Catholics have the fullness of truth. Protestants have part of the truth! What does this mean?

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This doesn’t explain why Saint Paul tells us if we dont descern the Body and Blood of our Lord and recieve unworthly the bread and wine in communion then we are guilty of our Lords body and Blood. Doesn’t make sense if communion is just a symbol.
You folks are completely misunderstanding me.
I do not disagree with you. I believe what you believe and I understand, same as you do, what Paul is saying.

In addition…
The context of the New Testament shows clearly that Jesus equated the consuming his word with consuming his flesh.
I am simply saying that the Bible clearly states that consuming the words of the Bible (in the right spirit) is also consuming Christ himself. In fact, that is how we grow as Christians. "Be transformed through the renewing of your mind by the washing of the word’. and… ‘If you obey my words you will know the truth ( by experiencing the results) and that truth (that you see the results of applying) will set you free’. It is the key to ‘become perfect… even as your Father in heaven is perfect’ … and becoming one of "the just that live by faith’

What you call ‘Holy Communion’ is also a way that Jesus established to partake of him. Just as Baptism is physical action with a spiritual consequence. Receiving Communion is receiving Christ.
My other point, stated in one of the posts up there, is that Jesus clearly stated that ‘anyone’ that consumed bread and wine with the heart felt intention of doing it in memory of Jesus … is partaking of his body and blood. "Do this in memory of me’. … they are entering into the new and ever lating covenant.
 
Well… you demonstrate here that you have mastered the forceful delivery of 1 or 2 Catholic cliches … but not much else.😉
I guess that you don’t have an actual response to what he posted, then.
 
St Francis: ‘I guess that you don’t have an actual response to what he posted, then.’

1voice: He made a standard generic statement that assumes the high ground with no real effort involved. Offhandedly saying that you own the truth holds no water.
I called it what it was.🤷
 
as a cradle Catholic, I enjoy watching the show THE JOURNEY HOME on EWTN on Monday nights. Many of the converts that come into the Catholic Faith are drawn to the Sacraments, especially the most beautiful of the sacraments: The Holy Eucharist. I would think some Protestants would feel something is missing from their faith tradition…something that was there but isn’t there NOW.

Read the Early Church Fathers like Saint Justin Martyr. Read the book the Mass of the Early Christians by Mike Aquilana to see how the early christians worshipped. Then attend a Catholic Mass as an obeserver (no receiving communion) and you’ll see that the Mass is very reverent and focrused on Christ,
 
Take the chip off you shoulder.😉

If I’ve heard it once I’ve heard it 100 times… Bible quotes are only acceptable in this forum when used by Catholics. People that are not Catholic lack the depth to make a point unless they agree with you.

If you get offended when someone challenges a typically Catholic generic response… feel free.

Originally Posted by guanophore:
Yes, but this is not all that was taught by the Apostles about Life. Catholics include all of it, no just picking and choosing certain verses.

Saying that “this was not all that was taught by the Apostles about life” is a true statement. No argument there. … Saying that ‘Catholics include all of it’ implies that there is something to add that will correct the Bible verses that I quoted. All I did in that post was quote the verses that said that Jesus’ flesh is his word as well as life and light… He seems to disagree with that but presents nothing other than to say that there is more to it than that. That is not much of a rebuttal.
 
St Francis: ‘I guess that you don’t have an actual response to what he posted, then.’

1voice: He made a standard generic statement that assumes the high ground with no real effort involved. Offhandedly saying that you own the truth holds no water.
I called it what it was.🤷
I’m sorry, I posted hastily which was why i deleted the post within a few minutes.
 
You folks are completely misunderstanding me.
I do not disagree with you. I believe what you believe and I understand, same as you do, what Paul is saying.
Apparently you do not believe what we do, as you go on to compare Eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood to reading the Bible, a book which had not been written at the time Christ said what He said.
In addition…
The context of the New Testament shows clearly that Jesus equated the consuming his word with consuming his flesh.
I am simply saying that the Bible clearly states that consuming the words of the Bible (in the right spirit) is also consuming Christ himself. In fact, that is how we grow as Christians. "Be transformed through the renewing of your mind by the washing of the word’. and… ‘If you obey my words you will know the truth ( by experiencing the results) and that truth (that you see the results of applying) will set you free’. It is the key to ‘become perfect… even as your Father in heaven is perfect’ … and becoming one of "the just that live by faith’
It is very difficult to see the logic behind what you are saying, how the verses you have cited equate to doing something which caused many of Christ’s followers to leave, and which was said by St Paul to bring condemnation upon the person when done withoit recognizing Christ within the materials of the sacrament.
What you call ‘Holy Communion’ is also a way that Jesus established to partake of him. Just as Baptism is physical action with a spiritual consequence. Receiving Communion is receiving Christ.
It is not at all the same. Receiving Christ is not the same as eating His Flesh and drinking His Blood.
My other point, stated in one of the posts up there, is that Jesus clearly stated that ‘anyone’ that consumed bread and wine with the heart felt intention of doing it in memory of Jesus … is partaking of his body and blood. "Do this in memory of me’. … they are entering into the new and ever lating covenant.
No… Christ spoke particularly to the Apostles when He said this, not just “anyone.”
 
You folks are completely misunderstanding me.
I do not disagree with you. I believe what you believe and I understand, same as you do, what Paul is saying.
1voice you do not believe what we believe because what we believe is that Christ is truly and really present in the Eucharist. Not spiritually but literally! Christ’s Flesh is the Bread and His Blood is the wine and we must literally consume Him in order to have Eternal life!

Now there is good reason for why we Catholics believe this. First is because Christ told us to do so and second because it is in direct correlation with the sacrifice of the Passover. In Exodus we see that we must have a lamb (Christ is the Lamb of God), it must be male (Christ is male), it must be without blemish (Christ is without sin), and that it must be sacrificed as an act of adoration, reparation, thanksgiving and supplication (Christ died for our sins, Christ’s Sacrifice gives the ultimate sign of adoration to God as well as thanksgiving, and Christ’s sacrifice is the most effective means of asking the Father for what we need. Christ did say ask anything in my name and it will be given to you.)

But wait there is more!

Yes in fact the last requirement in Exodus regarding the Passover Sacrifice and that it must be consumed!:dancing:

:clapping::clapping::clapping: :extrahappy: :clapping::clapping::clapping:
 
When I meant the Catholics have a more liberal view of the Bible I just meant they(Catholics) are more open to interpretation than most non Catholic churches.
I think we could debate this comment into meaningless nuance and not help either your understanding of us or our understanding of you, but perhaps it will suffice to say that our interpretation differs from yours on points of theology and how to live it.

I spent time in college with non-denominational Christians who consistently (and sometimes angrily) told me that there is no such thing as interpreting the Bible - yet they too differed on their understanding, even among one another.

Perhaps the most accurate statement you could make is that the Catholic Church sees spiritual truth always in the Bible but does not require literal truth at all points where spiritual truth is expressed. If a historical event is incorrectly placed (ie, if Judith was placed during the reign of the wrong king), that to us is a narration, a good story that helps us to approach the intended spiritual truth of reliance upon God, or the need for a holy life separate from the passions of the world, for example. Do the parables need to be actual recountings of people and events in order for Our Lord to make His point? Were there necessarily five wise virgins and five foolish bearing their lamps, in order for Jesus to have healed the blind and the lame? I don’t require that the parable be proven to have happened in order to believe in those miracles or in the point of the parable, but it is something to be taken prayerfully. Nothing that is a part of the narrative abrogates the need for Christ’s death and resurrection - the most important spiritual truth of Scripture.

Likewise, not all non-Catholic churches take Genesis literally. Some are ludicrously liberal - and when I hear the adjective “liberal” I generally think more of the Presbyterian (PCUSA, not PCA) in which Biblical sexual moraes are questioned and God is sometimes described in the feminine, or certain non-denominational churches out here that focus on a “Gospel of Wealth”.
Also when I said liberal I said that because Catholics are open to more books that could be inspired by God than just the Bible.
I see where you’re coming from - if you start with the premise that the Bible has the entirety of the answers, with no further understanding needed, then anything extra-biblical is automatically suspicious.

At the same time, consider our history, and the challenges we as Church have faced from those who, using the same Bible, attacked the Truth revealed therein. We have had many instances when it is not enough to counter one passage with another. This is where we see the merit in the patristics and other scholars who have defended the Bible and the Church for centuries. Some of the arguments you hear being made by Catholic apologists are the exact same ones made by Ignatius of Antioch in the 2nd century, or St. Jerome, who compiled the first translation of the Bible from Hebrew and from Greek into Latin (then the local and common language), or Augustine or Aquinas.
I guess that is another reason why non-Catholics don’t have a problem visiting another church or joining another church because more than likely the Pastors are preaching the same thing… what is coming out of there mouth, about God, Jesus, Heaven, the Rapture, and Salvation is all the same.
We’ve had different experiences on this. I’ve worshipped with Presbyterians, Baptists, congregations who claim no denomination, Methodists, and Lutherans. Some believe in the Rapture, others dismiss it as an american-centric invention out of the Restorationist movement. Some believe “once saved always saved”, others that you can lose your salvation - still others that if you lost it, you never were really saved to begin with. What they hold in common is a belief in Christ’s death, resurrection and Second Coming, that faith in Christ, the Son of God, is essential for salvation and life in Heaven. Where they disagree is on what exactly constitutes a saving faith - is it enough to have head knowledge, or is a ‘born-again’ experience required? Is baptism an outward sign offered to the Father, or something the Father does to us and we remain only recipients?

And, very pertinently I noticed as the Catholic visitor, what role did the Catholic Church play in the end times? My experience with this last item was markedly different. At one church (International Church of Christ), I was directly and personally challenged by the pastor to leave the Catholic Church. At others, I was told, quite happily, that their congregation was full of ex-Catholics. A few handed me Chick tracts, or other literature. Others were glad I was there and a few even offered to attend Mass with me.
Basically they want there members to be saved. They don’t want any of their members to perish.
This is common to the Catholic Church as well. I do notice, though, that Catholic priests tend to assume all in attendance are believers - though we don’t go so far as to say “I’m saved” (Rom 8:24) without adding “I am being saved” (1 Cor 1:18), and “I will be saved” (Rom 10:9). In contrast, I’ve found that non-Catholic pastors tend to approach their flock as though there are non-believers present as well. I cannot say which is the better approach - a good pastor knows the flock and approaches them where they are. When I talk with my non-Catholic friends about Fr. Nick who gives homilies directly out of the Catechism (and they are as dry as that sounds), they mention Pastor Chuck who essentially gives the same sermon every Sunday that faith in Jesus Christ alone saves, and both of us express our appreciation for the fundamentals of faith but also the desire for more mature teaching.
 
Back to the start:
I heard Catholics say this before and I don’t understand the saying. What exactly do this mean? I think Protestants believe they have the full truth because we have the Bible, God’s words.
Pretty_Wings, have you received an answer to why Catholics see Protestants as having part of the truth, and Catholics alone as having the fullness of truth?

I think we’ve all (myself included) gotten into a series of discussions that are important in their own light but might not help you to understand the root of your question, which at first seemed to be where we get our knowledge, why our understanding from Scripture differs from yours, and why we read and trust extra-Biblical sources that you would not read or trust.

It’s good to discuss differences in understanding of baptism and salvation, and these forums are certainly a good place to approach the Catholic understanding, but I don’t want to pull you further off your first question. Also, it may be helpful to ask separate questions on separate threads so that we don’t have so much intermingling that it becomes an unmanageable furball here.
 
No… Christ spoke particularly to the Apostles when He said this, not just “anyone.”
In the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses …

Rev 1:

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
Code:
 “ You are worthy to take the scroll, 
  And to open its seals; 
  For You were slain, 
  And have redeemed us to God by Your blood 
  Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 
   10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; 
  And we[f] shall reign on the earth.”

 
In the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses …

Rev 1:

4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:

8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:
Code:
 “ You are worthy to take the scroll, 
  And to open its seals; 
  For You were slain, 
  And have redeemed us to God by Your blood 
  Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 
   10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; 
  And we[f] shall reign on the earth.”

We are priests, but we are not ordained priests, which is different. Christ breathed upon the Apostles and ordained them. And we see in Acts that the Apostles passed that on.
 
We are priests, but we are not ordained priests, which is different. Christ breathed upon the Apostles and ordained them. And we see in Acts that the Apostles passed that on.
Exactly! The Sacrament of Holy Orders was given to those who were called by Christ and given to those who succeeded the Apostles and were ordianed by them, etc.

Take for instance when, after Christ’s death and resurrection, He commanded His apostles to go out and baptize all nations and whoevers sin they forgive it is forgiven and whoevers sin they retain they are retained. Now if the Sacrament of Holy Orders does not exist and we are all our own priests then 1voice should be able to retain my sins. Yet something tells me that 1voice will not claim that he/she can do such a thing. This brings us to the logical conclusion that there must be Christians that can and there are. They are called Bishops, and priests or as Saint Paul says ambassadors of the ministry of reconciliation.

This then begs the question how can their be ambassadors (an office) in an invisible Church? Offices of authority can only exist if the Church is a visible entity.

The plot thickens dun dun daaaah
 
Well… you demonstrate here that you have mastered the forceful delivery of 1 or 2 Catholic cliches … but not much else.😉
It seemed like you were sharing what the gospel of salvation is to you, so I am telling you how it differs from what the Apostles believed and taught.

What was it you needed demonstrated, 1voice? What brings you here?
You folks are completely misunderstanding me.
I do not disagree with you. I believe what you believe and I understand, same as you do, what Paul is saying.
I find that unlikely. If that were true, your affiliation would say something like “faithful, practicing Catholic”. 😃
Code:
 In addition...
The context of the New Testament shows clearly that Jesus equated the consuming his word with consuming his flesh.
I am simply saying that the Bible clearly states that consuming the words of the Bible (in the right spirit) is also consuming Christ himself.
Yes, but if we did not need both, He would not have given us both. Many of our separated brethren try to convince us that it is Bible INSTEAD of Eucharist.

Besides, since there were no bibles in the hands of the laity prior to the invention of the printing press in 1439, how were they to “eat”?
In fact, that is how we grow as Christians. "Be transformed through the renewing of your mind by the washing of the word’. and… ‘If you obey my words you will know the truth ( by experiencing the results) and that truth (that you see the results of applying) will set you free’. It is the key to ‘become perfect… even as your Father in heaven is perfect’ … and becoming one of "the just that live by faith’
👍
Code:
What you call 'Holy Communion' is also a way that Jesus established to partake of him. Just as Baptism is physical action with a spiritual consequence. Receiving Communion is receiving Christ.
I am glad you have retained this Catholic Teaching.
Code:
My other point, stated in one of the posts up there, is that Jesus clearly stated that 'anyone' that consumed bread and wine with the heart felt intention of doing it in memory of Jesus ... is partaking of his body and blood. "Do this in memory of me'. ... they are entering into the new and ever lating covenant.
No. This is not what the Apostles believed or taught.

I will concede that they have a memorial service, and that many of our separated brethren meditate on the death of our lord during this memorial service, but it is not a valid eucharist.
 
Take the chip off you shoulder.😉

If I’ve heard it once I’ve heard it 100 times… Bible quotes are only acceptable in this forum when used by Catholics. People that are not Catholic lack the depth to make a point unless they agree with you.

If you get offended when someone challenges a typically Catholic generic response… feel free.
I ususally do start with a typically Catholic generic response, especially when I am not sure what the motives or intent are of the other member. I am not sure why you are here, or what you want demonstrated to you, so it seems prudent so start with the most basics. Perhaps we can move on to other things?

You have embraced a heresy. Would you like to discuss that?
Saying that “this was not all that was taught by the Apostles about life” is a true statement. No argument there. … Saying that ‘Catholics include all of it’ implies that there is something to add that will correct the Bible verses that I quoted. All I did in that post was quote the verses that said that Jesus’ flesh is his word as well as life and light… He seems to disagree with that but presents nothing other than to say that there is more to it than that. That is not much of a rebuttal.
Ok. Let’s move on to what issues we are in disagreement about. 👍
 
You have embraced a heresy. Would you like to discuss that?
Heresy? I love how you Catholics always use terms that assume the high ground no matter what.
‘Lord, they didnt agree with us, shall we send fire down from heaven?’ 😃

What heresy do you assume I have embraced then?

… and, a little off the subject, but what is your take on Charismatic Catholics. The reason that I ask is … I am probably closest to that expression of faith in my own Christian walk. … Praying to see my friends get healed, speaking in tongues, baptism in the Holy Spirit …

As to why I am here… this part of the forum seems to create the best atmosphere to compare and debate the different views on religion/faith… I like to see how others think and express my thoughts just like the rest of everybody… I’ve always been curious about such things.
 
Heresy? I love how you Catholics always use terms that assume the high ground no matter what.
It is true that the faith of the Apostles is truly the high ground. It is also true that those who remain in unity with their teachings can be on that high ground.

But it is not up to any individual Catholics to determine what is heresy and what is not. It is our duty to recognize it and avoid it.

Besides, you did not seem to want “generalized” responses. 😃
‘Lord, they didnt agree with us, shall we send fire down from heaven?’ 😃
Jesus didn’t say the fire wasn’t coming. Just not right then. 😃
What heresy do you assume I have embraced then?
There is no need to assume. If you really believe the things you posted here, then they are plain.
… and, a little off the subject, but what is your take on Charismatic Catholics. The reason that I ask is … I am probably closest to that expression of faith in my own Christian walk. … Praying to see my friends get healed, speaking in tongues, baptism in the Holy Spirit …
I feel closer and more comfortable with the Charismatic expressions. These are my faith expereinces also.
As to why I am here… this part of the forum seems to create the best atmosphere to compare and debate the different views on religion/faith… I like to see how others think and express my thoughts just like the rest of everybody… I’ve always been curious about such things.
Ok. You are right, this is the best place.
 
I heard Catholics say this before and I don’t understand the saying. What exactly do this mean? I think Protestants believe they have the full truth because we have the Bible, God’s words.
Do you REALLY think catholics don’t have the Bible or was that an offhand insult?
 
Do you REALLY think catholics don’t have the Bible or was that an offhand insult?
Many modern evangelicals have no clue about the origin of the Bible.

When I was growing up Catholic, I did not either. We were not taught how to read it, and knew very little about it. Imagine my shock when I realized it was a Catholic book!
 
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