Catholics have the fullness of truth. Protestants have part of the truth! What does this mean?

[Pretty_Wings]

To the Baptizing question. I see baptism as a outward sign to people that you are saved. It doesn’t change your inside. I think a person should get baptism only when they know Jesus. I know so many people who got baptize as a little child because there parents made them or because of tradition. They didn’t know who God or Jesus was. If a person is truly saved or course they will want to be baptize. You have to repent and believe before you are baptize.

 

[Pretty_Wings]

I also been taught that the church is the people of God. The church is in you. Its not a building. A building is just a building. Its the people that make a church. God’s people.

The words one true church is not in the Bible.

 

[1voice]

Remember the Thessalonians 2-2:14
Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle
as you can see, he is talking about oral or written word, so can we discount traditions of the church?

… An epistle is another word for a letter … ‘Word’ refers to preaching. Paul’s focus was on the truth… not the method of delivery. The information … no matter how it is delivered … must line up with the Bible. The traditions that Paul refers to are the moral and spiritual instructions of Jesus.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Not only this but when we talk the Apostles and those who became their students, here also the Truth is written for example with Ignatius of Antioch. Who in 104-AD before he was feed to the Lions in Rome left his letters which defined and named the Catholic Chirch and the church structure of its elect. Among others like Irenaeus of Lyons. This are direct students of Christs Apostles and so on.

So we can’t reach today and say these elect were wrong, we can say through time mistakes have been made, But this leaves us no reason to abandon the truth. It confirms the truth.

God Bless, Gary

 

[Nicea325]

I also been taught that the church is the people of God. The church is in you. Its not a building. A building is just a building. Its the people that make a church. God’s people.

The words one true church is not in the Bible.

Yeah and I too can provide a score of terms not mentioned in the Bible. Show me where the word ‘infinite’ is used to describe God? As for the word one 'true" church is not in the Bible? And why? Because founded only ONE church and Jesus did not need to explicitly say such a term. Jesus did not found thousands of “Bible-only” denominations. Last but not least,whatever gave you idea Catholics teach the church is merely a building?

BTW: I am curious where Jesus taught everything must be said explicitly in the Bible,if you believe the Bible is the final say so?

 

[Nicea325]

To the Baptizing question. I see baptism as a outward sign to people that you are saved. It doesn’t change your inside. I think a person should get baptism only when they know Jesus. I know so many people who got baptize as a little child because there parents made them or because of tradition. They didn’t know who God or Jesus was. If a person is truly saved or course they will want to be baptize. You have to repent and believe before you are baptize.

Once again you are wrong. Scripture teaches once one is saved,then go ahead and get baptized? As for tradition? Tell me something, did Jesus’ parents not have Jesus circumcised because he was an infant and did not ‘know’ God? No where does Jesus teach an "intellectual’ decision is required to be baptized. No offense,you follow a novel belief which has no ties in ancient Christianity.

 

[GaryTaylor]

And thats not say that the Church didn’t come “before” the Bible. The teachings were going on way before scripture.

God Bless, Gary

 

[Pretty_Wings]

Once again you are wrong. Scripture teaches once one is saved,then go ahead and get baptized? As for tradition? Tell me something,** did Jesus’ parents not have Jesus circumcised because he was an infant and did not ‘know’ God?** No where does Jesus teach an "intellectual’ decision is required to be baptized. No offense,you follow a novel belief which has no ties in ancient Christianity.

Jesus was Jewish. Jews were required to listen to the law. We aren’t Jewish. I’m not at least. The Bible do say believe in be baptize that is in Matthew. The other scripture says repent and be baptize. If you don’t have faith there is no reason to get baptized. That’s in vain. Jesus didn’t like tradition, he would rather us listen to God. He got on the Pharisees about tradition.

Jesus is against all religion that makes rules about how to get to God, and ends up keeping people away from God.God wants your heart. He wants your life. He doesn’t want your performance, your ritual, your adherence to “religious” rules.

 

[Nicea325]

Jesus was Jewish. Jews were required to listen to the law. We aren’t Jewish. I’m not at least. The Bible do say believe in be baptize that is in Matthew. The other scripture says repent and be baptize. If you don’t have faith there is no reason to get baptized. That’s in vain. Jesus didn’t like tradition, he would rather us listen to God. He got on the Pharisees about tradition.

Jesus is against all religion that makes rules about how to get to God, and ends up keeping people away from God.God wants your heart. He wants your life. He doesn’t want your performance, your ritual, your adherence to “religious” rules.

Well apparently you do not know the practices and beliefs of the early Christians. Baptism is the Christian equivalent of circumcision, or “the circumcision of Christ”: “In him you were also circumcised with . . . the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead” (Col. 2:11–12). Thus, like circumcision, baptism can be given to children as well as adults. The difference is that circumcision was powerless to save (Gal. 5:6, 6:15), but **"aptism . . . now saves you" (1 Pet. 3:21).

Likewise, the first converts were adults,so logically they had to believe;however,the mistake you make is the belief one has to ‘know’ Jesus to be saved or baptized. In addition, on the other hand, nowhere do we read of children raised in believing households reaching the age of reason and then being baptized. The only explicit baptism accounts in the Bible involve converts from Judaism or paganism.

No offense,but you need to study history about the early Christians. As for tradition? You are also wrong. Jesus didn’t hate all traditions,only those that were against God.**

 

[Pretty_Wings]

Well apparently you do not know the practices and beliefs of the early Christians. Baptism is the Christian equivalent of circumcision, or “the circumcision of Christ”: “In him you were also circumcised with . . . the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead” (Col. 2:11–12). Thus, like circumcision, baptism can be given to children as well as adults. The difference is that circumcision was powerless to save (Gal. 5:6, 6:15), but "aptism . . . now saves you" (1 Pet. 3:21).

Likewise, the first converts were adults,so logically they had to believe**;however,the mistake you make is the belief one has to ‘know’ Jesus to be saved or baptized**. In addition, on the other hand, nowhere **do we read of children raised in believing households reaching the age of reason and then being baptized. **The only explicit baptism accounts in the Bible involve converts from Judaism or paganism.

No offense,but you need to study history about the early Christians. As for tradition? You are also wrong. Jesus didn’t hate all traditions,only those that were against God.

Thats not a mistake. Its in the Bible. The Bible clearly says to repent than be baptized.

Who said a child reaching the age of reason to be baptized. I said when they are saved. When they know God. If a 5 year old knows God than go ahead and get baptized. If not don’t.

Christ was over thirty years old when he chose to be baptized. Baptism is never referred to as a replacement for circumcision. In fact, the two are never compared at all in the Scriptures. (If baptism replaced circumcision, why did the Council at Jerusalem fail to tell the Gentiles that they did not need to circumcise BECAUSE circumcision was now replaced by baptism?) Those in the Bible who are being baptized are all baptized after hearing and publicly professing belief in the gospel.

 

[Nicea325]

Thats not a mistake. Its in the Bible. The Bible clearly says to repent than be baptized.

Who said a child reaching the age of reason to be baptized. I said when they are saved. When they know God. If a 5 year old knows God than go ahead and get baptized. If not don’t.

Christ was over thirty years old when he chose to be baptized. Baptism is never referred to as a replacement for circumcision. In fact, the two are never compared at all in the Scriptures. (If baptism replaced circumcision, why did the Council at Jerusalem fail to tell the Gentiles that they did not need to circumcise BECAUSE circumcision was now replaced by baptism?) Those in the Bible who are being baptized are all baptized after hearing and publicly professing belief in the gospel.

I know what you said is correct and its in the Bible;but where you are wrong is the belief that it is the NORM! That is where you are wrong and like I have said before,you apparently have not studied early Christianity. Whoever said baptism and circumcision were being compared? By the way, I am still waiting for you to tell me where scripture teaches the Word of God is binded to the written word-alone? Finally,no where does scripture teach everything must be said explicitly or else it is false.

 

[St_Francis]

By studying the word, and by the Holy Spirit. I don’t place emphasize on Baptism. I don’t think Protestants as a whole put big emphasize on Baptisms.(except for well Baptist) I don’t think that is the most important thing. I think it is important but whether a person get baptized as a baby or 5 or 20 years old is up to them. I think they should get baptized when they accept Jesus Christ as there savior. I believe baptism is a outward sign to show other people you have the faith but it doesn’t do anything for the inside of you. The only important thing is to believe in God and Jesus and to live a Holy life.

We believe much more about baptism: we believe that it washes away original and subsequent repented sins (for those old enough), and imparts grace, help from God, in the baptized spul’s walk towards Him.

We believe that those who die without baptism cannot enter the Kingdom of God (altho we do believe in baptisms of desire and of blood, which can only become operable upon death). If an innocent dies without having received any form of baptism, he or she cannot enter into Heaven, altho having no personal sin we hope that they will not suffer the pains of Hell.

So an assembly of those who follow the Bible inatead of Christ demotes baptism to a merely symbolic act, and then people end up not being baptized becuase they don’t think it is important Or they do not baptize their babies. Or they leave to form or join a church which doesn’t perform baptism at all.

Don’t you think it is vitally important to find out the truth? If someone told you that there was a man just outside who was giving away doughnuts or something else that you wanted, wouldn’t you go and check it out?

So consider the state of your eternal soul. Do you not want to spend eternity with Jesus? Don’t you think you should investigate the best way to do that?

 

[Pretty_Wings]

We believe much more about baptism: we believe that it washes away original and subsequent repented sins (for those old enough), and imparts grace, help from God, in the baptized spul’s walk towards Him.

We believe that those who die without baptism cannot enter the Kingdom of God (altho we do believe in baptisms of desire and of blood, which can only become operable upon death). If an innocent dies without having received any form of baptism, he or she cannot enter into Heaven, altho having no personal sin we hope that they will not suffer the pains of Hell.

So an assembly of those who follow the Bible inatead of Christ demotes baptism to a merely symbolic act, and then people end up not being baptized becuase they don’t think it is important Or they do not baptize their babies. Or they leave to form or join a church which doesn’t perform baptism at all.

Don’t you think it is vitally important to find out the truth? If someone told you that there was a man just outside who was giving away doughnuts or something else that you wanted, wouldn’t you go and check it out?

So consider the state of your eternal soul. Do you not want to spend eternity with Jesus? Don’t you think you should investigate the best way to do that?

We believe much more about baptism: we believe that it washes away original and subsequent repented sins (for those old enough), and imparts grace, help from God, in the baptized spul’s walk towards Him

The Bible says repent and be baptized. If a person haven’t repented than being baptized is useless. Also how can it washes away sin, only God can save you not Baptism. Also if a person is not saved that person is still a sinner, baptism is not going to change that.

We believe that those who die without baptism cannot enter the Kingdom of God (altho we do believe in baptisms of desire and of blood, which can only become operable upon death). If an innocent dies without having received any form of baptism, he or she cannot enter into Heaven, altho having no personal sin we hope that they will not suffer the pains of Hell

I believe you can be saved without being baptized. But if you are a Christian than of course you would get baptized. I don’t think I know a Christian that is a true Christian who haven’t been baptized. They don’t do it for Salvation, for they already have that, they just do it because God would like them too, But they don’t think it can gain you salvation.

So an assembly of those who follow the Bible inatead of Christ demotes baptism to a merely symbolic act

We follow Christ. We believe the Bible is all we need to know about Christ. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

and then people end up not being baptized becuase they don’t think it is important

Christians get baptized but after they repent. We think Baptism is important but repentance is more important.

Or they do not baptize their babies.

No we don’t baptize babys. We wait until the child is saved. Sometimes the child never gets saved.

Don’t you think it is vitally important to find out the truth?

Yes, that is why I study and read the Bible any chance I get. I research what I don’t understand. I pray to God daily.

So consider the state of your eternal soul. Do you not want to spend eternity with Jesus?

Yes, and I believe I will.

Don’t you think you should investigate the best way to do that?

I already know the way. Having Faith and living a Holy life.

 

[SDA1]

Why does the catholic church teach baptism of babies who obviously cannot make decisions for themselves?

Why was the sabbath changed to sunday?

Why do you have to confess to a priest when Jesus is the only mediator and intercessor?

What authority does the pope have? A mere sinful man ( all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. )

why does the bible teach of people going to heaven? Jesus is coming again to take his people to heaven 1000 years. If people are going to heaven after they die. Who is jesus coming to resurrect? And the dead in chrish shall rise first…

Fullness of truth? I think not!

 

[St_Francis]

The Bible says repent and be baptized. If a person haven’t repented than being baptized is useless. Also how can it washes away sin, only God can save you not Baptism. Also if a person is not saved that person is still a sinner, baptism is not going to change that.

John 3:5, unless you are born again of water…

It is true that baptism will not save a person who then goes out and sins. But the person who terns his back on baptism is committing a mortal sin–we say that his act is a mortal sin, but God alone can judge the culpability of the person committing the sin.

I believe you can be saved without being baptized. But if you are a Christian than of course you would get baptized. I don’t think I know a Christian that is a true Christian who haven’t been baptized. They don’t do it for Salvation, for they already have that, they just do it because God would like them too, But they don’t think it can gain you salvation.

How can you know they are saved when they are still alive? Suppose they go out and reject Christ-- would they still be able to enter Heaven?

We follow Christ. We believe the Bible is all we need to know about Christ. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

The word Word used here was translated from the Greek Logos, which can also be translated as Thought. It signifies Christ, not the Bible, which had not been compiled, and parts of which may not have yet been written. It is being used in the same way the Christ said of Himself, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Christians get baptized but after they repent. We think Baptism is important but repentance is more important.

Which do you think is more important when making bread: yeast or flour? It’s not that one is more impprtant than the other; both are vital to the bread.

In the same way, both repentance and baptism are important, but we need to repent all of our lives, because we need to repent all of our sins. Baptism is how we get the help we need from God for a fuller repentance and to help us avoid sin.

No we don’t baptize babys. We wait until the child is saved. Sometimes the child never gets saved.

And how do you know this is correct? Other Protestants baptize babies, and they too have spent time and prayer studying the Scriptures. Your church seems to have overlooked the baptism of “the entire hoisehold” in Acts.

Yes, that is why I study and read the Bible any chance I get. I research what I don’t understand. I pray to God daily.

That’s wonderful Have you read 2 Peter 2:20, 21? OrActs 8:31?

The first warns against private interpretation, the second is when the Ethiopian asked Peter how he cpuld understand what he was reading if no one explained it?

The very fact that there are several different ideas about baptism among those who base their thinking on the Bible and not on the pillar and ground of truth shows tbat their reliance on the system of reading the Bible and hoping their understanding comes from the Holy Spirit doesn’t work, because if it did work, everyone wpuld have the same idea, right?

Yes, and I believe I will.

And if you are wrong?

I already know the way. Having Faith and living a Holy life.

 

[St_Francis]

Pretty Wings… I missed a bit

I already know the way. Having Faith and living a Holy life.

John 6:54 Unless you eat of My Flesh and drink of My Blood, you will not have life within you…

 

[Pretty_Wings]

Pretty Wings… I missed a bit

John 6:54 Unless you eat of My Flesh and drink of My Blood, you will not have life within you…

I believe that. I put that under living a Holy life. My church have communion. God didn’t say how many times to have it, he just said do it and do it in remembrance of me. We usually have it every 1st Sunday.

 

[Incomplete]

Pretty Wings,

The Baptism question: what do you make of whole households being baptized? Scripture doesn’t say whole households except infants, and in those days, there is no reason to believe there weren’t infants. And I highly doubt that infants understood about God.

But this is a digression. You originally asked about fullness of truth. The point about baptism is not to find out what you believe, but to ask, if the Holy Spirit leads us to truth when we read the Bible and ask, how do you reconcile the fact that some believe baptism is vital and some don’t?

I pray a lot, as do others you are debating with. Yet many of us disagree with you. How do you know that the Holy Spirit is leading you and not those who disagree?

I would also question your statement that Protestants agree on the basics for salvation. They don’t. Don’t just go to other churches and listen to sermons; look at what they actually believe. In fact, a friend of mine who doesn’t believe in the necessity nature of baptism let her former protestant church because they saw it as essential. Both were protestant churches, and they couldn’t agree on this, though one saw it as essential to salvation.

You brought up the creation story, and said Protestants take it literally. I know many who don’t. Which Protestants are right?

And why do you not take the words Jesus said about Eucharist to be literal? How do you know when to take the words literally and when not to, (I’m assuming you don’t take it all literally.) Did you know that some protestants, some very faith-filled praying protestants, DO take “This is my body” literally, and others do not?

So how do you know who the Holy Spirit is guiding, or do you contend that all are answered differently, that there are different truths?

 

[Pretty_Wings]

John 3:5, unless you are born again of water…

It is true that baptism will not save a person who then goes out and sins. But the person who terns his back on baptism is committing a mortal sin–we say that his act is a mortal sin, but God alone can judge the culpability of the person committing the sin.

I think we agree that Baptism is important. I just believe a person have to be saved first than get Baptized.

How can you know they are saved when they are still alive?

The Bible tells us what we need to do to be saved. I think its quite clear imo.

Suppose they go out and reject Christ-- would they still be able to enter Heaven?

No. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

The word Word used here was translated from the Greek Logos, which can also be translated as Thought. It signifies Christ, not the Bible, which had not been compiled, and parts of which may not have yet been written. It is being used in the same way the Christ said of Himself, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Thats your opinion. I’m not mad.

In the same way, both repentance and baptism are important, but we need to repent all of our lives, because we need to repent all of our sins. Baptism is how we get the help we need from God for a fuller repentance and to help us avoid sin.

I believe we should accept Christ into our hearts before we are baptize. We should turn from our wicked ways before baptism.

And how do you know this is correct? Other Protestants baptize babies, and they too have spent time and prayer studying the Scriptures. Your church seems to have overlooked the baptism of “the entire hoisehold” in Acts.

I know Methodist do it but they see it as symbolic like I do.

That’s wonderful Have you read 2 Peter 2:20, 21? OrActs 8:31?

Yes and Yes

The first warns against private interpretation, the second is when the Ethiopian asked Peter how he cpuld understand what he was reading if no one explained it?

A lot of what I know isn’t from me, but my church. I learned though my church. As I wanted to get deeper in the word I started to not just read it but to study it. Also the Bible tells us to study to show ourselves approved unto God. So I study.

The very fact that there are several different ideas about baptism among those who base their thinking on the Bible

I really don’t think it is. I think all us would agree Christians should be baptism. We just defer on when to do it.

and not on the pillar and ground of truth

Who says? I believe all churches that teach the word of God is the pillar and ground of the truth. 1 Timothy chapter 3:15. “But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.” Are you saying my church isn’t the church of the living God, even though Miracles and God presences be there every time we have church?

shows tbat their reliance on the system of reading the Bible and hoping their understanding comes from the Holy Spirit doesn’t work, because if it did work, everyone wpuld have the same idea, right?

The Holy Spirit is never wrong. The Bible says the Holy Spirit knows the mind of God. (1 Corinthians 2:10-13) So you would think that everyone who has the Holy Spirit would interpreted the Bible correctly but that isn’t the case. Not everyone who possesses the Holy Spirit actually listens to the Holy Spirit. one reason different people have different interpretations of the Bible is simply that some do not listen to the the Holy Spirit. Its not because we need a Pope to tell us what we can clearly read.

Some people value tradition than the Bible. If tradition and the Bible is in conflict than they usually go with tradition.

On some issues that isn’t really that important, the teaching of Scripture is not clear, and this naturally leads to different interpretations. example, we have no direct bible command on how many time to take communion or the style of music to be played. Christians can have differing interpretations of the passages concerning these minor issues.

So its not that the Holy Ghost is not capable of doing its job, its just that not some people listen to the Holy Ghost all the time. The Holy Spirit isn’t going to make you do something. Also sometimes churches hold more value on tradition than scripture.

And if you are wrong?

The Bible is clear on what you need to do to be saved.

 

[Incomplete]

The Bible is clear on what you need to do to be saved.

Then why do prayer-fiilled people disagree?