Catholics Embracing Protestants

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Augustine3

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Just something I’m pondering. I don’t often see Catholics embracing Protestants with this quote:

Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company." Jesus said to him, “Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.” - Luke 9:49-50
 
I have heard of priests strangely saying this very thng from the pulpit - that this passage justifies Protestantism. However, the passage is very clear in saying that whoever is not against you is with you. Protestants are most certainly against the Church that Christ founded. After all, that is why they are Protestants, That is the definition of Protestantism. If they were for us, they would be in the Catholic Church.
 
I think given how secular a lot of countries are I think us Christians need to support each other. I have had some wonderful emotional and prayer support from protestant friends and I gladly return the favor.
 
Augustine3 said:
Just something I’m pondering. I don’t often see Catholics embracing Protestants with this quote:

Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company." Jesus said to him, “Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.” - Luke 9:49-50
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It is at the heart of Unitatis Redintegratio, the declaration of the world’s bishops at Vatican II on ecumenism
Even in the beginnings of this one and only Church of God there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly condemned. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions made their appearance and quite large communities came to be separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame. The children who are born into these Communities and who grow up believing in Christ cannot be accused of the sin involved in the separation, and** the Catholic Church embraces upon them as brothers, with respect and affection. For men who believe in Christ and have been truly baptized are in communion with the Catholic Church even though this communion is imperfect**. The differences that exist in varying degrees between them and the Catholic Church - whether in doctrine and sometimes in discipline, or concerning the structure of the Church - do indeed create many obstacles, sometimes serious ones, to full ecclesiastical communion. The ecumenical movement is striving to overcome these obstacles. But even in spite of them** it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ’s body, and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church**.
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Moreover, some and even very many of the significant elements and endowments which together go to build up and give life to the Church itself, can exist outside the visible boundaries of the Catholic Church: the written word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, and visible elements too. All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to Christ, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.
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The brethren divided from us also use many liturgical actions of the Christian religion. These most certainly can truly engender a life of grace in ways that vary according to the condition of each Church or Community. These liturgical actions must be regarded as capable of giving access to the community of salvation.
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It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church.
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In his encyclical Ut Unum Sint, Pope Saint John Paul II underscored the reality that those who are baptised all belong to Christ.
  1. It happens for example that, in the spirit of the Sermon on the Mount, Christians of one confession no longer consider other Christians as enemies or strangers but see them as brothers and sisters. Again, the very expression separated brethren tends to be replaced today by expressions which more readily evoke the deep communion — linked to the baptismal character — which the Spirit fosters in spite of historical and canonical divisions. Today we speak of “other Christians”, “others who have received Baptism”, and “Christians of other Communities”. The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism refers to the Communities to which these Christians belong as “Churches and Ecclesial Communities that are not in full communion with the Catholic Church” This broadening of vocabulary is indicative of a significant change in attitudes. There is an increased awareness that we all belong to Christ. I have personally been able many times to observe this during the ecumenical celebrations which are an important part of my Apostolic Visits to various parts of the world, and also in the meetings and ecumenical celebrations which have taken place in Rome. The “universal brotherhood” of Christians has become a firm ecumenical conviction. Consigning to oblivion the excommunications of the past, Communities which were once rivals are now in many cases helping one another /…/
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It needs be reaffirmed in this regard that acknowledging our brotherhood is not the consequence of a large-hearted philanthropy or a vague family spirit. It is rooted in recognition of the oneness of Baptism and the subsequent duty to glorify God in his work. The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism expresses the hope that Baptisms will be mutually and officially recognized. This is something much more than an act of ecumenical courtesy; it constitutes a basic ecclesiological statement.
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Homerun14 said:
I have heard of priests strangely saying this very thng from the pulpit - that this passage justifies Protestantism. However, the passage is very clear in saying that whoever is not against you is with you. Protestants are most certainly against the Church that Christ founded. After all, that is why they are Protestants, That is the definition of Protestantism. If they were for us, they would be in the Catholic Church.
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Yes and no.
There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church - Father Fulton Sheen
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Protestants today are not the same as protestants of the 16th century. Just like there are many Catholics that do not know fully their faith or its roots, so to many protestants do not know their roots, or the truth of Catholicism. If they did would they be Catholic, i would think and hope so, but its not just about telling them in words its about showing them in our actions also. Since many Catholics do not do a good job of this, to others our words and actions do not match and therefor it is not a matter of raw knowledge of which church to belong to making our job as good Catholics becomes slightly more challenging.👍

Peace!!!
 
Don_Ruggero said:
It is at the heart of Unitatis Redintegratio, the declaration of the world’s bishops at Vatican II on ecumenism

In his encyclical Ut Unum Sint, Pope Saint John Paul II underscored the reality that those who are baptised all belong to Christ.
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Very insightful post I hope all will read.

Thank you

Regards
 
I married a Protestant so I “embrace” him on a regular basis, though not with that quote 🙂

Seriously, as long as a Protestant is not one of those Westboro Baptist types running around preaching hate rather than God’s love, I assume that the good Protestant is also a brother of mine in Christ, though the Protestant’s ways are not my ways and we may well find each other’s faith and worship styles to be a little bizarre.
 
rabbitdonkey said:
what do you mean
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You said we shouldn’t presume someone outside the Church (I assumed you meant the Catholic Church, help me if I am wrong?) is saved. A was asking what do you exactly mean as a Catholic cannot even presume being a Catholic means you are saved? So I don’t really see the point in your post. In the end it is all up to God we all just happen to point out what may help and what not. But presuming any salvation is not affirmed by any Catholic teaching one way or the other. That is my question to your post.

Regards
 
rabbitdonkey said:
i meant we should not neglect the importance of belonging to the Church though i understand it doesnt mean someone not a formal member of the Church is automatically damned however it is harder
Baltimore Catechism 4 (by American bishops in 19th century)
121 Q. Are all bound to belong to the Church? A. All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it, cannot be saved.

Anyone who knows the Catholic religion to be the true religion and will not embrace it cannot enter into Heaven. If one not a Catholic doubts whether the church to which he belongs is the true Church, he must settle his doubt, seek the true Church, and enter it; for if he continues to live in doubt, he becomes like the one who knows the true Church and is deterred by worldly considerations from entering it.

In like manner one who, doubting, fears to examine the religion he professes lest he should discover its falsity and be convinced of the truth of the Catholic faith, cannot be saved.

Suppose, however, that there is a non-Catholic who firmly believes that the church to which he belongs is the true Church, and who has never—even in the past—had the slightest doubt of that fact—what will become of him?

If he was validly baptized and never committed a mortal sin, he will be saved; because, believing himself a member of the true Church, he was doing all he could to serve God according to his knowledge and the dictates of his conscience. But if ever he committed a mortal sin, his salvation would be very much more difficult. A mortal sin once committed remains on the soul till it is forgiven. Now, how could his mortal sin be forgiven? Not in the Sacrament of Penance, for the Protestant does not go to confession; and if he does, his minister—not being a true priest—has no power to forgive sins. Does he know that without confession it requires an act of perfect contrition to blot out mortal sin, and can he easily make such an act? What we call contrition is often only imperfect contrition—that is, sorrow for our sins because we fear their punishment in Hell or dread the loss of Heaven. If a Catholic—with all the instruction he has received about how to make an act of perfect contrition and all the practice he has had in making such acts—might find it difficult to make an act of perfect contrition after having committed a mortal sin, how much difficulty will not a Protestant have in making an act of perfect contrition, who does not know about this requirement and who has not been taught to make continued acts of perfect contrition all his life. It is to be feared either he would not know of this necessary means of regaining God’s friendship, or he would be unable to elicit the necessary act of perfect contrition, and thus the mortal sin would remain upon his soul and he would die an enemy of God.

If, then, we found a Protestant who never committed a mortal sin after Baptism, and who never had the slightest doubt about the truth of his religion, that person would be saved; because, being baptized, he is a member of the Church, and being free from mortal sin he is a friend of God and could not in justice be condemned to Hell. Such a person would attend Mass and receive the Sacraments if he knew the Catholic Church to be the only true Church.
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You say a lot here and when I can I would like to respond. You also hammer on the fact of “never comitting a mortal sin” well we all know that is not really possible (if we take the Catholic view). So knowing everyone commits them how do you explain that to a Protestant? And the original question of presuming salvation.

Also I don’t really see how you addressed my question? (Maybe not a question in that manner but pretty obvious) And focus on the original statement there. This post just added without answering or referring to my statement. Although it wasn’t a question, still you didn’t refer to it in any way.

Regards
 
MichaelP3 said:
You said we shouldn’t presume someone outside the Church (I assumed you meant the Catholic Church, help me if I am wrong?) is saved.
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If we’re totally open and honest about the discussion, I’m not aware of a Catholic analogue to “getting saved”. We get baptized into the Church and repent of sin on a life-long basis; the struggle ending only when the grave swallows us.

As to presuming who is ultimately “saved” and who isn’t, we can’t know on any particular basis as God does the judging. We do state that the odds of being judged favorably are improved by genuine submission to Christ’s Church.
 
Vonsalza said:
If we’re totally open and honest about the discussion, I’m not aware of a Catholic analogue to “getting saved”. We get baptized into the Church and repent of sin on a life-long basis; the struggle ending only when the grave swallows us.

As to presuming who is ultimately “saved” and who isn’t, we can’t know on any particular basis as God does the judging. We do state that the odds of being judged favorably are improved by genuine submission to Christ’s Church.
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My original point exactly!

Thank you!
 
rabbitdonkey said:
However we shouldnt become indifeerent or presume that someone outside the Church is saved.
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We shouldn’t presume that someone inside the Church is saved either. We do not have a clue who is saved, except maybe when the Church canonizes a saint because that is an official Church declaration that the person is in heaven. We would do well to look to our own selves and not be too concerned with the salvation of others; if they need help or guidance we can help and guide them, but whether or not they are saved is between them and God.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
We shouldn’t presume that someone inside the Church is saved either. We do not have a clue who is saved, except maybe when the Church canonizes a saint because that is an official Church declaration that the person is in heaven. We would do well to look to our own selves and not be too concerned with the salvation of others; if they need help or guidance we can help and guide them, but whether or not they are saved is between them and God.
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Good post! 👍
 
Augustine3 said:
Just something I’m pondering. I don’t often see Catholics embracing Protestants with this quote:

Master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow in our company." Jesus said to him, “Do not prevent him, for whoever is not against you is for you.” - Luke 9:49-50
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The better question IMHO is why don’t we see more n-Cs embracing us with this passage in mind. one gets tired of having one’s religion bashed and attempts to proselytize us and our families away from the faith.

I’m open to friendly fellowship with any other Christian, but there’s little chance as long as most of them refrain from speaking out against the fundamentalist anti-Catholics like Mike Gendron and Dallas Theological Seminary. I kick teh dust off my boots as I walk away from all such as that.
 
rabbitdonkey said:
i meant we should not neglect the importance of belonging to the Church though i understand it doesnt mean someone not a formal member of the Church is automatically damned however it is harder
Baltimore Catechism 4 (by American bishops in 19th century)
121 Q. Are all bound to belong to the Church? A. All are bound to belong to the Church, and he who knows the Church to be the true Church and remains out of it, cannot be saved.
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Catechisms from previous centuries do not have the benefit of where the Holy Spirit has led the Church in these past decades…which is one of many reasons that such older catechisms should not be used but instead one looks to contemporary catechisms.

Previous eras rejected the ecumenical movement which is, as the hierarchy has determined, a divine imperative and accepted as such today.
 
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