Catholics Embracing Protestants

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MichaelP3 said:
Good post! šŸ‘
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The Council Fathers at Vatican II gave a strict warning to Catholics, which is every bit as applicable today as it was 50 years ago
All the Churchā€™s children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.
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Indeedā€¦the Council Fathers pay tribute to non-Catholics and remind the lay faithful that all of us have much that we can learn and be edified by those who are disciples of the Lord Jesus but who are not in communion with the Roman See.
Catholics must gladly acknowledge and esteem the truly Christian endowments from our common heritage which are to be found among our separated brethren. It is right and salutary to recognize the riches of Christ and virtuous works in the lives of others who are bearing witness to Christ, sometimes even to the shedding of their blood. For God is always wonderful in His works and worthy of all praise.
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Nor should we forget that anything wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren can be a help to our own edification. Whatever is truly Christian is never contrary to what genuinely belongs to the faith; indeed, it can always bring a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church.
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One of my great disappointments about Catholic Answers is how few people here have the Holy Seeā€™s mind about issues of either Christian Unity or contemporary inter-religious dialogue. That is very sad and, actually, inexcusableā€¦particularly in this age when this information is available at the touch of a button; it is an indictment of those who do not make the mind of the Holy See their own.
 
Don_Ruggero said:
The Council Fathers at Vatican II gave a strict warning to Catholics, which is every bit as applicable today as it was 50 years ago

Indeedā€¦the Council Fathers pay tribute to non-Catholics and remind the lay faithful that all of us have much that we can learn and be edified by those who are disciples of the Lord Jesus but who are not in communion with the Roman See.

One of my great disappointments about Catholic Answers is how few people here have the Holy Seeā€™s mind about issues of either Christian Unity or contemporary inter-religious dialogue. That is very sad and, actually, inexcusableā€¦particularly in this age when this information is available at the touch of a button; it is an indictment of those who do not make the mind of the Holy See their own.
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A post as a "non-Catholic " I would like every Catholic on here to read!

Thank you!
Regards
 
MichaelP3 said:
You say a lot here and when I can I would like to respond. You also hammer on the fact of ā€œnever comitting a mortal sinā€ well we all know that is not really possible (if we take the Catholic view). So knowing everyone commits them how do you explain that to a Protestant? And the original question of presuming salvation.

Also I donā€™t really see how you addressed my question? (Maybe not a question in that manner but pretty obvious) And focus on the original statement there. This post just added without answering or referring to my statement. Although it wasnā€™t a question, still you didnā€™t refer to it in any way.

Regards
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the first time, I didnt communicate what i meant well, we shouldnt presume on the salvation of those in the Church either, i agree. I tried to say what i was thinking in my first post but I shouldā€™ve just said i misspoke. Also the quote is from a Catechism, not me. Sorry for not being clear.

God Bless
 
rabbitdonkey said:
the first time, I didnt communicate what i meant well, we shouldnt presume on the salvation of those in the Church either, i agree. I tried to say what i was thinking in my first post but I shouldā€™ve just said i misspoke. Also the quote is from a Catechism, not me. Sorry for not being clear.

God Bless
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Understood:). Thank you for the reply.

Regards
 
Church_Militant said:
The better question IMHO is why donā€™t we see more n-Cs embracing us with this passage in mind.
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So focus just on Protestantism for a moment. There are major differences in belief just looking at that subset of Christianity. But yet (I think) a Lutheran and a Baptist can call each other ā€œbrotherā€ but may not consider a Catholic as a brother.

Why is that?
 
ajcstr said:
So focus just on Protestantism for a moment. There are major differences in belief just looking at that subset of Christianity. But yet (I think) a Lutheran and a Baptist can call each other ā€œbrotherā€ but may not consider a Catholic as a brother.

Why is that?
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I think there are a few reasons.
  1. Pre-Vatican II the official position of the RCC was that Baptist and Lutherans were not ā€œBrothersā€. As such, we humans tend to be resentful of being looked down upon and hold a grudge. In think in many circles that grudge still holds today.
  2. Protestants, for the most part, donā€™t considered a denomination to be ā€œthe churchā€. In a Protestant/Evangelical understanding, The Church (Called out, electā€¦) is found in various denominations and it is their status in Christ that makes them part of ā€œthe churchā€, not the denomination they attend. I myself donā€™t consider a Baptist or Lutheran a Brother unless they profess Christ as their Redeemer. In other words, being a Baptist doesnā€™t make someone a brother, being a follower of Christ does. And I would say that there are many who are faithful members of Baptist churches who arenā€™t followers of Christ. There is a difference between being a good baptist and being a Christian. One is religion and the other is a life changing, soul changing, heart changing faith that comes by responding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and, as a result, giving oneself over to Christ.
  3. Many Protestant teach that there are many Catholics who are Christians but Catholicism itself does not teach orthodox Christianity. Which is the reverse of what Iā€™ve read on this board, which is there are many Protestants/Evangelicals who are Christians but they donā€™t teach orthodox Christianity. This point is argued incessantly on this board.
 
I think you are right except for point 3. There are those baptized - and by extension therefore Christians - within the various protestant sects, however all are heterodox to one degree or another, and no protestant nor protestant denomination teaches orthodox Christianty. Basically there is no such thing as an orthodox believing protestant, although there are those adhering to various claims of protestant orthodoxy, which in and of itself makes no sense - how many orthodoxies can there be?
 
SyroMalankara said:
I think you are right except for point 3. There are those baptized - and by extension therefore Christians - within the various protestant sects, however all are heterodox to one degree or another, and no protestant nor protestant denomination teaches orthodox Christianty. Basically there is no such thing as an orthodox believing protestant, although there are those adhering to various claims of protestant orthodoxy, which in and of itself makes no sense - how many orthodoxies can there be?
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Yes, and some Protestant leaders will teach that Catholicism teachings have strayed from the orthodox faith but despite that fact, many Catholics have a genuine faith in Christ and are therefore Brothers and Sisters in Christ. As I said, this point is argued on this board over and over again.
 
lanman87 said:
I think there are a few reasons.
  1. Pre-Vatican II the official position of the RCC was that Baptist and Lutherans were not ā€œBrothersā€. As such, we humans tend to be resentful of being looked down upon and hold a grudge. In think in many circles that grudge still holds today.
  2. Protestants, for the most part, donā€™t considered a denomination to be ā€œthe churchā€. In a Protestant/Evangelical understanding, The Church (Called out, electā€¦) is found in various denominations and it is their status in Christ that makes them part of ā€œthe churchā€, not the denomination they attend. I myself donā€™t consider a Baptist or Lutheran a Brother unless they profess Christ as their Redeemer. In other words, being a Baptist doesnā€™t make someone a brother, being a follower of Christ does. And I would say that there are many who are faithful members of Baptist churches who arenā€™t followers of Christ. There is a difference between being a good baptist and being a Christian. One is religion and the other is a life changing, soul changing, heart changing faith that comes by responding to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and, as a result, giving oneself over to Christ.
  3. Many Protestant teach that there are many Catholics who are Christians but Catholicism itself does not teach orthodox Christianity. Which is the reverse of what Iā€™ve read on this board, which is there are many Protestants/Evangelicals who are Christians but they donā€™t teach orthodox Christianity. This point is argued incessantly on this board.
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  1. I also have discovered that many Protestants have no idea that the CC changed their status from heretic to brothers and sisters in Christ.
  2. The Church, (called out) or Ekklesia as in another current thread.
 
Wannano said:
  1. I also have discovered that many Protestants have no idea that the CC changed their status from heretic to brothers and sisters in Christ.
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Actually thatā€™s wrong. A heretic has to be a Christian in order to be a heretic.
  1. The Church, (called out) or Ekklesia as in another current thread.
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That means little. Look up the Greek in act 9:31 where it uses the words ekklhsia kaq olhV which translates as the church throughout all and says Catholic Church. It means the same thing.
 
lanman87 said:
Yes, and some Protestant leaders will teach that Catholicism teachings have strayed from the orthodox faith but despite that fact, many Catholics have a genuine faith in Christ and are therefore Brothers and Sisters in Christ. As I said, this point is argued on this board over and over again.
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That does not mean they are correct does itā€¦
 
I embrace a Protestant every day, he is my husband. My greatest gift and joy. My adoptive mother died when I was very young,in the year that followed our neighbours were our greatest support to a man and woman,often leaving cooked meals for us. Our parish priest,nowhere to be seen,disgraceful.
 
jinglebelle said:
Our parish priest,nowhere to be seen,disgraceful.
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Thatā€™s not very charitable. šŸ˜¦

I know my parish priest, running three parishes, is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest. His parsonage is next to my parish, so I can see when the car ā€œis homeā€ and when it isnā€™t.

It almost always isnā€™t. Tough life for a dude in his mid 60s.

Sometimes they just flat-out canā€™t make it, Jingle.
 
Church_Militant said:
Actually thatā€™s wrong. A heretic has to be a Christian in order to be a heretic.
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I think you misunderstood what he is saying. I believe he is saying that the CC views Protestants as brothers and sisters in Christ rather than heretics and many Protestants donā€™t realize this.
 
ajcstr said:
I think you misunderstood what he is saying. I believe he is saying that the CC views Protestants as brothers and sisters in Christ rather than heretics and many Protestants donā€™t realize this.
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Exactly. Thanks.
 
It is one of the many things I find on Catholic Answers Forum that is nothing short of astonishing. We would never use that term in the academy or in the work of dialogue.

Here, people who are very clearly not theologians, canonists, ecclesiologists or ecumenists bandy it about as if we were in the 16th century.

Even people who purport to be citing history are severely out of step with historians who are part of the academy in 2017.
 
It does not strike you as a very pleasant way to approach other Christians precisely because it is, in fact, a truly awful way to approach other Christians.
 
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