Catholics in Science

[balto]

Hello everyone. Please forgive me if I posted this in the wrong section as I’m still a new poster . I was just wondering how other people deal with colleagues who are pursuing immoral anti-Catholic methods in their work.

I’m a second year biology graduate student who started doing research with an advisor as an undergraduate. There’s nothing immoral with the research I’m doing, however my advisor has started a rotation project with another student this past semester into developing a form of female sterilization that would supposedly be reversible when the woman desires to have another child. This is all promoted in the hopes of combating global overpopulation (which I don’t even agree is even happening). Obviously I wasn’t too pleased to learn that this was being done . However, I attempted to challenge some of their scientific and philosophical points this past week when the research was presented at our weekly group meetings. But I think I mistakenly gave everybody the impression that I’m okay with the research (I’m obviously not) because my advisor sent around an e-mail from the population society or whatever congratulating an evangelical that’s promoting contraception as a method to combat climate change and he makes a moral argument saying that Christians should be supporting contraception because it leads to less abortions. So I responded by highlighting numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles showing this to be false and then said that promoting abortion and contraception is not Christian which is why I adhere to Catholic teaching on the matter (they all know I’m Christian already). And now I’m in the middle of an e-mail debate over it and will have to deal with the tension next week.

I was just wondering if anybody else has to deal with these issues and how you go about doing it? Are there any other Catholic scientists or biologists out there that have these issues? Are we supposed to be constantly fighting against this stuff or just articulate our views, not participate in the activity, and then live and let live?

 

[wanabesaint]

First bless you for your concern to, and to question what your doing…

Would encourage you to do some research into the fact that the US and Europe, and a hoast of countries are now into a perment population decline that has set the stage for the next hundred to two hundred years of declining population.
Over population is a major hoax, a terrible sin both against the Family structure and what the world is all about…
The idea of curtailing family size falls on a great superstition of less children ment that their was more money to be spent on luxuries, insurance, houses, and general economit Stimulas…
Birth control is proven to lead to the demise of the family structure. and today we can point ot the fact half of the births are to single parents.

Most all of what your involved in is to create a profit mecca for some drug based company that wants a product they can sell, and profit from…

and, lets remember, University once stood for, to bring people to be of Universal knowledge, today its a great indoctrine of superstition, to fleece children of their, money and make them, debt slaves. screwed and a paper to document it. .

 

[MarcoPolo]

stuff or just articulate our views, not participate in the activity, and then live and let live?

When dealing with true anti-Catholics, it’s been my experience to present an argument once, and if I feel it was sound, then I don’t worry about whether or not I see an immediate change in their minds. Then I stop. I don’t chase after them as they recoil without a sound counter. They’ll probably mock you, as you’ve already experienced. But the mockery of a skeptic is not a measure of truth.

If you want some science, you can point out that the same government that is mandating religious folks to pay for oral contraception openly admits those drugs increase cancer risk in women.

See other resources like how science shows contraception doesn’t lower abortion rates

Doctors who are pro-life and against contraception

Other Catholic doctors opposed to contraception funding

Catholic doctor shows ineffectivity of birth control pills to the root cause of endometriosis.

But if I may advise - if you approach the matter only on their turf - trying to prove morality using science alone, you might end up in trouble. First and foremost, contraception and sterlization are immoral on their own grounds, regardless of what any study says. They are affronts against the natural and moral law, and seek to cause disfunction in the human body, rather than curing it of anything. It is thus perverse and wrong. You can stick to “we have a sacred view of sexuality that transcends all this scientific data, even though much of it supports us.” That’s the “bottom line” if you wll.

 

[TheAtheist]

I’m a second year biology graduate student who started doing research with an advisor as an undergraduate. There’s nothing immoral with the research I’m doing, however my advisor has started a rotation project with another student this past semester into developing a form of female sterilization that would supposedly be reversible when the woman desires to have another child. This is all promoted in the hopes of combating global overpopulation (which I don’t even agree is even happening). Obviously I wasn’t too pleased to learn that this was being done . However, I attempted to challenge some of their scientific and philosophical points this past week when the research was presented at our weekly group meetings. But I think I mistakenly gave everybody the impression that I’m okay with the research (I’m obviously not) because my advisor sent around an e-mail from the population society or whatever congratulating an evangelical that’s promoting contraception as a method to combat climate change and he makes a moral argument saying that Christians should be supporting contraception because it leads to less abortions. So I responded by highlighting numerous peer-reviewed scientific articles showing this to be false and then said that promoting abortion and contraception is not Christian which is why I adhere to Catholic teaching on the matter (they all know I’m Christian already). And now I’m in the middle of an e-mail debate over it and will have to deal with the tension next week.

What?!

If this ever happened at my own institution, i’d think the department chair would intervene.

Practical Solution: Switch advisors.

Engaging in a debate with faculty over a matter ultimately ancillary to your professional goals is not the best thing to do esp. if said faculty member is a tenured professor with strong views on the subject matter mentioned.

Especially since they have (name removed by moderator)ut on the evaluation of your dissertation defense.

Long story short: Switch advisors.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

First bless you for your concern to, and to question what your doing…

Would encourage you to do some research into the fact that the US and Europe, and a hoast of countries are now into a perment population decline that has set the stage for the next hundred to two hundred years of declining population.
Over population is a major hoax, a terrible sin both against the Family structure and what the world is all about…
The idea of curtailing family size falls on a great superstition of less children ment that their was more money to be spent on luxuries, insurance, houses, and general economit Stimulas…
Birth control is proven to lead to the demise of the family structure. and today we can point ot the fact half of the births are to single parents.

Most all of what your involved in is to create a profit mecca for some drug based company that wants a product they can sell, and profit from…

and, lets remember, University once stood for, to bring people to be of Universal knowledge, today its a great indoctrine of superstition, to fleece children of their, money and make them, debt slaves. screwed and a paper to document it. .

The problem is that for a long time it does leave more money right up until retirement where those with children will have a support mechanism even if there is no welfare net and those without children need savings, government or they are out of luck. Ultimately it is a tragedy of the commons.

 

[Don_Jackson]

First bless you for your concern to, and to question what your doing…

Would encourage you to do some research into the fact that the US and Europe, and a hoast of countries are now into a perment population decline that has set the stage for the next hundred to two hundred years of declining population.
Over population is a major hoax, a terrible sin both against the Family structure and what the world is all about…
The idea of curtailing family size falls on a great superstition of less children ment that their was more money to be spent on luxuries, insurance, houses, and general economit Stimulas…
Birth control is proven to lead to the demise of the family structure. and today we can point ot the fact half of the births are to single parents.

Most all of what your involved in is to create a profit mecca for some drug based company that wants a product they can sell, and profit from…

and, lets remember, University once stood for, to bring people to be of Universal knowledge, today its a great indoctrine of superstition, to fleece children of their, money and make them, debt slaves. screwed and a paper to document it. .

I totally agree with the Church teachings on life and procreation. However out of fairness, we should be careful before claiming misinterpretation of statistics as fact.

Just a point. There has been many claims of “declining population” in the US, but its simply not true.

Our POPULATION is not in decline. Our POPULATION RATE OF GROWTH by births is in decline.

There is a big difference.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I totally agree with the Church teachings on life and procreation. However out of fairness, we should be careful before claiming misinterpretation of statistics as fact.

Just a point. There has been many claims of “declining population” in the US, but its simply not true.

Our POPULATION is not in decline. Our POPULATION RATE OF GROWTH by births is in decline.

There is a big difference.

No, not rate of growth, the TFR is below 2.1 which means people aren’t have enough children to replace them.

 

[balto]

First bless you for your concern to, and to question what your doing…

Would encourage you to do some research into the fact that the US and Europe, and a hoast of countries are now into a perment population decline that has set the stage for the next hundred to two hundred years of declining population.
Over population is a major hoax, a terrible sin both against the Family structure and what the world is all about…
The idea of curtailing family size falls on a great superstition of less children ment that their was more money to be spent on luxuries, insurance, houses, and general economit Stimulas…
Birth control is proven to lead to the demise of the family structure. and today we can point ot the fact half of the births are to single parents.

Thanks for pointing that out. But like I said before my research project is completely unrelated to this one. I did bring up population decline last week and I don’t think I ever received an answer to it. I also pointed out that it’s really not up to the first world to tell the third world how many children they will and won’t have and impose our moral system on them.

Most all of what your involved in is to create a profit mecca for some drug based company that wants a product they can sell, and profit from…

Yes, I think this is true. It’s the reason why all the links between birth control and cancer are ignored because there’s a huge financial interest in people continuing to use birth control.

 

[balto]

When dealing with true anti-Catholics, it’s been my experience to present an argument once, and if I feel it was sound, then I don’t worry about whether or not I see an immediate change in their minds. Then I stop. I don’t chase after them as they recoil without a sound counter. They’ll probably mock you, as you’ve already experienced. But the mockery of a skeptic is not a measure of truth.

Okay, that sounds like a good idea. It’s not my intention to be belligerent, but I think that I am supposed to be challenging them on this. At least it gets people to stop and think about what they’re doing.

If you want some science, you can point out that the same government that is mandating religious folks to pay for oral contraception openly admits those drugs increase cancer risk in women.

See other resources like how science shows contraception doesn’t lower abortion rates

Doctors who are pro-life and against contraception

Other Catholic doctors opposed to contraception funding

Catholic doctor shows ineffectivity of birth control pills to the root cause of endometriosis.

Thanks for the links! I have seen some of these data before and I presented some of the research that shows that increasing access or use of contraception does not lead to fewer abortions, but more abortions.

But if I may advise - if you approach the matter only on their turf - trying to prove morality using science alone, you might end up in trouble. First and foremost, contraception and sterlization are immoral on their own grounds, regardless of what any study says. They are affronts against the natural and moral law, and seek to cause disfunction in the human body, rather than curing it of anything. It is thus perverse and wrong. You can stick to “we have a sacred view of sexuality that transcends all this scientific data, even though much of it supports us.” That’s the “bottom line” if you wll.

Thanks for the advice. I definitely agree with Catholic teaching on these matters. I just tried to use a scientific argument because they’ll just dismiss any moral argument and say “well I don’t agree with the Catholic Church on that issue.” However I did make a moral argument when the evangelical’s view was presented, and the response was that the discussion should stay scientific . I wasn’t the one that brought religion into it.

 

[balto]

What?!

If this ever happened at my own institution, i’d think the department chair would intervene.

Practical Solution: Switch advisors.

Engaging in a debate with faculty over a matter ultimately ancillary to your professional goals is not the best thing to do esp. if said faculty member is a tenured professor with strong views on the subject matter mentioned.

Especially since they have (name removed by moderator)ut on the evaluation of your dissertation defense.

Long story short: Switch advisors.

Like I said before my thesis project is completely unrelated to this particular project that my advisor is interested in. If it were then I would probably already be gone. This wasn’t a goal of the lab when I joined but seems like it may become one after this semester. I actually have considered the possibility of switching advisors however I’m already more than a couple of years into the research I am doing (again not the sterilization research) and I’m worried that I’d just be in a similar situation elsewhere. I guess I’ll see how it plays out this week and decide over the Christmas recess whether a move is in order. Thanks for your advice though!

 

[Tous_Logous]

I was just wondering if anybody else has to deal with these issues and how you go about doing it? Are there any other Catholic scientists or biologists out there that have these issues? Are we supposed to be constantly fighting against this stuff or just articulate our views, not participate in the activity, and then live and let live?

I am a geoscientist if that helps. I didn’t become a revert to believing in God and Catholicism until I was halfway through college. Most other geology/geoscientist majors I know were openly atheist or irreligious. Most didn’t talk about religion but the few I bothered to make friends with made it known to me that they don’t believe in God and hate religion. There were maybe 1 or 2 openly Christian geology majors and one religious Jew who believed in God.

I had another geology friend I tried witnessing to because his family is “Catholic in name only.” In other words, his family might have a Catholic background but they are not practicing. He is one of those types who “sort of” believes in God, doesn’t believe in going to Mass, sex before marriage is good, etc. He doesn’t pray or read the Bible; he says the Bible is “boring.” I’m pretty sure he is addicted to alcohol (many college students are). I’ve had several discussions with him in the past but none of it seems to click. I hope one days he comes to realize that there is a God and Savior who indeed loves him.

I had 3 geology professors who were openly atheist and made their beliefs known to their classes. Somehow, they would get off topic and then go on with a discussion regarding religion+politics or religion. It had nothing to do with the class. We hear atheists arguing that they don’t want religion in our schools. But here is me thinking, I don’t want atheism shoved down my throat either in public schools. I never did report those 2 professors; they were known for insulting anyone who didn’t agree with their worldview.

I also have to deal with it at work. There are several people who at work I don’t mind having religious discussions with, but they are so un-educated when it comes to Catholic teaching/belief, practice, or just Christianity in general. Somebody at work was having a discussion with me regarding abortion, and he just couldn’t wrap his mind around the fact that I believe abortion is murder. And this was me arguing from a logical/biological viewpoint, not religious. To me, this is common sense. Also, I told him, if killing unborn children is acceptable, why shouldn’t all murder be legalized? If I want to stab one of my co-workers to death, for example, why shouldn’t I be allowed to? After all, we don’t ask unborn children for their permission do we? This same man also believes that children are not “alive” until after they are born! And this is a man who is supposedly “educated” with a college degree! Biologyphail

I feel like I will never be able to find a man-a Catholic one at that-who believes in God and Church. Never one good Catholic man I can marry. Surprisingly, most men I know are pro-abortion and don’t believe in God. In fact, EVERY single man I know is pro-abortion! This comes as no surprise to me.

 

[balto]

I am a geoscientist if that helps. I didn’t become a revert to believing in God and Catholicism until I was halfway through college. Most other geology/geoscientist majors I know were openly atheist or irreligious. Most didn’t talk about religion but the few I bothered to make friends with made it known to me that they don’t believe in God and hate religion. There were maybe 1 or 2 openly Christian geology majors and one religious Jew who believed in God.

Yeah, that’s pretty much my case too.

I had 3 geology professors who were openly atheist and made their beliefs known to their classes. Somehow, they would get off topic and then go on with a discussion regarding religion+politics or religion. It had nothing to do with the class. We hear atheists arguing that they don’t want religion in our schools. But here is me thinking, I don’t want atheism shoved down my throat either in public schools. I never did report those 2 professors; they were known for insulting anyone who didn’t agree with their worldview.

I’ve had this experience too. That makes two of us that think that atheism shouldn’t be pushed in schools. Maybe a mandatory philosophy of religion class would help. I took one as an elective and I think all the students benefited despite their different outlooks.

I also have to deal with it at work. There are several people who at work I don’t mind having religious discussions with, but they are so un-educated when it comes to Catholic teaching/belief, practice, or just Christianity in general. Somebody at work was having a discussion with me regarding abortion, and he just couldn’t wrap his mind around the fact that I believe abortion is murder. And this was me arguing from a logical/biological viewpoint, not religious. To me, this is common sense. Also, I told him, if killing unborn children is acceptable, why shouldn’t all murder be legalized? If I want to stab one of my co-workers to death, for example, why shouldn’t I be allowed to? After all, we don’t ask unborn children for their permission do we? This same man also believes that children are not “alive” until after they are born! And this is a man who is supposedly “educated” with a college degree! Biologyphail

Well I guess it’s good that we’re not the only ones that have to deal with this. I had a similar experience when I had to take on my entire bioethics class against embryonic stem cell research. The professor said that science doesn’t know that life begins at conception; that’s a matter of faith. He also said that humanity isn’t determined by the genetics alone . And these people have Ph.Ds. Incredible.

I feel like I will never be able to find a man-a Catholic one at that-who believes in God and Church. Never one good Catholic man I can marry. Surprisingly, most men I know are pro-abortion and don’t believe in God. In fact, EVERY single man I know is pro-abortion! This comes as no surprise to me.

No surprise to me either, and I say this as a man myself. It’s a way for men to escape commitment to a woman. I’m sure you’ll find someone though . My brother Knights at the school I go to are all good Catholic men so they do exist, although they’re becoming increasingly more difficult to find. Thanks for sharing though! I feel a little bit better now. I guess the take home message is to just defend your beliefs and don’t back down when they push back. I need to work on growing a spine first though.

 

[Aggies08]

Back when I was in school:

I let my beliefs be known.

If someone wanted to engage in a real discussion- no proving, more of a “this is my side/ask questions about theirs,” I would do so.

Other than that, I didn’t say much more- I was always afraid I’d offend the wrong person, and it would impact my graduation.