Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good - Catholics United - and Others

[gakroeger]

I see a lot of discussion on the various threads of this forum about Catholic politicians and other individual Catholics promoting and condoning anti Catholic practices such as abortion and homosexual marriage & life style. I do not see a lot of opposition to some of the so called Catholic activist groups doing the same thing under the cloak of being Catholic. I visited a few of these websites today to see just what they are saying. It appears from their political support for pro abortion and pro homosexual life style candidates that they are pro abortion, however, their rhetoric and the material on the front pages of their websites hide or camouflage this underlying fact. They seem to speak of “reducing” abortion instead of eliminating it.

Does anyone have any first hand information about any of these groups? Has anyone seen any condemnation of them by Church authorities? What are their main objectives?

It appears to me that they are groups trying to support each other in their erroneous decision to oppose Church teaching.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I see a lot of discussion on the various threads of this forum about Catholic politicians and other individual Catholics promoting and condoning anti Catholic practices such as abortion and homosexual marriage & life style. I do not see a lot of opposition to some of the so called Catholic activist groups doing the same thing under the cloak of being Catholic. I visited a few of these websites today to see just what they are saying. It appears from their political support for pro abortion and pro homosexual life style candidates that they are pro abortion, however, their rhetoric and the material on the front pages of their websites hide or camouflage this underlying fact. They seem to speak of “reducing” abortion instead of eliminating it.

Does anyone have any first hand information about any of these groups? Has anyone seen any condemnation of them by Church authorities? What are their main objectives?

It appears to me that they are groups trying to support each other in their erroneous decision to oppose Church teaching.

I get their emails on a regular basis. Look through the USCCB guide and these lay groups follow that. It is a very broad document and these groups focus quite a bit on the broad society/Social Justice parts of the document.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I get their emails on a regular basis. Look through the USCCB guide and these lay groups follow that. It is a very broad document and these groups focus quite a bit on the broad society/Social Justice parts of the document.

And IMHO ignore the five non-negotiable items.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

And IMHO ignore the five non-negotiable items.

Catholic Social Teachings go beyond any “five non-negotiable items”, which is a CAA construct, not a Church-wide focus.

 

[KathleenElsie]

What part of non-negotiable do people not understand?

As I understand it there is NO wiggle room for these items. No, none, nada a Faithful Catholic Voter MUST not vote for the person that promotes them if there is another person that does not promote them.

If all those viable politicos are equal in the non-negotiables then you may use your well formed conscience to discern the person you want to vote for.

 

[Chipper]

I see a lot of discussion on the various threads of this forum about Catholic politicians and other individual Catholics promoting and condoning anti Catholic practices such as abortion and homosexual marriage & life style. I do not see a lot of opposition to some of the so called Catholic activist groups doing the same thing under the cloak of being Catholic. I visited a few of these websites today to see just what they are saying. It appears from their political support for pro abortion and pro homosexual life style candidates that they are pro abortion, however, their rhetoric and the material on the front pages of their websites hide or camouflage this underlying fact. They seem to speak of “reducing” abortion instead of eliminating it.

Does anyone have any first hand information about any of these groups? Has anyone seen any condemnation of them by Church authorities? What are their main objectives?

It appears to me that they are groups trying to support each other in their erroneous decision to oppose Church teaching.

I have just got done with a debate with a very close relative of my mine over this issue. She insists that her Social Justice concerns outway the Pro-abortion concern. She figures that you can’t eliminate abortion anyways so you may as well concentrate on Social Justice areas.

To sum it up she will vote for that ding dong that supports Pro_abortion, and his whole ding dong committee.

They claim that the church allows for their “Conscious” to overiide a pro_abortion position, as long as they aren’t voting for abortion.

They usually have a large list of Social Justice areas, and they claim it outways the abortion concerns.

Frankly, I gave up debating with her, and am just letting her do her thing.

I think if that man gets elected, I may just leave the U.S. and take up residence in a country that doesn’t allow abortion, if there is one.

 

[gakroeger]

I have just got done with a debate with a very close relative of my mine over this issue. She insists that her Social Justice concerns outway the Pro-abortion concern. She figures that you can’t eliminate abortion anyways so you may as well concentrate on Social Justice areas.

To sum it up she will vote for that ding dong that supports Pro_abortion, and his whole ding dong committee.

They claim that the church allows for their “Conscious” to overiide a pro_abortion position, as long as they aren’t voting for abortion.

They usually have a large list of Social Justice areas, and they claim it outways the abortion concerns.

Frankly, I gave up debating with her, and am just letting her do her thing.

I think if that man gets elected, I may just leave the U.S. and take up residence in a country that doesn’t allow abortion, if there is one.

Yes, I have had the same debate with several friends and relatives. It is a frustrating experience. It seems so clear to me. It truly has brought home to me the teaching that “Faith” must precede “Understanding”. As I reread Pope Paul VI encyclical Humane Vitae written in 1968 recently I “now” understand the wisdom of it. At the time I must confess I did not. I followed Church teaching on faith in those days.

However, back to the subject at hand; my belief is that the leaders of these outlaw groups attempt to conceal their support for abortion candidates by attempting to paint other social issues as more important.

I suggest obtaining a copy of Bishop Charles J. Chaput’s new book, “Render unto Caesar”. There are many references in his book that aid in debates such as this. I was about to paste in such a statement from page 2290 & 230 of this book when I remembered the rule about posting copy righted material. However, the thrust of the statement by Bishop Chaput is;
He could not personally vote for a pro choice candidate, however Catholics in good conscience could vote for a pro choice candidate if they were honestly deeply troubled by issues such as war and other injustices in our country. However, he states that they must put real effort in the struggle to end pro abortion leanings in their party. And their decision to vote for a pro choice candidate is genuinely painful for them. One of the pillars of Catholic thought is; don’t deliberately kill the innocent, and don’t collude in allowing it.

This is obviously a condensed version of his statement; however, it is an accurate summary. Again, I highly recommend obtaining a copy of the book.

 

[Chipper]

I suggest obtaining a copy of Bishop Charles J. Chaput’s.

I quoted some of the things Bishop Chaput said. She just passed it off as 1 Bishop amongst the whole leadership.

These people go circular and start acting like protestants, and no amount of quotes from a single individual is going to override their decisions.

 

[edwest2]

I think it is important to point out that the right to life is the first right. If you aren’t going to make it out of the womb, no other rights can be used or matter for that aborted individual.

It also needs to be pointed out that while having respect for authority is right and proper, this is not a knee-jerk religious issue. A human being called an embryologist studies human embryos. You and everyone else reading this began life as a unique combination of genetic material from your mother and father. That is science you can prove.

God bless,
Ed

 

[rpp]

Catholic Social Teachings go beyond any “five non-negotiable items”, which is a CAA construct, not a Church-wide focus.

Actually, the “five non-negotiables” idea was first introduced by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in a 2004 letter the US Bishops.

As for Catholics in Alliance for Good, Catholic Culture does not seem to like them very much. They give this site a “Red” rating for fidelity.

 

[gakroeger]

Actually, the “five non-negotiables” idea was first introduced by the then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in a 2004 letter the US Bishops.

As for Catholics in Alliance for Good, Catholic Culture does not seem to like them very much. They give this site a “Red” rating for fidelity.

Thanks for the link. This supports my thoughts on this group and leads me to ask again; Has anyone seen any condemnation of them by Church authorities?

It seems these groups are doing more damage that Pelosi and Biden.

 

[rpp]

Thanks for the link. This supports my thoughts on this group and leads me to ask again; Has anyone seen any condemnation of them by Church authorities?

It seems these groups are doing more damage that Pelosi and Biden.

Recently, I have not seen the Church condemn any specific group. I have seen some individual bishops (e.g. Archbishop Chaput and Bishop Bruskewitz) condemn some larger dissident movements like Roman Catholic Womenpriests and Catholics for Choice. I have seen the Church condemn what these groups promote, like female ordination, homosexual activity and abortion, just not the actual organizations.

 

[gakroeger]

Recently, I have not seen the Church condemn any specific group. I have seen some individual bishops (e.g. Archbishop Chaput and Bishop Bruskewitz) condemn some larger dissident movements like Roman Catholic Womenpriests and Catholics for Choice. I have seen the Church condemn what these groups promote, like female ordination, homosexual activity and abortion, just not the actual organizations.

Yes, there appear to be hundreds of weird groups out there, however, this one (based on the link you posted) appears to be inspired, managed, and funded by leaders in the Democratic Party. What happened to their cry of separation of Church and State? These organizations appear to be guilty of interfering with the authority of the Church.

I wonder if political contributions to the Democratic Party are funding any of these groups. It is possible that Catholic Democrats who are pro life (I know it sounds contradictory) are funding these groups.

 

[Dale_M]

Yes, there appear to be hundreds of weird groups out there, however, this one (based on the link you posted) appears to be inspired, managed, and funded by leaders in the Democratic Party.

Why do you say that?

What happened to their cry of separation of Church and State?

Who are you referring to and what does the principle of Separation of Church and State have to do with the two organizations we are discussing?

These organizations appear to be guilty of interfering with the authority of the Church…

How so?

 

[Dale_M]

What part of non-negotiable do people not understand?

To be fair, “non-negotiable” is a Catholic Answers Action phrase. RPP mentioned a letter from Cardinal Ratzinger, but I don’t believe it uses “non-negotiable”.

But, yes, the US bishops have been clear that abortion is the pre-eminent issue.

 

[Corki]

To be fair, “non-negotiable” is a Catholic Answers Action phrase. RPP mentioned a letter from Cardinal Ratzinger, but I don’t believe it uses “non-negotiable”.

I think you are right. The applicable section is quite interesting however (emphasis mine).

Regarding the grave sin of abortion or euthanasia, when a person’s formal cooperation becomes manifest (understood, in the case of a Catholic politician, as his consistently campaigning and voting for permissive abortion and euthanasia laws), his Pastor should meet with him, instructing him about the Church’s teaching, informing him that he is not to present himself for Holy Communion until he brings to an end** the objective situation of sin**, and warning him that he will otherwise be denied the Eucharist.

So campaigning for permissive abortion laws is objectively a sin. This applies to the candidate, not to the person campaigning for the candidate. The campaigner would be facing material cooperation with the sin I suppose.

 

[gakroeger]

Why do you say that?
Who are you referring to and what does the principle of Separation of Church and State have to do with the two organizations we are discussing?

How so?

Apparantly you did not go to the link I referenced. This is a quote from that link.

"Voting for the Common Good: A Practical Guide for Conscientious Catholics published by Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good — which is led by former advisors to Senators John Kerry and Hillary Clinton — is nothing other than a well-funded attempt to try to persuade Catholics that it is morally acceptable to continue to vote for the “personally opposed” pro-choice candidates who have swindled them in the past. "