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eddie_too
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join all of the others without faith and live a life of despair for as long as I could before succumbing to the meaninglessness of life and ending it pre-emptively.
Catholics, if you came to believe that the resurrection did not happen, what would you do?
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TimothyH
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There is no such thing as “coming to believe.” Belief is not something that just happens to you. Belief is a choice.
Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” (Mark 9:24)
I would make a choice to believe again. Fides quaerens intellectum.
-Tim-
Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!” (Mark 9:24)
I would make a choice to believe again. Fides quaerens intellectum.
-Tim-
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tonyfish58
Guest
I would question the depth of ones Faith to begin with.
Some of the comments to date on this thread are rather alarming and I feel some will need to reassess their Faith in God.
Would ones Faith in Christ in His resurrection be dependent upon earthly remains when there are so many writings on that the Flesh Profiteth Nothing?
I would suggest one Stays a strong Christian and implore God to offer another explanation unto them as to the significance of the Resurrection. It is Gods Word we are Reading, would we throw that away if our understanding was challenged, or would we step up to the task?
So what would I become, I would become a Stronger Christian.
God Bless and Regards Tony
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tonyfish58
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DaddyGirl - Now that is the Christian in all of us
God Bless your Faith - Regards Tony
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anon99031074
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The movement of Christianity started because Jesus’ original followers had an earth shattering experience. They experienced their teacher, who they thought was dead, as alive, as with God. I have no doubt they had such an experience. Christianity would not have arisen without it. They interpreted that experience in light of their three tiered universe, and in terms of their Jewish religion. Many people throughout the ages have had a Jesus-experience, where he is alive and real to them. It is still happening today. The resurrection is not merely something that happened 2000 years ago. It is experienced as a reality for millions of believers.
What this means is a question open to considerable debate. Whether or not it means that Jesus dead body was reanimated is of secondary importance to me. The real question is whether or not people who are having the Jesus experience are encountering something greater than themselves or if it is a pure delusion. I sincerely doubt it is a pure delusion, but I am also not sure if the dogmatic interpretation is correct. In other words, just because Jews in the first century interpreted their experience of Jesus being alive to them in terms of a blood sacrifice to propitiate an angry God, doesn’t mean that everyone else needs to.
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anon99031074
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To put it bluntly, even if it were somehow discovered that Jesus’ body was dumped into a ditch with other criminals and the whole empty-tomb story is false, it would make very little difference to me. It would not invalidate people’s experiences, only a literal reading of some of the imagery used to make sense out of the experience.
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OraLabora
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Let’s assume for a moment that the “historical” Jesus was proven to not exist (something I rather doubt is provable) and was instead shown to be a legend, would His character be any less compelling? A friend once said “if Jesus didn’t exist, we’d have to invent Him”. My arguments though will be based on the premise that God does exists, as made obvious by mankind’s never-ceasing quest to find Him.
But getting back to the hypothetical “legend” of Jesus. IMHO His story would be just as compelling, His role in our history, whether as a legendary or real figure, just as significant, and His message just as on-target and prescient as it was 2000 years ago.
Would this not then indicate that even the “legendary” Jesus’s message is God-inspired, God-breathed? Would not the “legendary” Jesus still be a bridge between ourselves and God the Father?
So you see I’m not too worried if it’s ever discovered that Jesus is a “legend” and not a real person, or a legendary story around a real person. Legends have their place in human history in helping us understand the position of mankind in the universe, in seeking our higher purpose and in uncovering the obscure links to God. Without these legends of our imagination I doubt even that it would be possible to form a relationship with God. They help us imagine the unimaginable and they help us see through the fog. Even the Bible has what are pretty certainly stories that are legends not historical. Legends can help us uncover a truth; a fictional story can still reveal a moral lesson as even many children’s fairy tales do. No story is more compelling than that of God’s relationship with mankind, the legendary parts just as important as the real parts, and no story reveals Truths about mankind’s redemption, forgiveness, and the need for Christian love and charity, that that of Jesus. Whether He turned out to be a legendary rather than historical figure, could not possibly change that.
I would therefore continue to be a Christian heavily influenced by Benedictine spirituality, and I would urge others not to despair, but to continue to live the life Jesus intended for us. Because you see, whether Jesus was a historical figure or is a “legend” would not matter. He would in fact exist in all of our hearts and we would continue to form one Body in Christ. Christ would be made real through us and through our shared experience of His legend.
And that would in fact mean he is not a legend, but the Son of God incarnate in each and every one of us, and this incarnation would be part of God’s plan.
But in reality I don’t think Jesus was a legend, He is a real person. Perhaps some parts of his story are legendary or got embellished in the telling, but it’s a moot point; it doesn’t matter to me for the reasons above. He remains burned into our hearts, for those of us willing to open our hearts to Him. He shows us a sure path to God, no matter what. There is no way that a proof that He is a legend rather than a real historical person, could erase 2000 years of history.
But getting back to the hypothetical “legend” of Jesus. IMHO His story would be just as compelling, His role in our history, whether as a legendary or real figure, just as significant, and His message just as on-target and prescient as it was 2000 years ago.
Would this not then indicate that even the “legendary” Jesus’s message is God-inspired, God-breathed? Would not the “legendary” Jesus still be a bridge between ourselves and God the Father?
So you see I’m not too worried if it’s ever discovered that Jesus is a “legend” and not a real person, or a legendary story around a real person. Legends have their place in human history in helping us understand the position of mankind in the universe, in seeking our higher purpose and in uncovering the obscure links to God. Without these legends of our imagination I doubt even that it would be possible to form a relationship with God. They help us imagine the unimaginable and they help us see through the fog. Even the Bible has what are pretty certainly stories that are legends not historical. Legends can help us uncover a truth; a fictional story can still reveal a moral lesson as even many children’s fairy tales do. No story is more compelling than that of God’s relationship with mankind, the legendary parts just as important as the real parts, and no story reveals Truths about mankind’s redemption, forgiveness, and the need for Christian love and charity, that that of Jesus. Whether He turned out to be a legendary rather than historical figure, could not possibly change that.
I would therefore continue to be a Christian heavily influenced by Benedictine spirituality, and I would urge others not to despair, but to continue to live the life Jesus intended for us. Because you see, whether Jesus was a historical figure or is a “legend” would not matter. He would in fact exist in all of our hearts and we would continue to form one Body in Christ. Christ would be made real through us and through our shared experience of His legend.
And that would in fact mean he is not a legend, but the Son of God incarnate in each and every one of us, and this incarnation would be part of God’s plan.
But in reality I don’t think Jesus was a legend, He is a real person. Perhaps some parts of his story are legendary or got embellished in the telling, but it’s a moot point; it doesn’t matter to me for the reasons above. He remains burned into our hearts, for those of us willing to open our hearts to Him. He shows us a sure path to God, no matter what. There is no way that a proof that He is a legend rather than a real historical person, could erase 2000 years of history.
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Cone
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I would do a lot of fornicating. I mean, why not?
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D0UBTFIRE
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Um… STDs?
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Susan1949
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I would have to figure out how I came to that conclusion. Who have I been listening to? What have I been reading?
At the first sign of doubt, I would discuss the issue with my priest or spiritual advisor.
And, then, I would pray, “Lord, I believe, help my unbelief.” repeatedly.
But, in the end, some things have to be accepted on FAITH!
Do you believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth?
Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, Our Lord? Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary?
Do you believe he suffered under Pontius Pilate;
was crucified, dead and buried?
Do you believe in the Holy Spirit?
Do you believe in the holy, catholic church?
Do you believe in the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins?
Do you believe in the resurrection of the body and life everlasting?
I would pray, pray, pray without ceasing. But, I would NOT leave the Catholic Church which has been here in this world for over 2000 years, founded by Jesus Christ, Himself.
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anon99031074
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So the reason not to fornicate is purely because God, for completely arbitrary reasons, will punish you for doing so? Are there no downsides to fornicating? If so, why would God wish to rob people of this pure joy?
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glendab
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Hello NHT.
I hope this is clear enough for you.
Glenda
I am here to comment on what is said here, not elsewhere. If you cannot repeat your words here I cannot remark on them. Sometimes, we are asked to look at a linked news article and comment on it and that is different. I’m sorry but I really cannot comment on a dialog you had with another person(s) at another site for another reason. We debate here about what gets posted here, not elsewhere.
I hope this is clear enough for you.
Glenda
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openmind77
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Actually, I think there were quite a few witnesses to the resurrection (over 500 saw the resurrected Jesus?), so it would be pretty safe to say that the resurrection did occur in some form.
But what if it was not an actual physical resurrection? What if it was more like an apparition (perhaps one pretty solid and distinguishable) would that be ‘good enough’ for most Catholics?
I personally think that was what it was - the physical body of Jesus was not resurrected, but the form of Jesus that appeared after his death was lifelike, could speak and convince all witnesses. After all, if it was an actual physical resurrection, then he could have been walking around with his disciples for a long time after his crucifixion.
Would such a spiritual resurrection still be enough to satisfy most Catholics, so that they would not abandon their faith?
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Susan1949
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Jesus was seen by many disciples. He are and drank with them.
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anon99031074
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Well, Paul says 500 people saw him in 1Cor15, but we only have Paul’s word for it. There is no independent testimony to verify this. It is also strange that it is never mentioned in the gospels. One wonders why such a momentous event would go unmentioned in all four gospels. At any rate, I fail to see why a spiritual resurrection would pose any problem. Nobody can travel back into the past to actually verify that Jesus’ corpse was reanimated, and the gospels are not as reliable as some would like to believe. But many people do experience Christ as a living reality today, hence not dead and gone to them. Is such an experience a pure delusion? I sincerely doubt it, but any materialist reductionist will think it is “just the brain”.
But these accounts are late. There is no physicality in 1Cor15, where Jesus is said to have become a “life giving spirit” (verse 45), nor is there mention of Jesus eating with the disciples in Mark. There is the strange reporting of people not recognizing him before some sort of spiritual experience. I don’t know what to make of those details.
At any rate, even if people did experience Jesus as physical, apparitions can seem physical. Sandra Tanner, the well known critic of mormonism, reported that she saw an apparition of her dead husband, Jerald, a couple of days after he died. He didn’t say anything, but he gave her a long, warm hug. So she certainly experienced it as physical, even though it probably wasn’t. This is not uncommon.
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anon99031074
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Thank you for an excellent post.
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CrossofChrist
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Haven’t read the latter 2, but those I highly doubt as well. What is convoluted about what Benedict has said? And not some quote taken out of context that therefore makes no sense…
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CrossofChrist
Guest
How could someone prove Jesus is a legend? The best that could be tried is to say we can’t prove he existed historically (which would be false and something that couldn’t ever be done…but let’s grant that it could for the moment).
And, like you, I say, “What would that prove?”
Our faith doesn’t rest on one particular historical argument, but history itself does point to the faith being true, including our present. Even if hypothetically all historical information was lost, all that was left was the Church’s message, so what? The beauty of Jesus’ life points to his divinity and the truth of who he was, and as long as the Church is around we will always have access to his story. Even if the historical information was gone, you could argue it is an act of humility by Jesus for letting that happen (obviously the reverse is true for Jesus letting himself be seen in his historical life, in service to us).
Now if for some reason I lost faith in Jesus, I suppose I’d live like many other people. I’d believe in God and his constant activity in the world, yet in the end he’d still be distant. I’d try and be a “good guy”, but all religious activity would obviously end. I mean, what’s the point of being Jewish when it all points to Jesus?
In short, I’d follow the same spiral as everyone else. Some progress from our natural reason here or there, offset by my limited viewpoint that abuses any progress made by using it for the wrong end (something inevitable when the end, purpose, and meaning of our lives is Jesus).
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manualman
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I believe St. Paul answered the question best. If Christ isn’t risen then Christians are the most pitiable creatures on the earth.
Good thing He did, eh?
Good thing He did, eh?
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Sy_Noe
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I might become part of your fellowship, Unitarian Universalism. I know there would be a place for me and there are things about UU that I find attractive anyway.
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