Catholics have the fullness of truth. Protestants have part of the truth! What does this mean?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Pretty_Wings
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Pretty_Wings said:
So its not that the Holy Ghost is not capable of doing its job, its just that not some people listen to the Holy Ghost all the time. The Holy Spirit isn’t going to make you do something. Also sometimes churches hold more value on tradition than scripture.
Click to expand...
So when groups of people who pray and who love God with all their hearts disagree about Scripture interpretation, how do we know who is listening to the Holy Spirit and who is not?
 
The Baptism question: what do you make of whole households being baptized? Scripture doesn’t say whole households except infants, and in those days, there is no reason to believe there weren’t infants.
Click to expand...
Just because a whole household of people got baptized doesn’t mean there was infants. Millions of people live in the world without infants.
And I highly doubt that infants understood about God.
Click to expand...
Exactly. They don’t understood about God. The Bible clearly says all those that got baptized in the household believed.
But this is a digression. You originally asked about fullness of truth. The point about baptism is not to find out what you believe, but to ask, if the Holy Spirit leads us to truth when we read the Bible and ask, how do you reconcile the fact that some believe baptism is vital and some don’t?
Click to expand...
I think we all believe Baptism is vital.
I pray a lot, as do others you are debating with. Yet many of us disagree with you. How do you know that the Holy Spirit is leading you and not those who disagree?
Click to expand...
The Holy Spirit? I thought Catholics listen to the Pope/Church for final authority.
I would also question your statement that Protestants agree on the basics for salvation. They don’t.
Click to expand...
I think we all believe in John 3:16. Also I know Protestant general definition, But what I might I consider Protestant might be different from what you might consider Protestant. A lot of Churches I put on the Catholic side.
Don’t just go to other churches and listen to sermons; look at what they actually believe. In fact, a friend of mine who doesn’t believe in the necessity nature of baptism let her former protestant church because they saw it as essential. Both were protestant churches, and they couldn’t agree on this, though one saw it as essential to salvation.
Click to expand...
That is why you have to study the Bible for yourself and see what it says. Not just read but study. A lot of people can say foolish things. I believe if she was a true Christian should have got Baptize. It might not be necessary to go to Heaven but it is a outward sign of your faith.
You brought up the creation story, and said Protestants take it literally. I know many who don’t. Which Protestants are right?
Click to expand...
Really? What churches? Like I said what you might consider Protestant I might not. Also what do the Creation have to do with your salvation? As long as you believe God is the creator of this world than that is alright. If Eve ate a apple or a orange is not important. Also whether God created the world in 6 days or a day is a 1000 years isn’t really important to me either. Whatever God did, he created it.
And why do you not take the words Jesus said about Eucharist to be literal? How do you know when to take the words literally and when not to, (I’m assuming you don’t take it all literally.) Did you know that some protestants, some very faith-filled praying protestants, DO take “This is my body” literally, and others do not?
Click to expand...
By Eucharist, I’m not familiar with that word, I guess you mean Communion. Yes I do know that some take it literal and others take it symbolical. But at the end of it all they all take the communion and do it in remembrance which is the important thing.
So how do you know who the Holy Spirit is guiding, or do you contend that all are answered differently, that there are different truths?
Click to expand...
Good question. The Bible tells us to know Gods word*(The Bible)* for ourselves because there are a lot of false teaching. So reading and studying the Bible, Praying. But people can be deceiving, they can trick you.

I believe there is one truth. Which is found in the Bible. I know who God is. I know who Jesus is. I know I am saved. I know if I do sin, I can repent.
 
Pretty_Wings said:
Just because a whole household of people got baptized doesn’t mean there was infants. Millions of people live in the world without infants.

Exactly. They don’t understood about God. The Bible clearly says all those that got baptized in the household believed.

I think we all believe Baptism is vital.

The Holy Spirit? I thought Catholics listen to the Pope/Church for final authority.

I think we all believe in John 3:16. Also I know Protestant general definition, But what I might I consider Protestant might be different from what you might consider Protestant. A lot of Churches I put on the Catholic side.

That is why you have to study the Bible for yourself and see what it says. Not just read but study. A lot of people can say foolish things. I believe if she was a true Christian should have got Baptize. It might not be necessary to go to Heaven but it is a outward sign of your faith.

Really? What churches? Like I said what you might consider Protestant I might not. Also what do the Creation have to do with your salvation? As long as you believe God is the creator of this world than that is alright. If Eve ate a apple or a orange is not important. Also whether God created the world in 6 days or a day is a 1000 years isn’t really important to me either. Whatever God did, he created it.

By Eucharist, I’m not familiar with that word, I guess you mean Communion. Yes I do know that some take it literal and others take it symbolical. But at the end of it all they all take the communion and do it in remembrance which is the important thing.

Good question. The Bible tells us to know Gods word*(The Bible)* for ourselves because there are a lot of false teaching. So reading and studying the Bible, Praying. But people can be deceiving, they can trick you.

I believe there is one truth. Which is found in the Bible. I know who God is. I know who Jesus is. I know I am saved. I know if I do sin, I can repent.
Click to expand...
As to your first point, before birth control, there were a LOT more babies. The point is, you don’t know. There might well have been infants. Show me where it says that all who got baptized in the household understood about God. I’m open to having missed that.

But no, everyone doesn’t believe Baptism is vital. A very close Protestant friend of mine doesn’t, nor do most of those she worships with.

Believe it or not, Catholics also seek answers through the Holy Spirt. We just don’t believe that we are always capable of knowing everything that way. Because it’s not like the Holy Spirit whispers clearly in everyone’s ears. If He did, we wouldn’t have Biblical disagreements.

If you think John 3:16 is all that is essential for salvation, you don’t need the Baptism you claim to need. In fact, you don’t need anything but that one verse in the Bible. You only need belief. Which contradicts when Jesus was talking about the final judgement and told those who clothed the naked and fed the hungry that they were welcome into heaven, and the rest weren’t.

Where do you get the authority to decide which Protetstant churches are, in reality, Catholic? What if the people in that church think they are protestant? (This may sound like it was said in anger. It’s not. I just don’t know how else to word it.)

I have studied the Bible. My priest, believe it or not, has studied. He even knows languages such as Greek to help with interpretation. He even knows history of the times and customs that are so important to interpretation. He prays an awful lot. In fact, our Pope is also well studied. I am pretty positive he’s studied the Bible a lot more than you. And I’m pretty sure he prays tons and tons. Why is the Holy Spirit not guiding people like that.

But that wasn’t my point when I said don’t judge beliefs by a service you attend. My point was that your claim that you can go to all sorts of protestant churches and find the same beliefs. I would contend (by experience) that this is not true.

I have two non-denominational friends who don’t take the creation story literally. Both go to different churches. Neither would consider themselves Catholic, no matter what you might believe of them. In fact, the church one goes to is rather anti-Catholic. And I brought it up because you said that Protestants take the Bible literally (and you brought up the creation story), that Catholics don’t, and that’s why you don’t have problems with interpretation. But that’s not true either.

As far as taking communion literally or not, in your interpretation the only thing that is important is whether it is done in remembrance. But Catholics would point to Scripture that contradicts this. But that’s even beside the point. Because your original post is about why Catholics claim to have the fullness of truth. We would say fullness means just that, fullness. You seem to think fullness means it doesn’t matter if we disagree on things, that we can’t know all truth, even though Jesus said He would send the Holy Spirit so we COULD know all truth.

You believe there is one truth to be found in the Bible. Lots of people would agree. But, using the Bible, praying for guidance from the Holy Spirit, they still can’t agree on that truth. So as you have been asked, when there are things you think are essential for salvation and others who also study the Bible disagree, how do you know who’s right?
 
Pretty_Wings said:
I don’t think people disagree with John 3:16 and living a Holy life.
Click to expand...
But my point was that you said the Bible is pretty clear on what is needed to be saved. But people, prayer-filled people truly seeking God, disagree on what is essential for salvation.
 
The Bible brought me back to the Catholic Church and while some are probably waiting for verses I will have to disappoint you by not providing any since the Bible didn’t influence me by way of interpretation of certain verses but by its nature and characteriatics.

Take sola scripture which proposes that the Bible is the sole authority on all matters pertaining to Faith and Morals. One of the main problems I had with this was that the Bible didnt have a list of what scriptures make up the Bible! How can I profess the Bible to be the Written Word of God if the Bible cant even give authority of itself? On who’s authority then do I profess this? If not by the Bible then how can it be the sole authority? If its not the sole authority then sola scripture is a contradiction and therefore a FALSE doctrine.

Another big thing was if I believe the Bible is the Written Word of God then I’m acknowledging that the scriptures were written by man through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and that by this same Holy Spirit these men were protected from error. Now correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t this then mean that the writers of the Scriptures exercised infallibility and that the Scriptures themselves are the product of an infallible Church? Wouldn’t it then be hypocritical of me to profess the Bible as the Written Word of God while denying the infallibility of the Church?

Great thing is there is only one Church that claims to have this mark of infallibility so this made my journey alot quicker since all of the other Churches denied the existance of this indentifying mark of the True Church.

Anyway these things and more lead me back home and I’m glad I’m home.
 
Pretty_Wings said:
I believe that. I put that under living a Holy life. My church have communion. God didn’t say how many times to have it, he just said do it and do it in remembrance of me. We usually have it every 1st Sunday.
Click to expand...
And is what you have the true Flesh and Blood of Christ?
 
1voice said:
“Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, I am there in the midst of them”… Is this the true flesh and blood of Christ?
Click to expand...
Do you see the true Flesh and Blood of Christ at those times?
 
The fact that Saint Francis and 1voice or debating verses from the scriptures clearly demonstrates the need for a visible Church (authority) to instruct the faithful (Matthew 18:17.)
 
I think we agree that Baptism is important. I just** believe **a person have to be saved first than get Baptized
Click to expand...
You believe? Explain,how does a person with severe mental deficiencies capable of believing,then being baptized?
 
Pretty_Wings said:
I think it does. Where I’m from the Bible is all we need. We don’t see why the Pope is necessary. If we don’t understand something in the Bible than we just pray to God.
Click to expand...
then how is it that two people come to completely different conclusions when interpreting scripture? Surely they both can’t be right? How can you know what is Truth?

For Catholics we have Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and Sacred Teaching Authority (magisterium). It is a 3 legged stool. If you take any one leg away the stool will tip over.
 
1voice said:
“Blessed are those that have not seen… yet believe.”
… Jesus
Click to expand...
Christ said that we have to eat of His Flesh and drink of His Blood in order to have lofe within us.

When you get together with one or more people, God is there in your midst, but is He there is a form that can be eaten and drunk of?
 
Pretty_Wings said:
Who said that?

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish [ought] from it,” Deut. 4:2- How much plain can it be?

John 1:1 makes the status of the word of God equal to God Himself.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” - In the beginning was the word. In the beginning was God. The Word was God in the beginning. The Word was always there.The Word*(The Bible)* is God.God is above all and the final say so, so therefore the Bible is the final say so.
Click to expand...
The Word is not the Bible. The Word is Jesus. The Word was made flesh not printed.
 
Pretty_Wings said:
The Bible says repent and be baptized. If a person haven’t repented than being baptized is useless. Also how can it washes away sin, only God can save you not Baptism. Also if a person is not saved that person is still a sinner, baptism is not going to change that.

Jesus was Baptized. What sin do you suppose he had to repent of to then be Baptized?
Click to expand...
 
St_Francis said:
Christ said that we have to eat of His Flesh and drink of His Blood in order to have lofe within us.

When you get together with one or more people, God is there in your midst, but is He there is a form that can be eaten and drunk of?
Click to expand...
Then when anyone does either … Jesus keeps his promise
.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top