Catholics have confession, what do Protestants have if they sin?

[adstrinity]

Psalm 31 in it’s entirety:

Beati quorum. The second penitential psalm.

[1] To David himself, understanding. Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. [2] Blessed is the man to whom the Lord hath not imputed sin, and in whose spirit there is no guile. [3] Because I was silent my bones grew old; whilst I cried out all the day long. [4] For day and night thy hand was heavy upon me: I am turned in my anguish, whilst the thorn is fastened. [5] I have acknowledged my sin to thee, and my injustice I have not concealed. I said I will confess against myself my injustice to the Lord: and thou hast forgiven the wickedness of my sin. [6] For this shall every one that is holy pray to thee in a seasonable time. And yet in a flood of many waters, they shall not come nigh unto him. [7] Thou art my refuge from the trouble which hath encompassed me: my joy, deliver me from them that surround me. [8] I will give thee understanding, and I will instruct thee in this way, in which thou shalt go: I will fix my eyes upon thee. [9] Do not become like the horse and the mule, who have no understanding. With bit and bridle bind fast their jaws, who come not near unto thee. [10] Many are the scourges of the sinner, but mercy shall encompass him that hopeth in the Lord. [11] Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, ye just, and glory, all ye right of heart.
[3]* “Because I was silent”… That is, whilst I kept silence, by concealing, or refusing to confess my sins, thy hand was heavy upon me, etc.

[4] “I am turned”… That is, I turn and roll about in my bed to seek for ease in my pain whilst the thorn of thy justice pierces my flesh, and sticks fast in me. Or, I am turned: that is, I am converted to thee, my God, by being brought to a better understanding by thy chastisements. In the Hebrew it is, my moisture is turned into the droughts of the summer. *

 

[Gonzo4Christ]

I’m sorry. I just don’t see how that doesn’t “look” Catholic. James says Call a priest and Paul says We’ve been given the ministry of reconciliation and Christ entrusted the message of reconciliation to us Apostles.

Looks pretty Catholic to me. It also looks pretty Unambiguous to me.

James in this passage does not say call a “Priest”. He says to call an “Elder”. These are 2 different words in greek. the terms for elder, bishop, pastor (Shephard) are all used interchangebly in the NT.

 

[Gonzo4Christ]

The non Catholics I know believe in what I call pre-forgiveness, a notion that when you’re saved, all sins are forgiven, past, present and future.

Where does this lead?
It leads to something I’ve NEVER heard a Catholic say, coming from a woman in a discussion about something she knew was a sin but wanted to do it anyway; she was about to divorce her third husband because he “won’t change”.

Exact words here regarding what she knew to be a sin…"It doesn’t matter because I’m already forgiven!

For someone to say that is contrary to what the scriptures teach about what a true follower of Christ really is. That is a very, very dangerous place to be. what she is doing is trampling on the blook of Christ adn using the grace of God to continue to sin! What does Paul say in Romans, " Are we continue to sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

 

[TimothyH]

In Ps 32, David confesses his sin to God alone
g. I believe it was Clement of Alexandria who referred to that Psalm and said that what David did, is what God wants: confession of sin directly to him.

But hey, what does Clement know? There was no AA in his time.

I know nothing about Clement of Alexandria but I know that David confessed his sin orally, to God through Nathan the prophet, as recorded in chapter 12 of 2 Samuel.

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." Nathan answered David: "The LORD on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. (2 Samuel 12:13)

David didn’t confess to God in the privacy of his own heart. David spoke actual words to a living person, a prophet of God.

-Tim-

 

[WCH]

I know nothing about Clement of Alexandria but I know that David confessed his sin orally, to God through Nathan the prophet, as recorded in chapter 12 of 2 Samuel.

Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." Nathan answered David: "The LORD on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. (2 Samuel 12:13)

David didn’t confess to God in the privacy of his own heart. David spoke actual words to a living person, a prophet of God.

-Tim-

What David says in Ps 32 is he confessed his sin to the Lord. He says nothing of confessing sin to Samuel. Who knows what sin David confessed. Do you?

Read Ps 51 also. To whom is David confessing and praying there?

 

[hn160]

You forgot V21! For our sake he made him to be sin(AI) who knew no sin, so that in him we might become(AJ) the righteousness of God.

What was the message of reconciliation? Throughout the New Testament, that message is repent and believe the gospel. We cry out to God for the forgiveness of sins. Being given the message of reconciliation could also mean that we as believers have also been given the ministry of reconciliation. “Go therefore and make disciples” was the command given by Christ to us all. God uses those who proclaim the gospel to reconcile sinners to himself.

This is how The Lutheran Study Bible has it for 2 Cor 5: 17-21:
17 Therefore, if anyone is iin Christ, he is ja new creation.2 kThe old has passed away; behold, the new has come. 18 All this is from God, lwho through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us mthe ministry of reconciliation; 19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling3 the world to himself, nnot counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us mthe message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore, owe are ambassadors for Christ, pGod making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 qFor our sake he made him to be sin rwho knew no sin, so that in him we might become sthe righteousness of God.

and the Study Notes:
5:17 in Christ. See p 1903. new creation. God has redeemed and restored the believer into a new sphere of existence, re-created as a person of faith in Jesus Christ who desires to live in and for Him alone (cf Rm 8:18–23; Eph 2:10). passed away. In Christ, the things of the sinful flesh have died (cf v 14). The believer is under the lordship of Christ.
5:18 All this is from God. Chrys: “Nothing of ourselves. For remission of sins and adoption and unspeakable glory are given to us by Him” (NPNF 1 12:332). reconciled. All people are alienated and cut off from God because of sin and rebellion. Christ’s death on the cross bridges that eternal gap by paying sinful humanity’s just punishment. Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection not only redeemed us but also restored us to fellowship with Him (Col 1:22). “God’s precepts, and God’s true service, are hidden when people hear that only monks are in a state of perfection. True Christian perfection is to fear God from the heart, to have great faith, and to trust that for Christ’s sake we have a God who has been reconciled [2 Corinthians 5:18–19]. It means to ask for and expect from God His help in all things with confident assurance that we are to live according to our calling in life, being diligent in outward good works, serving in our calling. This is where true perfection and true service of God is to be found” (AC XXVII 49–50). ministry of reconciliation. The apostolic ministry extends the benefits of Christ’s reconciling work (cf Jn 20:21; Mt 28:18–20) to individuals, so that when Paul pleads for them to believe in Jesus, it is God’s appeal. As recipients of that grace, God has also called all those who believe to be witnesses of God’s gracious restoration to those who do not yet know Him (cf 4:15).
5:19 in Christ God was. The divinity and humanity of Jesus, though united, remain distinct. “The divine essence is not changed into the human nature. But the two natures, unchanged, are personally united” (FC SD VII 36). reconciling the world. Through Christ’s death, God’s eternal justice was appeased and the whole world was reconciled to Him. Faith receives Christ’s work personally. Unbelief, though, rejects it. entrusting to us. The apostolic ministry is God’s gift to deliver His gracious benefits of forgiveness, life, and salvation through Word and Sacrament (cf Eph 4:11–15; Mt 28:18–20; 1Co 11:23–29).
5:20 ambassadors. Representatives who speak on behalf of the heads of states/countries possess the authority of the one who sends them. The Corinthians then, in challenging Paul’s ambassadorship to them, were in reality challenging Jesus (see Paul’s warning in 6:1). be reconciled. A call to repentance.
5:21 to be sin. Jesus took upon Himself our status and standing before God’s righteous court. He was declared guilty of all the sin and evil in this world. knew no sin. Mankind’s sins were charged to the account of an innocent man (cf Is 53:6). the righteousness of God. See p 1904. “Christ alone is our Righteousness, who is true God and man, because in Him the divine and human natures are personally united with each other” (FC Ep III 1).

 

[ClayPots47]

Some Protestants use Accountability Partners or Pastoral Counselors when they need to unburden themselves of sins, and need assistance in overcoming them. Praying together for forgiveness of their sin(s) is part of the meeting. Many find having access to regular meetings with AP’s or PC’s, gives them assurance that God has forgiven them, much like absolution from the priest gives us Catholics assurance of forgiveness.

I was a patient in Christian affiliated small psychiatric hospital many years ago, and we were encouraged, as part of our overall treatment program, to have a pastoral visit from a clergyman at our church, or with the facilities pastoral counselor, to discuss our spiritual lives and problems with sin. Many suffered from OCD, scrupulosity, anxiety, depression, self-doubt, etc. My parish’s assistant pastor, who was also my confessor, met with me for Confession, Holy Communion and Anointing of the Sick. The facility felt that patients with sin issues weighing on their minds, benefited greatly from these pastoral meetings. The meetings were part of the overall treatment program, they recognized the value of unburdening oneself and receiving reassurance of God’s forgiveness.

So there appear to be options for non-Catholic, non-Orthodox Christians to avail themselves of personal confession of sins to another, and to pray for and be assured of God’s forgiveness. It is not a requirement, nor a sacrament; but an option they can choose to take. Some Christian musicians travel/tour with AP’s or PC’s, to help them stay humble and grounded, and deal with the constant temptations of money, fame, etc. They meet regularly with their AP’s/PC’s to discuss personal sin struggles and pray together for forgiveness and healing.

 

[kbcdac]

Are you speaking for the Catholic church when you deem
Protestants saved by their belief in the Trinity? How is it apparent to you that God “makes do” with a Protestant’s intent? Is that a Catholic teaching? My salvation lies in my FAITH and CONFESSION that Jesus the Christ, son of the living God lived a life without sin, was crucified for my sin (dying in my place) and God raised Him from death to life, that I too can have eternal life in the presence of God. It is an undeserved favor, a gift, God’s grace alone that I am saved. I believe in one God, in three persons, the Trinity whose perfect plan of redemption of man has been performed.
As far as the rite of reconciliation, again, 1 John 2:1,2
1."My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. [knowing at some time they/we would sin, he continues]. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2. And He Himself is the propitiation [atoning sacrifice] for our sins, and not ours only but also for the whole world.
Hebrews 7:25. Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God THROUGH Him, SINCE HE ALWAYS LIVES TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM. 2.
For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27. Who does not need daily as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, [as earthly priests must], FOR THIS HE DID ONCE FOR ALL WHEN HE OFFERED UP HIMSELF.
So although Catholic confession seems a good thing to me, I don’t believe the bible says it is necessary for salvation, that is not scriptural. The Gospel is really not complicated
Many of the things I read on site use the word Protestant rather loosely. It would be
interesting to know how you define Protestants, because I don’t recognize so much of what
you describe. My children went to a Catholic High School. I told a teacher I was not
Catholic, but a Christian. She, a Catholic said, “I am a Christian first.”. Me Too

 

[kbcdac]

Sorry, my reply was to YoungThinkers last post

 

[Young_Thinker]

Are you speaking for the Catholic church when you deem
Protestants saved by their belief in the Trinity? How is it apparent to you that God “makes do” with a Protestant’s intent? Is that a Catholic teaching? My salvation lies in my FAITH and CONFESSION that Jesus the Christ, son of the living God lived a life without sin, was crucified for my sin (dying in my place) and God raised Him from death to life, that I too can have eternal life in the presence of God. It is an undeserved favor, a gift, God’s grace alone that I am saved. I believe in one God, in three persons, the Trinity whose perfect plan of redemption of man has been performed.
As far as the rite of reconciliation, again, 1 John 2:1,2
1."My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. [knowing at some time they/we would sin, he continues]. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2. And He Himself is the propitiation [atoning sacrifice] for our sins, and not ours only but also for the whole world.
Hebrews 7:25. Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God THROUGH Him, SINCE HE ALWAYS LIVES TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM. 2.
For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27. Who does not need daily as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, [as earthly priests must], FOR THIS HE DID ONCE FOR ALL WHEN HE OFFERED UP HIMSELF.
So although Catholic confession seems a good thing to me, I don’t believe the bible says it is necessary for salvation, that is not scriptural. The Gospel is really not complicated
Many of the things I read on site use the word Protestant rather loosely. It would be
interesting to know how you define Protestants, because I don’t recognize so much of what
you describe. My children went to a Catholic High School. I told a teacher I was not
Catholic, but a Christian. She, a Catholic said, “I am a Christian first.”. Me Too

Hello, K.B.C. I am speaking in my opinion as a practicing Catholic. I am happy that you are a serious Christian. Some Catholics (like the schoolteacher you know) make their personal relationship with Christ the primary emphasis of their faith, and others (myself included), while they may love Jesus just as much as the former, consider their whole religious identity and practice to reside in the Catholic Church and consequently might be seen as “Catholics first and Christians second.” When I use the word, “Protestant,” I basically mean any Trinitarian Christian (though some non-Trinitarians, the Mormons for instance, have been classified as Protestants at times) who is not Catholic or Orthodox. As for the quotations from I John and Hebrews, one should note that when a priest hears a confession, celebrates Mass (whose focal point is the Eucharist, not the homily), or participates in any of the other Sacraments, he is in the role of Christ (that is one of reasons for the traditional screen in the confessional- to reduce the priest’s outward individuality so that one might better concentrate on Jesus). And the Sacraments are perfectly valid despite the priest’s own sins. Here is a scripture that has been interpreted in defense of reconciliation (remember that Jesus telling this to the Apostles, who were the first priests and bishops of the Church, after His Resurrection):
John XX: xxii-xxiii
Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
Now, if reconciliation (or any of the other Sacraments, for that matter, all through of which Christ gives the recipient sanctifying grace) are not necessary, why would He say that? Also, please remember that Catholics do not accept *sola scriptura * (“by scripture only”); to us, Church Tradition is just as important as any verse in the Bible. Basically, the Bible came from the Church, not the other way around.
But here is another verse (this time from St. Paul):
II Corinthinians V: xviii
All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[mark_a]

The Church I go to, the pastor stands up in front of the congregation and administers the rite (sacrament) of absolution and confession. In the middle of the rite, the congregation reflects (silent confession to God if you will) on the sins they recall. Then the pastor goes on to say that being an ordained servant of God he now pronounces our sins forgiven in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost and makes the sign of the cross and some of us make the sign of the cross upon ourselves. And if you have a very troublesome sin to confess, you can ask for an individual confession from the pastor.

Thanks for posting!!

 

[mark_a]

Some Protestants use Accountability Partners or Pastoral Counselors when they need to unburden themselves of sins, and need assistance in overcoming them. Praying together for forgiveness of their sin(s) is part of the meeting. Many find having access to regular meetings with AP’s or PC’s, gives them assurance that God has forgiven them, much like absolution from the priest gives us Catholics assurance of forgiveness.

This sure sounds like a slippery slope toward apostolic Christianity to me.

 

[PeterGStanley]

Wouldn’t that mean as well that you could confess your sins to, say, me?

Yes I suppose I could but unfortunately everyone would know what my sins were because you could spread what I said to everybody - your not bound to a vow not to reveal to the world my sins - I prefer a priest who has taken a vow not to reveal what I have confessed.Also I am not confessing to the priest I am confessing my sins to god - the priest is a witness who also offers me absolution - it is a humbling experience between myself and God - not me and the priest.

 

[DElias]

Yes I suppose I could but unfortunately everyone would know what my sins were because you could spread what I said to everybody - your not bound to a vow not to reveal to the world my sins - I prefer a priest who has taken a vow not to reveal what I have confessed.Also I am not confessing to the priest I am confessing my sins to god - the priest is a witness who also offers me absolution - it is a humbling experience between myself and God - not me and the priest.

So this passage would no more empower a priest than me?

 

[PeterGStanley]

Well you know nothing about the sacrament of confession let alone believe in it - could never be trusted with what goes on in a confessional - have no idea how to give absolution or provide penance - nor has the church given you authority to do so - or believe in any of this - so no. I would be a fool if I did.

.Now if you had the authority to do so - actually believed in it - could give absolution and provide proper penance and keep your mouth shut - I would confess to you.

 

[Bluegoat]

Well you know nothing about the sacrament of confession let alone believe in it - could never be trusted with what goes on in a confessional - have no idea how to give absolution or provide penance - nor has the church given you authority to do so - or believe in any of this - so no. I would be a fool if I did.

.

If you were a Christian in the early Church you’d have confessed to the whole congregation. So while there are many advantages to confessing to a priest, I don’t think we can say confessing to a non-priest is improper.

 

[PeterGStanley]

Well if you do its definitely stepping on dangerous ground - I wouldn’t do it.

 

[kbcdac]

Young Thinker:

Some Catholics (like the schoolteacher you know) make their personal relationship with Christ the primary emphasis of their faith, and others (myself included), while they may love Jesus just as much as the former, consider their whole religious identity and practice to reside in the Catholic Church and consequently might be seen as “Catholics first and Christians second.”

Young Thinker, Do you consider Christ the “head” and the Church the “body”? The Church the bride, He the groom? There would be no Church without personal relationship with Jesus.HHis can you divorce the two? I am getting way off topic.
I’ve always understood the ministry of reconciliation to belong to and be a responsibility of all Christians. I have believed it to mean evangelizing. Spreading the Gospel that gives hope to all men, that they all can be reconciled to God through His Son. I read through the thread and we are all quoting the same scriptures to make opposing points.
The Protestants in the main denominations (which does not include Mormons or any other that teach a different Gospel than the one taught by Christ) believe they can confess their sin and ask forgiveness directly from the Father in the name of Jesus. We didn’t earn that
privilege, Christ died to give it to us. That is not an eloquent explanation, but earlier in the
thread it was stated beautifully by others.

When I use the word, “Protestant,” I basically mean any Trinitarian Christian (though some non-Trinitarians, the Mormons for instance, have been classified as Protestants at times) who is not Catholic or Orthodox. As for the quotations from I John and Hebrews, one should note that when a priest hears a confession, celebrates Mass (whose focal point is the Eucharist, not the homily), or participates in any of the other Sacraments, he is in the role of Christ (that is one of reasons for the traditional screen in the confessional- to reduce the priest’s outward individuality so that one might better concentrate on Jesus). And the Sacraments are perfectly valid despite the priest’s own sins. Here is a scripture that has been interpreted in defense of reconciliation (remember that Jesus telling this to the Apostles, who were the first priests and bishops of the Church, after His
Resurrection):

John XX: xxii-xxiii
Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.
Now, if reconciliation (or any of the other Sacraments, for that matter, all through of which Christ gives the recipient sanctifying grace) are not necessary, why would He say that? Also, please remember that Catholics do not accept *sola scriptura * (“by scripture only”); to us, Church Tradition is just as important as any verse in the Bible. Basically, the Bible came from the Church, not the other way around.
But here is another verse (this time from St. Paul):
II Corinthinians V: xviii
All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[kbcdac]

Young Thinker, Do you consider Christ the “head” and the Church the “body”? The Church the bride, He the groom? There would be no Church without personal relationship with Jesus.HHis can you divorce the two? I am getting way off topic.
I’ve always understood the ministry of reconciliation to belong to and be a responsibility of all Christians. I have believed it to mean evangelizing. Spreading the Gospel that gives hope to all men, that they all can be reconciled to God through His Son. I read through the thread and we are all quoting the same scriptures to make opposing points.
The Protestants in the main denominations (which does not include Mormons or any other that teach a different Gospel than the one taught by Christ) believe they can confess their sin and ask forgiveness directly from the Father in the name of Jesus. We didn’t earn that
privilege, Christ died to give it to us. That is not an eloquent explanation, but earlier in the
thread it was stated beautifully by others.

 

[DElias]

Well if you do its definitely stepping on dangerous ground - I wouldn’t do it.

It would seem that if the Bible says we can, then it would be hardly dangerous as long as we take it seriously. The real danger would come in rebuking what has been written.