a hike?

First of all, they shouldn’t be so “intolerant” as to insult you like that.

Anyway, the Bible says “lean not on your own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5). We are to be led by the Holy Spirit in all our decisions, and as Catholics we know that the Holy Spirit guides our dear Pope, such as in matters of dogma, etc. Secondly, thinking for one’s self without the guidance of God or the Church regarding matters of truth (including morality) is often moral relativism, a huge no-no. God bless the non-Catholics, but look at all the problems with division that they have with all their many denominations simply because they decided to think for themselves (to say “it’s not about religion” all those denominations sure are a lot of religion going on there, but I digress). The infallibility of the Pope is a wonderful blessing. Thank God we don’t think solely by ourselves (alone, without God or God’s guidance through the Pope)… not everyone comes to the same conclusion… and this is where the idiotic moral relativism comes in and people say “what is true for you may not be true for someone else”. With 6 billion minds that can all think for themselves and each one come up with a different conclusion, that’s a world of confusion. Thank God as Catholics we’re well grounded on the Rock and that we have the infallibility of the Pope to show us the universal truth. We are not our own masters. Christ is our master, our shepherd, and our guide. Thank God!

God bless you. You’re not mindless, spineless, or mentally numb like the secular society judges Christians as being. It is holy and wise to seek the council of the Lord, and I’d say it is actually against God’s will for us to lean on our own understanding anyway (leads to moral relativism & confusion). God bless you :hug1:!

As I often say (in memory of one of the greatest minds, Einstein), intelligence without wisdom is an atomic bomb.

 

[JohnPaul]

Great stuff — thanks to all !

 

[buffalo]

**Chapter 14 Liberalism and Free-Thought
**In our day the Catholic world, with as much justice as reason, attributes impiety as a quality of free-thought, whether in a person, a journal or an institution. “Free-thinker” is an odious epithet which few are willing to accept, but which many justly bear in spite of their protestations. They chafe under the appellation of the word, but find no inconvenience in being all that it implies. Persons, societies, books, governments which reject, in matters of faith and morals, the only and exclusive criterion—that of the Catholic Church—are Liberals. They acknowledge themselves to be Liberals. They feel honored to be so recognized and never dream of scandalizing anybody except us terrible “irreconcilables.”

more…

 

[dawgfan]

This thread reminded me of a portion of a letter to the editor from my local newspaper. The writer was replying to a previous letter to the editor that touched on the points of evolution (against) and the Virginia Tech shooter. Apparently the original letter writer had referenced Cardinal Manning but I do not remember in what context.

Henry Edward Cardinal Manning was made Cardinal Bishop in 1875. He was a vigorous proponent of papal infallibility that implies: anything the church leaders advocate, the congregants are expected to believe as a divine revelation.

In recent years, I have read about repulsive acts committed against children by priests, rabbis and preachers. Even though it was condemned from every pulpit as puissantly as possible. Nevertheless, these disgusting transgressions were still endured, primarily by people who were inculcated to not think for themselves.

What do you think? Should I compose my own letter addressing only the 2nd writers 2 paragraphs above? Thoughts?

 

[jmcrae]

What do you think? Should I compose my own letter addressing only the 2nd writers 2 paragraphs above? Thoughts?

My thoughts:

Henry Edward Cardinal Manning was made Cardinal Bishop in 1875. He was a vigorous proponent of papal infallibility that implies: anything the church leaders advocate, the congregants are expected to believe as a divine revelation.

It’s the Pope who’s infallible - not every clergyman on earth.

In recent years, I have read about repulsive acts committed against children by priests, rabbis and preachers.

Believes everything he reads in the newspapers?

Nevertheless, these disgusting transgressions were still endured, primarily by people who were inculcated to not think for themselves.

Blaming the victims? (“It’s not your fault you’re an idiot” = “This happened to you because you’re an idiot.”)

Even though it was condemned from every pulpit as puissantly as possible.

Did the victims hear these sermons, too? (Shouldn’t they have been brainwashed to believe this, as well, then?)

 

[Greg27]

This argument is basically an ad hominem type fallacy and is worthless when it comes to arguments. Simple counter-examples can be given from a range of orthodox thinkers, as well as those who may have been somewhat more to the fringe but were brilliant geniuses in any case.

Here are some great Catholic thinkers:

Boethius
Augustine
Gregory of Nyssa
Thomas Aquinas
Albert the Great
Meister Eckhart
John Scotus Eriugena
Karl Rahner
Dante
Descartes
Galileo

And there are plenty of others.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Just a few out of nearly 2 billion Catholics that have lived and died and currently living.

I think the OP was addressing the majority of Catholics instead of all Catholics.

There needs to be the distinction.

But as I have said before a majority of Protestants don’t think for themselves either.