Catholics in numbers

[Mr.Bee]

Not my sacred writings, hon. Just reminding you of your own.

However, yes, that does indeed seem to be an apropos verse, as it certainly seems that there is a lot of judging based on numbers going on here (particularly in looking at various branches of Christianity) in addition to some glaring examples of pridefulness.

As to “judging” my objections to this argument, I am quite content to let that happen as the problems are glaringly obvious. The basic issue still remains. Numbers only prove the popularity of something at a particular time, not its inherent worth or truth. You cannot prove the validity of a religious belief based on popularity, unless you are willing to accept that the minute something else becomes more popular, your belief is therefore no longer right, the other guy’s is.

It is purely and simply a bad argument for the purpose the OP intends. Jumping around, boasting and yelling it louder only makes the bad argument louder, it doesn’t make it any better.

I have to agree with KarenNC on this one.

It’s not a race or contest. When we boast superiorty we also claim to have power over the losers (for lack of a better term) which may contradict the message of your religious belief.

At this rate Muslims will overtake Christians in numbers in a few years, would you conceed defeat?

 

[2ndGen]

Not my sacred writings, hon. Just reminding you of your own.

However, yes, that does indeed seem to be an apropos verse, as it certainly seems that there is a lot of judging based on numbers going on here (particularly in looking at various branches of Christianity) in addition to some glaring examples of pridefulness.

As to “judging” my objections to this argument, I am quite content to let that happen as the problems are glaringly obvious. The basic issue still remains. Numbers only prove the popularity of something at a particular time, not its inherent worth or truth. You cannot prove the validity of a religious belief based on popularity, unless you are willing to accept that the minute something else becomes more popular, your belief is therefore no longer right, the other guy’s is.

It is purely and simply a bad argument for the purpose the OP intends. Jumping around, boasting and yelling it louder only makes the bad argument louder, it doesn’t make it any better.

Yeah, but we’re still number 1!

:extrahappy:

It’s just a fact and truthful and the truth shall set you free.

Truth is neither right or wrong.

It is indifferent to it’s applications.

However, does it matter that The Church that Jesus Christ created is the most popular Religion in the world?

To me, yes. It is a testament to His popularity over any other false gods/religions.

Jesus’ Church truimphing over the Roman Empire and going from a persecuted minority to the overwhelming majority is evidence that Jesus’ Church is The True Church.

Yes, numbers matter. The Scriptures teach us that the saved will be countless so unlimited growth is definately not frowned upon in heaven.

I would believe that God would want all mankind (universally aka catholically) to be in The Church that His Son founded.

 

[2ndGen]

I have to agree with KarenNC on this one.

It’s not a race or contest. When we boast superiorty we also claim to have power over the losers (for lack of a better term) which may contradict the message of your religious belief.

At this rate Muslims will overtake Christians in numbers in a few years, would you conceed defeat?

1 Corinthians 9:

24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air.

27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

 

[Mirdath]

To me, yes. It is a testament to His popularity over any other false gods/religions.

Jesus’ Church truimphing over the Roman Empire and going from a persecuted minority to the overwhelming majority is evidence that Jesus’ Church is The True Church.

(emphasis added)

So was Jesus a liar and his church a false religion founded on false notions by a false god – until it got popular? Did someone have to go back in time and resurrect Jesus to make it correct once enough people believed?

There are arguments for God, and there are arguments for God. Some, like the ontological argument, can be taken as serious, if flawed, attempts to answer the question. The argument from numbers is not in such exalted company: it, and its sibling the argument from history, is a silly bit of claptrap.

 

[2ndGen]

(emphasis added)

So was Jesus a liar and his church a false religion founded on false notions by a false god – until it got popular? Did someone have to go back in time and resurrect Jesus to make it correct once enough people believed?

There are arguments for God, and there are arguments for God. Some, like the ontological argument, can be taken as serious, if flawed, attempts to answer the question. The argument from numbers is not in such exalted company: it, and its sibling the argument from history, is a silly bit of claptrap.

Does this mean that you don’t think that The Christian Church is the biggest Church in existance?

 

[Mirdath]

Does this mean that you don’t think that The Christian Church is the biggest Church in existance?

Christianity as a whole, if one does not take into account the separation of denominations through heresy, apostasy, and schism, is the most popularly professed – not necessarily practiced – religion as of right about now.

However, that’s not what I was getting at. Christianity has not always enjoyed such popularity. If numbers are the standard by which you judge legitimacy, you must admit that at one point it was a vanishingly small minority, and before that it didn’t even exist at all. Why does it matter if your deity is ‘popular’? Is Jesus’ divinity dependent on how many devotees he has? Does every convert away from Christianity or specifically Catholicism weaken the hypostatic union?

Did Jesus himself not warn ‘You will be hated by all because of my name’ in Mark 13:13?

What makes you so concerned for Jesus’ popularity when he himself said popularity isn’t the standard by which he should be judged?

 

[2ndGen]

Christianity as a whole, if one does not take into account the separation of denominations through heresy, apostasy, and schism, is the most popularly professed – not necessarily practiced – religion as of right about now.

However, that’s not what I was getting at. Christianity has not always enjoyed such popularity. If numbers are the standard by which you judge legitimacy, you must admit that at one point it was a vanishingly small minority, and before that it didn’t even exist at all. Why does it matter if your deity is ‘popular’? Is Jesus’ divinity dependent on how many devotees he has? Does every convert away from Christianity or specifically Catholicism weaken the hypostatic union?

Did Jesus himself not warn ‘You will be hated by all because of my name’ in Mark 13:13?

What makes you so concerned for Jesus’ popularity when he himself said popularity isn’t the standard by which he should be judged?

I’m not concerned.

Just happy.

 

[Mr.Bee]

1 Corinthians 9:

24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.

25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air.

27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Yes, okay. But be a good sport and win graciously.

I often see “winners” in the world who aren’t very nice about it.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Does this mean that you don’t think that The Christian Church is the biggest Church in existance?

As a non-catholic I don’t appreciate the insinuation that anyone who is not catholic is not a christian. Unless you are stating that catholic and protestant beliefs are one Church and I misunderstood…

To answer this question though… The Christian Church (encompassing any belief acknowledging that Christ is the Savior of this world) is the biggest Church! That includes catholic and protestant… These beliefs make up the Bride of Christ!

 

[2ndGen]

Yes, okay. But be a good sport and win graciously.

I often see “winners” in the world who aren’t very nice about it.

I’m not nice?

 

[2ndGen]

As a non-catholic I don’t appreciate the insinuation that anyone who is not catholic is not a christian. Unless you are stating that catholic and protestant beliefs are one Church and I misunderstood…

To answer this question though… The Christian Church (encompassing any belief acknowledging that Christ is the Savior of this world) is the biggest Church! That includes catholic and protestant… These beliefs make up the Bride of Christ!

Catholics=Church

Protestants=churches

Catholics & Protestants=Church

Yes, you misunderstood.

 

[Mr.Bee]

I’m not nice?

No, I didn’t mean you specifically… unless you’re that little league coach I had 30 years ago

 

[Righteousone]

As a non-catholic I don’t appreciate the insinuation that anyone who is not catholic is not a christian. Unless you are stating that catholic and protestant beliefs are one Church and I misunderstood…

To answer this question though… The Christian Church (encompassing any belief acknowledging that Christ is the Savior of this world) is the biggest Church! That includes catholic and protestant… These beliefs make up the Bride of Christ!

Catholic and Protestant are not one church. Non-Catholics just don’t get it. We both believe in Jesus Christ but one interprets the Bible incorrectly. We do not have the same beliefs. Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist etc…

 

[2ndGen]

No, I didn’t mean you specifically… unless you’re that little league coach I had 30 years ago

 

[2ndGen]

Catholic and Protestant are not one church. Non-Catholics just don’t get it. We both believe in Jesus Christ but one interprets the Bible incorrectly. We do not have the same beliefs. Protestants do not believe in the Real Presence in the Eucharist etc…

Singingbeauty is correct in a sense. We all (those who believe in basic tenets of Christianity) are members of The Body of Christ (The Church), but Catholics are “The” Church of Christ where all other churches are churches of men for they were founded by men.

I believe that The Catechism states this. I will do my best to find it, but I believe it states something to the effect that we are all members of The Christian Church (generally speaking).

Give me some time.

 

[2ndGen]

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Toward unity

820 "Christ bestowed unity on his Church from the beginning. This unity, we believe, subsists in the Catholic Church as something she can never lose, and we hope that it will continue to increase until the end of time."277 Christ always gives his Church the gift of unity, but the Church must always pray and work to maintain, reinforce, and perfect the unity that Christ wills for her. This is why Jesus himself prayed at the hour of his Passion, and does not cease praying to his Father, for the unity of his disciples: "That they may all be one. As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be one in us, . . . so that the world may know that you have sent me."278 The desire to recover the unity of all Christians is a gift of Christ and a call of the Holy Spirit.279

 

[EmergencyOps]

Thanks for the numbers game

How many of those are practicing Catholics? It’s a sad fact that around Christmas and Easter, parish attendance suddenly spikes. It saddens me to see so many people who are “fronting” their faith.

 

[2ndGen]

Thanks for the numbers game

How many of those are practicing Catholics? It’s a sad fact that around Christmas and Easter, parish attendance suddenly spikes. It saddens me to see so many people who are “fronting” their faith.

I think that this is a human phenomona and not neccessarily just a Catholic one.

I hear the same thins about non-Catholic Christians.

I can say for my area, the Churches are growing fast…so much so that they had to add masses (this is due to the new immigrant population in my area).

I’m sure it’ll be different in other places.

 

[Righteousone]

Thanks for the numbers game

How many of those are practicing Catholics? It’s a sad fact that around Christmas and Easter, parish attendance suddenly spikes. It saddens me to see so many people who are “fronting” their faith.

There are 4 Masses on Sunday, 2 on Saturday and 1 every day of the week. Most times are jam packed, othere aren’t and these are the Masses people refer to.

 

[Righteousone]

Thanks for the numbers game

How many of those are practicing Catholics? It’s a sad fact that around Christmas and Easter, parish attendance suddenly spikes. It saddens me to see so many people who are “fronting” their faith.

Furthermore, I know many Protestants who NEVER attend church and don’t even care.