Catholics, Families, and Poverty

[ALoveDivine]

It is obvious that the church places a huge emphasis on having children and on family life in general. This is all well and good and of course children are a blessing. The Church preaches very lovely ideals about how human life should be. There is a problem though.

How human life should be in no way reflects how human life in this society actually is. How can someone who makes, say, less than $20,000 a year possibly be open to life? How could one in good conscience be open to having multiple children if they can barely afford to keep a roof over their head and fill their own stomach? There is an epidemic of poverty in America these days, and it seems to me that church teachings is absolutely out of touch with this reality.

Sometimes I feel as if the Catholic family life is only for the middle class and wealthy. What about poor Catholics who, lacking the self-control and grace for any kind of vocation to celibacy, seek marriage, but honest to God cannot afford to have children? For all the lip service I hear from clergy regarding helping the poor and destitute, it seems the Church’s teachings do not at all work for poor people.

For example, for some really poor married couples, not using contraception could be a life and death issue. On the one hand they lack the self-control to abstain, and on the other hand bringing another child into the world would spell misery and financial ruin.

No wonder the vast majority of Catholics outright ignore church teaching on these matters. Forgive me if I can’t help but see Catholic teaching as hopelessly idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the miserable hardship masses of people in this world face. How can the church possibly address this very real and very serious issue?

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Believe it or not, many low income people in the US do raise healthy, happy children. Someone who makes just $15 an hour and works 40 hours a week earns more than $30.0000 a year and much more with children, after the Earned Income Tax Credit.

 

[Dorothy]

No Catholic need not have self-control due to the Holy Sacraments our Lord Jesus Christ gives to us.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

My above should be: “Someone who makes just $15 an hour and works 40 hours a week earns more than $30,000 a year”

 

[Used2beSherryG]

Your problem here is spiritual one…lack of self control. The church teachings encompass all aspects of human existence. The emphasis here is in doing God’s will. Start there.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

The vast majority of households living in poverty in the US are headed by only women. It’s the lack of fathers that is the main cause of children being born into poverty. There is not a problem with intact families being sent into financial ruin by the addition of a child so I don’t feel there is any urgency for the Church to address a non-existent problem.

 

[mommy_k]

There is no perfect time to have children. You can’t apply parameters-even financial ones or assign a dollar amount needed to have children, or any other limitation. People would be changing these parameters constantly to fit their own views. The church exists to help people live according to God’s plan and this is unchangeable.

When we look at things through the lens of ‘the real’ world-we can never appreciate or experience God’s hand in things and His true gifts.

Many times, doing things in accorance with the church and what Jesus taught us makes no sense to people who are not Catholic. But the rewards are there for thos who follow and trust God’s will.

 

[Sarcelle]

Believe it or not, many low income people in the US do raise healthy, happy children. Someone who makes just $15 an hour and works 40 hours a week earns more than $30.0000 a year and much more with children, after the Earned Income Tax Credit.

I wonder how faithful Catholics make ends meet especially in more expensive states, such as California or Hawaii.

Average home prices in those states are a quarter of a million. No, we are not talking McMansions but basic plain Jane ranch homes.

The ideal Catholic family, especially the ones endorsed by conservatives seem to be a homemaker mother and lots of kids. How does one support this ideal Catholic family in those states and only on one income?

 

[pensmama87]

Just because a person is married doesn’t mean they don’t have to practice self-control. There’s a lot of reasons that comes up during the course of ordinary family life, and sometimes the reason may be financial.

Also, our society seems to have bought into the notion that no contraception means every household will suddenly end up with 15 kids each, but that’s never been the case throughout all of human history. There have always been small families as well as large ones, even before modern birth control.

 

[Anglewannabe]

bringing another child into the world would spell **misery **and financial ruin.

Huh !!! Misery ! How sad that someone would actually think that a child is misery. People who truly know how to trust God would never call an innocent baby misery.

 

[signit]

My above should be: “Someone who makes just $15 an hour and works 40 hours a week earns more than $30,000 a year”

I wonder how faithful Catholics make ends meet especially in more expensive states, such as California or Hawaii.

Average home prices in those states are a quarter of a million. No, we are not talking McMansions but basic plain Jane ranch homes.

The ideal Catholic family, especially the ones endorsed by conservatives seem to be a homemaker mother and lots of kids. How does one support this ideal Catholic family in those states and only on one income?

I’m with that.

$30,000+ isn’t bad and it might provide a family with the basics but it might not provide some of the other things a child might need in today’s world.

Never married or had children but I told someone 20 years ago that if I ever had kids I’d want them to have it better than I did. I wouldn’t feel like I met my responsibility as a parent if I couldn’t do that.

I’m thinking of my uncle who grew up poor, so he wanted to pay for four years of college for each of his children. He knew what an inconvenience it was paying for college and working during the school year and didn’t want his kids under the same stress. I tend to agree.

 

[ALoveDivine]

Huh !!! Misery ! How sad that someone would actually think that a child is misery.

I never said the child itself was misery. What I was saying was that in such circumstances having another child would lead to misery. Poverty is miserable, whether you have any idea what that means or not.

How will you not be miserable, having children you can’t even afford diapers and food for, knowing that if it was up to you you would have not had them due to your hardship, but you felt like you had no choice because your church says using protection or pulling out is evil?

Actually how does that not make you a terrible person, having kids you can’t afford? Guess what folks, not even most priests can successfully practice celibacy. It runs totally contrary to the way GOD designed us! Scripture is clear that it is a gift given to only a few. Those who are impelled to seek marriage in the first place, are those whom it has not been given to.

And this guys, is why something like 89% of your church outright rejects and ignores what the celibate hierarchy teaches on sexual ethics. And I’m with them 100%.

 

[pensmama87]

Oh, so you’re not actually interested in the answer to your question, you just want to tell us how horrible we are.

 

[Xantippe]

It is obvious that the church places a huge emphasis on having children and on family life in general. This is all well and good and of course children are a blessing. The Church preaches very lovely ideals about how human life should be. There is a problem though.

How human life should be in no way reflects how human life in this society actually is. How can someone who makes, say, less than $20,000 a year possibly be open to life? How could one in good conscience be open to having multiple children if they can barely afford to keep a roof over their head and fill their own stomach? There is an epidemic of poverty in America these days, and it seems to me that church teachings is absolutely out of touch with this reality.

Sometimes I feel as if the Catholic family life is only for the middle class and wealthy. What about poor Catholics who, lacking the self-control and grace for any kind of vocation to celibacy, seek marriage, but honest to God cannot afford to have children? For all the lip service I hear from clergy regarding helping the poor and destitute, it seems the Church’s teachings do not at all work for poor people.

For example, for some really poor married couples, not using contraception could be a life and death issue. On the one hand they lack the self-control to abstain, and on the other hand bringing another child into the world would spell misery and financial ruin.

No wonder the vast majority of Catholics outright ignore church teaching on these matters. Forgive me if I can’t help but see Catholic teaching as hopelessly idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the miserable hardship masses of people in this world face. How can the church possibly address this very real and very serious issue?

Within the US, there would be many government programs available to that hypothetical family. Here’s a story from Simcha Fisher about the time that her family (five kids at the time, it sounds like) found themselves on hard times:

"Now the kids got hot dogs for supper, and the adults got a hot dog bun with ketchup. We figure and figured and figured, and discovered that, no matter how hard we squeezed, we were always going to be about forty dollars short of being able to eat and pay our basic bills. Just forty dollars — something that, five years ago, when the economy was better, I would have spent on odds and ends at Target without thinking twice. But it was forty dollars that we didn’t have now, at all.

“So off to the welfare office I went. And they granted us $800 a month for our family of seven. I couldn’t believe it. So much money!”

patheos.com/blogs/simchafisher/2015/04/17/the-day-i-bought-steak-with-my-food-stamps/

I suggest reading the whole piece.

Anyway, my feeling is that actual low income families can have their basic material needs covered one way or another–there is genuinely a floor below which a family with children in the US will not fall.

That said, while nobody is going to starve, there are other important considerations in play for the low-income medium or large family. 1) The schools available will probably be terrible. 2) It’s likely that the services available to special needs children will be at best mediocre (and one should expect at least one special needs child per good-sized family). 3) Adequate homeschooling really does cost money so a family that is attempting to homeschool on a shoe string will probably be doing at best a so so job. 4) There’s the risk of damage to the family’s dignity and self-respect. 5) There’s the issue of scandal–a lot of average Americans (even conservative religious Americans) will not be edified by a larger family that is getting public assistance. (That’s a somewhat complicated problem but I’ll just put that out there, as it is an issue.)

In my opinion, the lower middle class or middle middle class family is more of an issue than the actual poor, as a family at that level 1) has moderate resources but at the same time 2) isn’t eligible for government aid that poorer families are. There are some oddities in that poor families can depend on being able to afford formula, whereas slightly better off SAHM mothers have to breastfeed if they can, like it or not, just because they can’t afford formula. Likewise, I’ve noted that you’ll often see middle middle class families attempting draconian food budgets. (I’ve mentioned before to a middle class CAF poster that her food budget was well below the federal food stamp allowance for a family her size.) But the middle class reflex is to slash the grocery budget whenever there’s money trouble. And that’s to say nothing of the oddities of the US health care system.

 

[1990Domer]

Believe it or not, many low income people in the US do raise healthy, happy children. Someone who makes just $15 an hour and works 40 hours a week earns more than $30.0000 a year and much more with children, after the Earned Income Tax Credit.

First, Paul, you took the words right from me when you mentioned favorable tax legislation like the EITC. Second, on a local level, our church works very closely with the St. Vincent de Paul Society all year long to help all people in need.

Finally, if you stay close to the Sacraments, God will provide you the strength you need!

 

[1990Domer]

I wonder how faithful Catholics make ends meet especially in more expensive states, such as California or Hawaii.

Average home prices in those states are a quarter of a million. No, we are not talking McMansions but basic plain Jane ranch homes.

The ideal Catholic family, especially the ones endorsed by conservatives seem to be a homemaker mother and lots of kids. How does one support this ideal Catholic family in those states and only on one income?

Faith, love and sacrifice. In Hawai’i, there is also a large Mormon population. They also tend to have large families. Hawai’i has affordable housing for those native to the islands. I do know this from fellow alumni of my school.

I can’t speak for CA.

 

[pensmama87]

A little less caustically, I think it does not do anybody a favor to assume that they are incapable of learning self-control. Even addicts can become clean and sober - and if they do 12-step, they do it precisely by depending on a Higher Power. (And this goes for addictions to things that can be completely avoided as well as things that can’t such as food addiction/eating disorders.)

As others have mentioned, there are safety nets and measures in place to care for the poor, and as Christians we have an obligation to help the poor and struggling regardless of the reason they are there. But it seems to me you are focusing much more on how inescapable our sinful desires can be, and that should make it allowable.

 

[1inICXC]

It is obvious that the church places a huge emphasis on having children and on family life in general. This is all well and good and of course children are a blessing. The Church preaches very lovely ideals about how human life should be. There is a problem though.

How human life should be in no way reflects how human life in this society actually is. How can someone who makes, say, less than $20,000 a year possibly be open to life? How could one in good conscience be open to having multiple children if they can barely afford to keep a roof over their head and fill their own stomach? There is an epidemic of poverty in America these days, and it seems to me that church teachings is absolutely out of touch with this reality.

Sometimes I feel as if the Catholic family life is only for the middle class and wealthy. What about poor Catholics who, lacking the self-control and grace for any kind of vocation to celibacy, seek marriage, but honest to God cannot afford to have children? For all the lip service I hear from clergy regarding helping the poor and destitute, it seems the Church’s teachings do not at all work for poor people.

For example, for some really poor married couples, not using contraception could be a life and death issue. On the one hand they lack the self-control to abstain, and on the other hand bringing another child into the world would spell misery and financial ruin.

No wonder the vast majority of Catholics outright ignore church teaching on these matters. Forgive me if I can’t help but see Catholic teaching as hopelessly idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the miserable hardship masses of people in this world face. How can the church possibly address this very real and very serious issue?

Here’s an analogy for you: your child is hoping to become an NFL champion, that also happens to be the ONLY way he will be truly happy. Thing is, to become a champion he needs to join a team, there isn’t one in the area. He needs to buy equipment, that costs money. He needs to train, that takes time and effort. He needs to endure being knocked down, potential injuries etc, that’s painful.

Right now, he is not in the right area, he doesn’t have the money, he might not feel like investing all the time and effort.

What do you tell him as a good parent? (again, pursuing this dream is, hypothetcially, the only way he will Find happiness)

What and how things OUGHT to be is an absolut enorm. We should work at attaining it, not making excuses for not even trying. Who’s MAKING you stay at your 20k job or stopping you from doing MORE? Who’s stopping you from practicing your self-control? Who’s stopping you from moving somewhere with lower costs of living? Etc etc.

These Catholics do not have kids, adequate salaries and are stay-home-moms because the ideal happened to be their reality, they, like everyone else, had to work toward these ideals, to risk, to invest time and effort, to PRAY, to keep the dream alive at the worst of times etc.

I will tell you this, it is not your reality that will keep you from attaining these wonderful Catholic/ Godly ideals. It is your attitude.

 

[MomaMary8]

It is obvious that the church places a huge emphasis on having children and on family life in general. This is all well and good and of course children are a blessing. The Church preaches very lovely ideals about how human life should be. There is a problem though.

How human life should be in no way reflects how human life in this society actually is. How can someone who makes, say, less than $20,000 a year possibly be open to life? How could one in good conscience be open to having multiple children if they can barely afford to keep a roof over their head and fill their own stomach? There is an epidemic of poverty in America these days, and it seems to me that church teachings is absolutely out of touch with this reality.

Sometimes I feel as if the Catholic family life is only for the middle class and wealthy. What about poor Catholics who, lacking the self-control and grace for any kind of vocation to celibacy, seek marriage, but honest to God cannot afford to have children? For all the lip service I hear from clergy regarding helping the poor and destitute, it seems the Church’s teachings do not at all work for poor people.

For example, for some really poor married couples, not using contraception could be a life and death issue. On the one hand they lack the self-control to abstain, and on the other hand bringing another child into the world would spell misery and financial ruin.

No wonder the vast majority of Catholics outright ignore church teaching on these matters. Forgive me if I can’t help but see Catholic teaching as hopelessly idealistic and out of touch with the reality of the miserable hardship masses of people in this world face. How can the church possibly address this very real and very serious issue?

I never said the child itself was misery. What I was saying was that in such circumstances having another child would lead to misery. Poverty is miserable, whether you have any idea what that means or not.

How will you not be miserable, having children you can’t even afford diapers and food for, knowing that if it was up to you you would have not had them due to your hardship, but you felt like you had no choice because your church says using protection or pulling out is evil?

Actually how does that not make you a terrible person, having kids you can’t afford? Guess what folks, not even most priests can successfully practice celibacy. It runs totally contrary to the way GOD designed us! Scripture is clear that it is a gift given to only a few. Those who are impelled to seek marriage in the first place, are those whom it has not been given to.

And this guys, is why something like 89% of your church outright rejects and ignores what the celibate hierarchy teaches on sexual ethics. And I’m with them 100%.

Ahhhh, so now I see where your heart is. I’m glad I waited to post.

I’ve had children in poverty, struggled to pay for diapers, etc. Guess what? We were happy during it all. Now that we have money, we are still happy. Seems the common factor in our level of happiness was not our income level, but rather our strong family life and most of all our faith in God.

You identified yourself as Catholic, so this Church you speak of in such a deragatory way is you. Are you judging all of us by your lack of self control??

Please remember that this time in life is fleeting, the next is eternal. It matters very little as to what we have or don’t have.

 

[1990Domer]

Ahhhh, so now I see where your heart is. I’m glad I waited to post.

I’ve had children in poverty, struggled to pay for diapers, etc. Guess what? We were happy during it all. Now that we have money, we are still happy. Seems the common factor in our level of happiness was not our income level, but rather our strong family life and most of all our faith in God.

You identified yourself as Catholic, so this Church you speak of in such a deragatory way is you. Are you judging all of us by your lack of self control??

Please remember that this time in life is fleeting, the next is eternal. It matters very little as to what we have or don’t have.

MomaMary8, congrats on your little one!