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Carlan
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:thumbsup:Nicea, Our Lord Jesus desires unity for His flock, the Church the world over prays for it in the Mass where ever in the world it is being celebrated.Peace, Carlan
Catholics have confession, what do Protestants have if they sin?
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Nicea325
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Exactly! I do not understand the notion ALL Christians belong to Jesus Christ Church,but divided many times over? Where is that belief taught,so I too can open up shop and still be part of Jesus Church.
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hn160
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Who are you to know the mind of God or Christ or what is a sin? Lutherans probably have a better understanding of what the church is. It certainly not just the Roman Catholic Church and the office of the Pope.
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Califman831
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I do not go by my own interpretation such is the case with noncatholics but rather I go by what the doctors of the church have already stated. I doubt the Lutherans knew the faith better since they did not receive it directly from Christ. Lutheran sects did not come into being till the 16th century. this means that for 1600 years the Catholic church taught what was and what was not the faith. This is something the Church continues to do.Who are you to know the mind of God or Christ or what is a sin? Lutherans probably have a better understanding of what the church is. It certainly not just the Roman Catholic Church and the office of the Pope.
Galatians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed
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Stepson
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Yeah, yeah, yeah… Wolf in sheep clothing. Leading the sheep into damnation. Sinner. Godless. Did I miss anything or does that about cover it?
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PeterGStanley
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St. Paul Violate Matthew 23:9 & call himself “Father”.Did he go to Hell & should we remove his letters?Matthew 7:1-5. And if you are catholic, you stand in judgement of all those who are not! And you mock and blaspheme the true Holy Father by attaching that name to a mere mortal man!
It is not meant to be so literal as to not refer to your own biological Father as Father. The reference is to a spiritual Father the same as the Catholic “Father” is a reference to a spiritual Father through the earthly presence of the true Father’s representative.
Its semantics. I’m sure Jesus would approve of focusing so specifically on such an obscure word while not following the rest of it.
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Carlan
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Of course, It is common sense, to me just using words to creep in to show our prejudice.
Peace, Carlan
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Nicea325
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Really? And if you are non-Catholic you also stand in judgement for mocking an blasphme the true Holy Faher but you calling someone else teacher.
There are several examples in the New Testament of the term “father” being used as a form of address and reference, even for men who are not biologically related to the speaker. There are, in fact, so many uses of “father” in the New Testament, that the Fundamentalist interpretation of Matthew 23 (and the objection to Catholics calling priests “father”) are wrong.
The context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, “But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ” (Matt. 23:8–10).
The first problem is that although Jesus seems to prohibit the use of the term “teacher,” in Matthew 28:19–20, Christ himself appointed certain men to be teachers in his Church: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations . . . teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” Paul speaks of his commission as a teacher: “For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth” (1 Tim. 2:7); “For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher” (2 Tim. 1:11). He also reminds us that the Church has an office of teacher: “God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers” (1 Cor. 12:28); and “his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers” (Eph. 4:11). There is no doubt that Paul was not violating Christ’s teaching in Matthew 23 by referring so often to others as “teachers.”
Fundamentalists themselves slip up on this point by calling all sorts of people “doctor,” for example, medical doctors, as well as professors and scientists who have Ph.D. degrees (i.e., doctorates). What they fail to realize is that “doctor” is simply the Latin word for “teacher.”
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1beleevr
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It’s the old, "pot calling the kettle black!"You know, saying,“Noncatholics sin, and rebuke them all!” Putting him or herself above everyone, as though by virtue of being catholic, they are sinless
And I have never disrespected the pope, just calling a spade a spade! he is a man, such as I, of course with a title. Nowhere does Jesus tell anyone to call men of God, Father.In fact, He says just the opposite. Listen, catholics are compelled to address this man as holy father, non catholics are not and do not! I know former catholics who say they hated calling the pope holy father! So, no disrespect intended, just airing my opinion.
And I have never disrespected the pope, just calling a spade a spade! he is a man, such as I, of course with a title. Nowhere does Jesus tell anyone to call men of God, Father.In fact, He says just the opposite. Listen, catholics are compelled to address this man as holy father, non catholics are not and do not! I know former catholics who say they hated calling the pope holy father! So, no disrespect intended, just airing my opinion.
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1beleevr
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The catholics are asking noncatholics, "What confirmation do you have that you are forgiven. So, how do catholics know they are forgiven?
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1beleevr
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In John 17:11, Jesus, speaking to God, addresses Him as Holy Father. To me, this is confirmation of God’s sovereignty and authority. I do not believe this was passed on to man by God.And I believe there was a reason that certain titles were capitalized in the Bible. It was probably to show authority. Jesus was the great Teacher; you and I have had some great teachers. All of us humans had an earthly father, we have one heavenly Father. So whether you’re compelled or not, not calling him holy father is not a crime. I would call him “sir”, though!
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1beleevr
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Good point, but, I’m wondering if, because of the Spirit of God in Him, jesus was able to heal, forgive sins and perform miracles. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God, so He was able to overcome the obstacles of life!Hi, believer, this may help you belive God gives power to men, and the reason He instituted His Church.
In Mark 2:1–12 we find in the story the story of the healing of the paralytic. When Jesus saw the paralytic, he said to him, “Your sins are forgiven” (Mark 2:5). The scribes gave the same objection that you raised—that is, that only God can forgive sins. They asked, “Who can forgive sins except God alone?” And they were right. But notice how Jesus changes this later in the story. He performs the miracle of healing precisely to show that “the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins” (Mark 2:10). So what was once only in heaven is now on earth because Jesus has the authority to forgive as man. From: catholic.com
God Bless
onenow1
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1beleevr
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This post reeks of condemnation, as well as judgement! No offer of proof to back up claims either!
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1beleevr
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[No message]
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Nicea325
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Exactly! If you are so confident you are forgiven,then tell us what confirmation do you have one is forgiven? Apparently you are confident that you and your man-made church knows better than the CC who has been around a lot longer. So please enligten us all.The catholics are asking noncatholics, "What confirmation do you have that you are forgiven. So, how do catholics know they are forgiven?
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Nicea325
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Deacon_Latif
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With respect, those who said that the Lutherans have three sacraments are mistaken. Baptism, the Eucharist, and Absolution are certainly sacraments, but the thing about the Lutheran thinking on the number of sacraments is that we do not insist dogmatically on a particular number of sacraments. This is because the very definition of a sacrament can vary, and in fact, the Book of Concord is open to seeing Ordination as a sacrament, same for Marriage. For that matter, the Lutheran Confessions are not opposed to any of the classic seven being termed sacraments per se. Marriage is highly valued, for example, but it is not vital to term it a sacrament. Some think Lutheranism has a low view of Ordination, yet without it, we wouldn’t have presbyters. The difference between Lutheranism & Roman Catholicism on the matter of sacraments, what they are, what they give, etc, cannot be done justice in a paragraph, but is in many ways smaller than Catholic apologists often imply (the difference is also smaller than many modern Lutherans have been led to think). Part of the difference is in our (traditional Lutheranism’s) distaste for confining matters to Thomistic categories.
Deacon, So good to see you again. We need you to visit more often.
This well answers my question in post #91, and stepson’s reply to it in post #92.
Thanks,
Jon
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Califman831
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Am just a messenger the condemnation was done at the Council of Trent. Please look it up.This post reeks of condemnation, as well as judgement! No offer of proof to back up claims either!
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Califman831
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The only discussion am interested in is to call them to the fold of the Catholic church not some politically correct pseudo-ecumenical nonsense where every church is a true church. True ecumenism is holding the front door of the church open to the lost sheep and anyone else that seeks to gain salvation in Christ’s church.
VATICAN SAYS NO RELIGION EQUALS ROMAN CATHOLICISM
VATICAN CITY, Sept 5 (Reuters) (Condensed) - The Vatican on Tuesday rejected the concept that other religions could be equal to Roman Catholicism and ordered its theologians not to manipulate what it called the truth of the faith.
The Vatican’s restatement of its position was outlined in a complex theological document, the English title of which was ``Declaration The Lord Jesus – On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church’’ .
The document repeated Church teachings that non-Christians were in a
At a news conference to present the document, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican’s doctrinal head, said some theologians were ``manipulating and going beyond the limits’’ of tolerance when they put all religions on the same
plane.
``Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him,’’ it said.
cephasministry.com/catholicism_is_mother_church.html
VATICAN SAYS NO RELIGION EQUALS ROMAN CATHOLICISM
VATICAN CITY, Sept 5 (Reuters) (Condensed) - The Vatican on Tuesday rejected the concept that other religions could be equal to Roman Catholicism and ordered its theologians not to manipulate what it called the truth of the faith.
The Vatican’s restatement of its position was outlined in a complex theological document, the English title of which was ``Declaration The Lord Jesus – On the Unicity and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church’’ .
The document repeated Church teachings that non-Christians were in a
gravely deficient situation'' regarding salvation and that other Christian churches had defects,’’ partly because they did not recognise the primacy of the Pope.At a news conference to present the document, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican’s doctrinal head, said some theologians were ``manipulating and going beyond the limits’’ of tolerance when they put all religions on the same
plane.
``Therefore, there exists a single Church of Christ, which subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the Successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him,’’ it said.
cephasministry.com/catholicism_is_mother_church.html
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