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Farsight001
Guest
Since you’re fishing for someone to ask, why not just elaborate?
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Fragile
Guest
This is sooooooo anathema to the Protestant!
I always kinda wondered why we did, I mean an outline was given into the topic of the sermon, the verses were put on the overhead for all to see, one has the outline to take home for study, why is it necessary for everyone to bring their bible? There was always an answer something like this; “don’t trust me, look it up for yourself.” So am I to assume that you, my pastor, sheppard of the local flock, are lying to me?!
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mikekle
Guest
I was involved in the Pentecostal faith for a few years about a decade ago, and I noticed most people brought bibles with them to the service, even though there was no time could be spent reading it, I came to find out most people brought them because following the service, when people gathered to talk, they would alot of times, be talking and discussing certain aspects of the faith, and would need their bibles to look things up, so I understood why people brought their bibles and I liked the fact that people were this interested to do this.
However whenever I attend a catholic mass, people do gather at the end of the mass to talk, but nobody is discussing the faith or religion, most people that I heard were more interested in talking about their kids, jobs, cars, what their going to do when they get home, etc. Kind of surprised me, but I guess some people are interested and some are not.
However whenever I attend a catholic mass, people do gather at the end of the mass to talk, but nobody is discussing the faith or religion, most people that I heard were more interested in talking about their kids, jobs, cars, what their going to do when they get home, etc. Kind of surprised me, but I guess some people are interested and some are not.
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Farsight001
Guest
Believe me, that bothers the serious Catholics too. After mass is supposed to be a time of quiet for those wishing to stay and pray. Anyone who wants to chat is supposed to leave and chat somewhere else so as not to disturb those in prayer.
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Miriam1947
Guest
Why are you assuming that the chatting is taking place inside rather than outside?
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mikekle
Guest
In the church my family attends here, one of the largest catholic churches in the area, this happens inside and outside following mass.
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pablope
Guest
You should alert our parish priest about this and call his attention and relay your concern about talking inside the church. It should be outside.
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NovusAugustus
Guest
Protestantism is an elitist faith.
Can’t read? No chance at salvation.
Don’t own a bible? No chance at salvation.
The fact is that for most of Christian history, no one but the rich and the Church could do those things. By saying that only literates and bible-owners can be saved, Protestants condemn billions to hell, including many impoverished people in Africa, America, and Asia today.
Can’t read? No chance at salvation.
Don’t own a bible? No chance at salvation.
The fact is that for most of Christian history, no one but the rich and the Church could do those things. By saying that only literates and bible-owners can be saved, Protestants condemn billions to hell, including many impoverished people in Africa, America, and Asia today.
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janeway529
Guest
My mom was born in 1947 in the Philippines. She told me that while growing up the only people who read the Bible were priests and those studying to be priests. The catechism was basically taught as memorization and obedience. When asked for explanations, none were given and the impetus on obedience was followed. When the laity asked their priests for a bible study group, the priests refused, which led many people to the evangelical churches to learn more about the Bible.
I remember reading somewhere about Pope Pius XII saying something about “not reading the Bible on your own.”
I remember reading somewhere about Pope Pius XII saying something about “not reading the Bible on your own.”
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Fragile
Guest
I think you may be exaggerating more than a bit here!
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neophyte
Guest
I can’t speak to your mom’s experience, pther than to say that, as a refugee from the Protestant Deformation, I find that obedience is a sorely needed virtue.
I’m pretty sure that his point was that one can lead oneself astray by reading it apart from the tradition of the Body of Christ, not that one shouldn’t own and study their own copy.
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classica87
Guest
As to the list of “Forbidden Books,” as many have already said, the Church was doing the faithful a service and steering them away from heretical, Protestant translations. As I am in a Medieval lit class, we also often talk about why people couldn’t get a Bible for such a long while.
However, printing, even when the press was introduced and books were no longer copied out by hand, was still incredibly expensive. I have heard many people tell me that in the Middle Ages the churches kept their Bibles “chained up” because they were worried the laity would read them and realize the Church was wrong. But because bibles were so expensive, they had to be chained to keep thieves from stealing them, since churches often only had one copy, and many people could not read. The stained glass windows, as well as readings at Mass, taught the scriptures.
The Church loves the Bible, and we have always loved the Bible, but it is the Church, not scripture, that is the foundation of our faith. We love scripture; it is God’s love letter to us, but it can’t be read apart from Tradition, from the Body, as another poster said. Scripture is not open to private interpretation. Christianity is not a “Me and My Bible” affair.
However, we have homilies during Mass to explain scripture, and most parishes will have bible studies, in addition to formation classes like RCIA. Many very good study bibles exist today, for example, the Ignatius Series, so we have no reason not to read, learn about, and love scripture. It is just important to realize that when we are confused, we must go to the Church, not to ourselves. Only the Church is the “Pillar and Foundation of the Truth,” and only She is protected from errors in faith or morals.
However, printing, even when the press was introduced and books were no longer copied out by hand, was still incredibly expensive. I have heard many people tell me that in the Middle Ages the churches kept their Bibles “chained up” because they were worried the laity would read them and realize the Church was wrong. But because bibles were so expensive, they had to be chained to keep thieves from stealing them, since churches often only had one copy, and many people could not read. The stained glass windows, as well as readings at Mass, taught the scriptures.
The Church loves the Bible, and we have always loved the Bible, but it is the Church, not scripture, that is the foundation of our faith. We love scripture; it is God’s love letter to us, but it can’t be read apart from Tradition, from the Body, as another poster said. Scripture is not open to private interpretation. Christianity is not a “Me and My Bible” affair.
However, we have homilies during Mass to explain scripture, and most parishes will have bible studies, in addition to formation classes like RCIA. Many very good study bibles exist today, for example, the Ignatius Series, so we have no reason not to read, learn about, and love scripture. It is just important to realize that when we are confused, we must go to the Church, not to ourselves. Only the Church is the “Pillar and Foundation of the Truth,” and only She is protected from errors in faith or morals.
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YADA
Guest
Catholics forbidden to read the Bible 
St Jerome said “Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ”
The Church [Catholic] compiled, protected, preserved and canonized the “Bible” … why do all of that if the Church really wanted to keep the Bible away from its people?
I have known Catholics who listen to Protestants tell them we don’t [insert here: Read, Use, Hear, Know] the Bible and believe it … When a fellow Catholic leaving Mass said to me - "Why don’t we hear the Bible at Mass?" … I said - "what do you think you hear at Mass? The First reading, Psalm, Second Reading and Gospel Reading - plus all the prayers [like the Lord’s Prayer]?" … they responded … “that’s the Missal - not the Bible” 
Go figure … ?!? …
Catholics come to Mass to worship God in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass … it is not Bible study … The Mass is a Liturgy - the public work of the Church - founded by Christ and grounded in the roots of Jewish tradition. I have brought Bibles to Mass - and know many people who do. II know many people who bring their own Missals to Mass …
For Catholic Christians - Bible Study is something you do in small groups or alone - outside of Mass …
For many Protestant faiths [yes - I have belonged to protestant churches - first hand knowledge] Sunday worship is in reality a large Bible Study led by the pastor which may or may not include prayer, symbolic communion and singing - and which may be proceeded or followed by small group - Sunday School …
But the Church loves the Bible as God’s Word. She wants us to hear it proclaimed ******to study it
St Jerome said “Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ”
The Church [Catholic] compiled, protected, preserved and canonized the “Bible” … why do all of that if the Church really wanted to keep the Bible away from its people?
I have known Catholics who listen to Protestants tell them we don’t [insert here: Read, Use, Hear, Know] the Bible and believe it … When a fellow Catholic leaving Mass said to me - "Why don’t we hear the Bible at Mass?" … I said - "what do you think you hear at Mass? The First reading, Psalm, Second Reading and Gospel Reading - plus all the prayers [like the Lord’s Prayer]?" … they responded … “that’s the Missal - not the Bible” Go figure … ?!? …
Catholics come to Mass to worship God in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass … it is not Bible study … The Mass is a Liturgy - the public work of the Church - founded by Christ and grounded in the roots of Jewish tradition. I have brought Bibles to Mass - and know many people who do. II know many people who bring their own Missals to Mass …
For Catholic Christians - Bible Study is something you do in small groups or alone - outside of Mass …
For many Protestant faiths [yes - I have belonged to protestant churches - first hand knowledge] Sunday worship is in reality a large Bible Study led by the pastor which may or may not include prayer, symbolic communion and singing - and which may be proceeded or followed by small group - Sunday School …
But the Church loves the Bible as God’s Word. She wants us to hear it proclaimed ******to study it
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classica87
Guest
I think that may be a big difference between the two—having also grown up in a Protestant church, I noticed the Bible (the book itself) seems to be referenced as “the Word,” rather than Christ. Therefore, Bible studies rather than devotional reading are more common, since we must know the Bible to know “God’s Word.”
Of course, that is true, to borrow from Jerome. How can we know Jesus if we don’t read about Him in scripture, or more commonly, hear the scriptures proclaimed? Yet, there seems to be a bizarre correlation of “the Word” with the Bible text, as if Jesus and the Word are two separate things.
In contrast, as much as Catholics love scripture, we realize it’s Jesus and His words—the Word Himself—that will always be most important. Scripture is holy because God gave it to us and it is inspired by Him; His words to us are important. it is not as if the physical text or book itself is holy. For a long time we didn’t have a Bible, and I don’t think anyone complained.
I’m just commenting based on what I see at my Baptist college; those same big pastor-led Bible studies YADA mentions. Personally, I prefer the Mass. Jesus, not the pastor and his Bible, is the star of the show.
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InTheBeginning
Guest
I think a point should be made (sorry if it someone has already brought it up, but I very quickly scanned through the thread), but not until about the last 100 years or so did most people have the ability the read ANYTHING, let alone the Bible. In ancient times 95% of the people were illiterate and would need someone else to read the Bible to them. Perhaps this may be why the Church at that time urged caution if not an outright ban on reading Sacred Scripture, since they were worried that common people who couldn’t read would get a “faulty” version of the Bible. 
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Jimnem61
Guest
Let’s see now! The Catholic Church, through the inspiration and guidance of The Holy Spirit, finally settled upon how many and which Books should constitute the Canon of Holy Scripture, in about the year 380-AD(I use the word Scripture most of the time because the word “Bible” isn’t in the Bible). In the mid 1500s, the “reformers” relegated 7 of these Books, and eventually, ripped them out completely. Martin Luther also wanted the same for the Book/Letter of James, because he vehemently disagreed with the writings, “Faith Without Works, Is Dead”! He was overruled, the Book stayed. The advent of the Printing Press, here comes the Gutenberg Bible, an extremely poor translation of The Scriptures. So, yes, The Church forbade reading these versions. When the English Douay-Rheims, the complete Canon became available, The Catholic Church permitted it’s reading by all who could read, what was it, about 5% of the population could read at that time? I will bring my Rosary to Mass, if I know that I will be using it before or after Mass. I don’t bring my “Bible”, the Book, with me for two reasons: 1) Scripture is always on my mind and in my heart. 2) The Mass is loaded with Scripture; Ref: Justin Martyr(d. 165) or Hippolytus(d. 236). IT IS A FACT, MORE SCRIPTURE IS READ AND REPEATED AT THE CATHOLIC MASS THAN ANY PROTESTANT, FUNDAMENTALIST OR EVANGELICAL SERVICE. If what I have just written is not believed, attend a non-Catholic service, and, you will know! As I stated earlier, I don’t bring my Book of Scripture to Mass because, there isn’t enough time to read it and follow the Mass. BUT, I make plenty of time to read from it at home, with my Good Wife, of whom I have been married to for 46 years. May our Lord Continue to Bless All Of Us…
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Matt_Guitar_Man
Guest
Don’t forget, except for some of the extended genealogies and statistics in numbers etc. If a Catholic attends mass every day, in a three year period he/she will have nearly the whole Bible read to them. On top of this if you are in a larger parish one can also attend vespers through out the year and hear nearly two thirds of the Psalms and also attend every morning the Liturgy of the hours or Divine Office ( more of the Psalms more readings from Scripture ).
The Catholic Liturgy or public worship is practically soaked in Scripture! it is Scripture. and what’s more except for a short usually 10 min’s homily at Mass we don’t have to put up with being harangued by somebody with dubious qualifications giving us their own personal interpretation of Scripture.
In a 2000 year history of Christianity when it is only in the last 5%-10% of this time period when a vast majority of people could actually read the Catholic Church made it Her business to insure the faith full new their Bibles.
The Catholic Liturgy or public worship is practically soaked in Scripture! it is Scripture. and what’s more except for a short usually 10 min’s homily at Mass we don’t have to put up with being harangued by somebody with dubious qualifications giving us their own personal interpretation of Scripture.
In a 2000 year history of Christianity when it is only in the last 5%-10% of this time period when a vast majority of people could actually read the Catholic Church made it Her business to insure the faith full new their Bibles.
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judynurse
Guest
I never knew Catholics were EVER forbidden to read the Bible, except to read Protestant Bibles, although ANY Bible is better than none! I was raised by my Grandparents with the help of my Great-Aunt. My Grandmother was Protestant, her Sister (my Great-Aunt) was Catholic. I didn’t know that they were different. I thought the Services were different just because the buildings were different! (I remember deciding this when I was 4 or 5 years old.) My Great-Aunt taught me the Hail Mary (first prayer I ever learned), then Grandma taught me the Our Father. I started going to Confession when I was 5 or 6. I hadn’t been baptized in either Church! My Grandma taught me to read from the King James Bible. We lived in an Old form Quaker town, where everyone we knew well spoke the same way as in that Bible, so it was easy to learn. My Great-Aunt taught me from the Douay-Rheims Bible. I have read the Bible all my life. When I was in my teens, I studied the old form Hebrew (Ashkenazik) which is what the Old Testament was written in, and learned what the literal meanings of many things were in the original language in the Old Testament. I was college age before I actually realized that the Catholic Bible had more books in it, and I had read them all! Yes, I did get Baptized when I was 9 years old, at my request so I could have my First Communion. I had two years of Catholic School in grade school (I think 4th and 5th grade or maybe 5th & 6th, which is when I was Baptized). Neither of these lovely ladies pushed me either way, they just taught me to love God and Jesus, and my Great Aunt gave me a Rosary & taught me how to say it when I started Kindergarten. She also gave me a small statue of Mary, and my Protestant Grandma made a place for the statue in my room, and put a fresh flower in a vase by it each day! What a wonderful way to learn about God, the Bible, and tolerance! Yes, I should have been Baptized as an infant, but my Great Aunt was the only living Catholic in our family, and no one else objected to her teaching me the Catholic faith. The Sisters at the Catholic School said nothing about my reading ANY Bible. I had to make do with the King James version, couldn’t afford the Vulgate Bible. Learned in my teens (especially after learning Hebrew) what a poor translation it really is!!! Nevertheless, I did learn a lot a about Jesus, salvation, and His sacrifice on the Cross even from that! More people should teach children to read from the Bible. I loved the stories so much, especially the Psalms, that I could read fluently, write (cursive) when I started Kindergarten at age 5. It encouraged me to learn, because I loved the stories about Jesus and His Parables, and loved the Psalms as well. I started learning to read the Bible (after learning the alphabet) at age 3! Encourage everyone to read the Bible, but I definitely recommend a Catholic Bible. It’s a great deal more accurate!
Judynurse
To all who might read my post about learning to read from the Bible as a toddler. I was born prior to WWII, and was 9 years old around 1950! The Mass was in Latin, but the readings at Mass were in English, as was the Homily. I never studied Latin much (my Latin teacher died halfway through the first Semester in 10th grade). However, I did know all the responses by age 7 or 8. As for going to Confession at such a young age, I saw other kids going, asked them what it was & they taught me the procedure and prayers, so I just started going! Had a very good priest who realized I was extremely young, and didn’t forbid me, but allowed me to come each week. I tried going each day before school (I passed the Catholic Church on my way to Public School) and attended early Mass, but he kindly instructed me to only come once each week, which I did. Between my Great Aunt, Grandma and that wonderful, tolerant priest, I was very well instructed in the love of the Scriptures, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, prayer and I still practice tolerance as much as I can! I’m going to be 72 in 2 months, and still feel a thrill each time I attend Mass, and now I am also a Eucharistic Minister, something not possible, especially for a woman when I started during WW!!. God Bless all of you! Oh, yes, I also spent some years in a Convent, wanted so much to be a Sister, but didn’t have a true Vocation. I married in my 50’s, lost my husband 3 years ago, and he converted to Catholic the year after we married & I was his RCIA teacher as well! He was a very devout Catholic, and the last thing he told the priest when dying was “make sure I have a VERY Catholic funeral!” And he did!
JudyNurse
Judynurse
To all who might read my post about learning to read from the Bible as a toddler. I was born prior to WWII, and was 9 years old around 1950! The Mass was in Latin, but the readings at Mass were in English, as was the Homily. I never studied Latin much (my Latin teacher died halfway through the first Semester in 10th grade). However, I did know all the responses by age 7 or 8. As for going to Confession at such a young age, I saw other kids going, asked them what it was & they taught me the procedure and prayers, so I just started going! Had a very good priest who realized I was extremely young, and didn’t forbid me, but allowed me to come each week. I tried going each day before school (I passed the Catholic Church on my way to Public School) and attended early Mass, but he kindly instructed me to only come once each week, which I did. Between my Great Aunt, Grandma and that wonderful, tolerant priest, I was very well instructed in the love of the Scriptures, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, prayer and I still practice tolerance as much as I can! I’m going to be 72 in 2 months, and still feel a thrill each time I attend Mass, and now I am also a Eucharistic Minister, something not possible, especially for a woman when I started during WW!!. God Bless all of you! Oh, yes, I also spent some years in a Convent, wanted so much to be a Sister, but didn’t have a true Vocation. I married in my 50’s, lost my husband 3 years ago, and he converted to Catholic the year after we married & I was his RCIA teacher as well! He was a very devout Catholic, and the last thing he told the priest when dying was “make sure I have a VERY Catholic funeral!” And he did!
JudyNurse
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ezeekl
Guest
I think we must realize that there is a difference between the Catholic Church and protestantism in how we view the Bible. Also we must realize that the Bible is a product of the Catholic Church. After all the very first Bible was Jerome’s *Vulgate * in about 400 AD. There were no protestants then and there would not be for another 1100+ years. The purposeof codifying the scriptures was to combat Gnosticism. Gnosticism produced its own writings and label them as scripture. These are the so called “Lost Books of the Bible” that are the subject of any number of shows on the History or Discovery channel. These writings were ascribed to various Apostles such as the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Judas, The Apocalypse of Peter, etc. As such they caused confusion in some areas and some found their way into the readings during the liturgy of the Mass. So various bishops proposed canons of writings that were to be used at Mass in their dioceses. They all differed. In 348 AD Bishop Athanasius came up with a selection of 27 writings that we use today as the New Testament. Various local synods arrived at the same canon and that became the New Testament of Jerome’s Vulgate. So the Catholic view of scripture was liturgical. The scriptures were to be read and interpreted in Church during the liturgy of the Mass and they still are to this day.
On the other hand Protestantism did away with the concept of church as known in Catholicism. Instead protestantism focused on the universal priesthood of the believer and the idea of an ‘invisible’ church meaning one with no structure. Thus the Bible became a sort of self study guide to Christianity with no guidance by any authority. Now someone is bound to say that the Holy Spirit is the guiding authority but with the myriad of protestant denominations that abound that allegation falls flat on its face. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and Unity not of divisiveness and chaos.
So the concern of someone reading the Bible and coming up with a concept different than that of the Church is present in Catholicism but not in protestantism. Thus in protestantism because of private interpretation of the scriptures, there are no heretics. All are brothers under this concept of the ‘Big Tent’ of Christianity. Except some protestant denominations will deny that to the Catholic Church.
On the other hand Protestantism did away with the concept of church as known in Catholicism. Instead protestantism focused on the universal priesthood of the believer and the idea of an ‘invisible’ church meaning one with no structure. Thus the Bible became a sort of self study guide to Christianity with no guidance by any authority. Now someone is bound to say that the Holy Spirit is the guiding authority but with the myriad of protestant denominations that abound that allegation falls flat on its face. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and Unity not of divisiveness and chaos.
So the concern of someone reading the Bible and coming up with a concept different than that of the Church is present in Catholicism but not in protestantism. Thus in protestantism because of private interpretation of the scriptures, there are no heretics. All are brothers under this concept of the ‘Big Tent’ of Christianity. Except some protestant denominations will deny that to the Catholic Church.
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Zooey
Guest
Thank you for this wonderful story. Your great-aunt and grandmother sound absolutely wonderful. Surely they are “present with the Lord” having done well in raising you to share their love for God.
What a great thing it is to grow up surrounded by people of faith who put their faith into practice!
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