Catholics in the Mormon woodpile?

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batman1973

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I got to thinking back to the old days, and notice several similarities that make me wonder:
Catholics:Purgatory
Mormons:Spirit Prison/Paradise
Catholics:Magestarium
Mormons:C.E.S. shudders(For those that dont speak Mormonese, Church Educational System)
Both Catholics and Mormons hold to Apostolic Authority.
Both churches hold(held, depending on whom you talk to) to the ideal that salvation isn’t granted outside of thier respected churches.
Both churches have a confessional (remember those oft nosy worthiness interviews?)
Both claim to be founded by Jesus Christ, and Peter the Apostle(well, James and John had a hand in Mormonism, as the story goes)
Both churches claim to be the one true church, but recognize that there is truth in other faiths.
Both claim to have an infallible leader(though I think it’s safe to say that the Pope hasnt made any false prophecies)
I’m sure that there are more, but this is all I can think of. I guess that Satan decided to model a false religion(LDS) after a true one(Catholic) to decieve as many as possible
 
1Corinthians 11:13* For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, who masquerade as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for **even Satan masquerades as an angel of light. **15So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Joseph Smith invented the Mormon faith believed to come from a vision from an Angel long, long after the resurrection. The scripture foretold us that these will manifest themselves to decieve the believers.

Galatians 1: 6 I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) **for a different gospel 7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed! 9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed! **11 Now I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel preached by me is not of human origin.
12 For I did not receive it from a human being, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

1 Tim.1: 3 I repeat the request I made of you when I was on my way to Macedonia, that you stay in Ephesus **to instruct certain people not to teach false doctrines
4 or to concern themselves with myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the plan of God that is to be received by faith. **

2 Peter 2: 1 There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who ransomed them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2 Many will follow their licentious ways, and because of them the way of truth will be reviled.
3 In their greed they will exploit you with fabrications, but from of old their condemnation has not been idle and their destruction does not sleep.

1John 2:22 Who is the liar? Whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Whoever denies the Father and the Son, this is the antichrist.
23 No one who denies the Son has the Father, but whoever confesses the Son has the Father as well.

1 John 4: 1 Beloved, **do not trust every spirit but test the spirits **to see whether they belong to God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2 This is how you can know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges Jesus Christ come in the flesh be longs to God,
3 and every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus 2 does not belong to God. This is the spirit of the antichrist that, as you heard, is to come, but in fact is already in the world.
4 You belong to God, children, and you have conquered them, for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They belong to the world; accordingly, their teaching belongs to the world, and the world listens to them.
6We belong to God, and anyone who knows God listens to us, while anyone who does not belong to God refuses to hear us. This is how we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of deceit.

Ephesians 4: 11 And he gave some as apostles, others as prophets, others as evangelists, others as pastors and teachers,
12 to equip the holy ones for the work of ministry, 5 for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, 6 to the extent of the full stature of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be infants, tossed by waves and swept along by every wind of teaching arising from human trickery, from their cunning in the interests of deceitful scheming.
15 Rather, living the truth in love, we should grow in every way into him who is the head, Christ, 7
 
batman1973 said:
I got to thinking back to the old days, and notice several similarities that make me wonder:
Catholics:Purgatory
Mormons:Spirit Prison/Paradise
Catholics:Magestarium
Mormons:C.E.S. shudders(For those that dont speak Mormonese, Church Educational System)
Both Catholics and Mormons hold to Apostolic Authority.
Both churches hold(held, depending on whom you talk to) to the ideal that salvation isn’t granted outside of thier respected churches.
Both churches have a confessional (remember those oft nosy worthiness interviews?)
Both claim to be founded by Jesus Christ, and Peter the Apostle(well, James and John had a hand in Mormonism, as the story goes)
Both churches claim to be the one true church, but recognize that there is truth in other faiths.
Both claim to have an infallible leader(though I think it’s safe to say that the Pope hasnt made any false prophecies)
I’m sure that there are more, but this is all I can think of. I guess that Satan decided to model a false religion(LDS) after a true one(Catholic) to decieve as many as possible
Click to expand...
So where do present day Mormons stand on the Catholic slam dunk, contraception? And is their present stand on contraception unchanged from the beginning?
 
“Did you ever hear of abortion being practiced in Nauvoo?”
“Yes. There was some talk about Joseph getting no issue from all the women he had intercourse with. Dr. Foster spoke to me about the fact. But I don’t remember what was told about abortion. If I heard things of the kind, I didn’t believe in them at that time. Joseph was very free in his talk about his women. He told me one day of a certain girl and remarked, that she had given him more pleasure than any girl he had ever enjoyed. I told him it was horrible to talk like this.”
Click to expand...
mrm.org/law-interview

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Bennett
 
batman1973 said:
I got to thinking back to the old days, and notice several similarities that make me wonder:
Catholics:Purgatory
Mormons:Spirit Prison/Paradise
Catholics:Magestarium
Mormons:C.E.S. shudders(For those that dont speak Mormonese, Church Educational System)
Both Catholics and Mormons hold to Apostolic Authority.
Both churches hold(held, depending on whom you talk to) to the ideal that salvation isn’t granted outside of thier respected churches.
Both churches have a confessional (remember those oft nosy worthiness interviews?)
Both claim to be founded by Jesus Christ, and Peter the Apostle(well, James and John had a hand in Mormonism, as the story goes)
Both churches claim to be the one true church, but recognize that there is truth in other faiths.
Both claim to have an infallible leader(though I think it’s safe to say that the Pope hasnt made any false prophecies)
I’m sure that there are more, but this is all I can think of. I guess that Satan decided to model a false religion(LDS) after a true one(Catholic) to decieve as many as possible
Click to expand...
You are very astute.

Only one of these possibilities could be correct?

Mormonism is more or less constructed as a parallel system. In many ways it reminds me of the persisent and noxious illogic of Arianism, which also constructed a striking similar parallel system. It is of course no suprise that much of the same philosophy runs rife through the American religion and that of the ancient heresy. They are not entirely similar but they are birds of a feather.

The whole idea rests on the notion that Jesus was an apparent failure in that He failed to thoroughly save the Apostles, and therefore we must then save ourselves by some machination or serpentine hiss (i.e. eat this and become gods) uttered by the Father of Lies in both the Garden of Eden and the Garden of Gethesemene.

All in all. My neighbors are fantastic people. I owe very much to them, particularly because they are CREATED according to the Image of God. So fantastic are they that I want nothing more than to let them know, first and foremost, it is okay and not evil to pray to Jesus. I think there is a Gospel verse that goes like this, “He who spurns the Father spurns the Son, and He who spurns the Son spurns the Father.”
 
Joseph was famous for copying other ideas…are you surprised?
 
mark_a said:
So where do present day Mormons stand on the Catholic slam dunk, contraception? And is their present stand on contraception unchanged from the beginning?
Click to expand...
It is permitted. And, defended at least in my experience. Not defended very well. They haven’t quite thought it through, I think. The official stance regarding abortion is the same argument. In my experience I have met counting on one-hand the number of pro-abortion Mormons.

The apologetic I have gotten thus far (several times) is “Being Mormon is about free-will.”

That was it. I think I quoted it correctly. It’s the same line everytime.
 
JimmytheButcher said:
It is permitted. And, defended at least in my experience. Not defended very well. They haven’t quite thought it through, I think. The official stance regarding abortion is the same argument. In my experience I have met counting on one-hand the number of pro-abortion Mormons.

The apologetic I have gotten thus far (several times) is “Being Mormon is about free-will.”

That was it. I think I quoted it correctly. It’s the same line everytime.
Click to expand...
Free Agency, it’s a very similar concept, but like many Mormon concepts, the devil is in the details. Literally. According to Mormon doctrine, during the pre-existence, we had the choice of choosing Christ’s plan or Satan’s plan. Because we are here, we obviously chose Christ’s plan. However, the war is not yet won. Once on earth, we must continue to use our agency to choose Christ, and to show others the true light of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And by “Gospel” I mean the Mormon church. They bleat out one side of their mouths that they simply want to be left alone and not be persecuted for their beliefs, and on the other side, make missionary work and conversion of non-Mormons not to Christ but to Mormonism one of the pillars of their religion. To quote one of the early leaders of the church, Brigham Young:
“There are but two parties on the earth, one for God and the other for the world or the Evil One. No matter how many names the Christian or heathen world bear, or how many sects and creeds may exist, there are but two parties, one for heaven and God, and the other will go to some other kingdom than the celestial kingdom of God.” (Discourses of Brigham Young, comp. John A. Widtsoe, 1966 ed., Deseret Book Co., p. 70.)
Click to expand...
 
JimmytheButcher said:
It is permitted. And, defended at least in my experience. Not defended very well. They haven’t quite thought it through, I think. The official stance regarding abortion is the same argument. In my experience I have met counting on one-hand the number of pro-abortion Mormons.

The apologetic I have gotten thus far (several times) is “Being Mormon is about free-will.”

That was it. I think I quoted it correctly. It’s the same line everytime.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the thoughtful answer.

Have you ever thought of adding “bead-mumbler” to your religion profile?🙂
 
mark_a said:
So where do present day Mormons stand on the Catholic slam dunk, contraception? And is their present stand on contraception unchanged from the beginning?
Click to expand...
“We seriously regret that there should exist a sentiment or feeling among any members of the Church to curtail the birth of their children. We have been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth that we may have joy and rejoicing in our posterity. Where husband and wife enjoy health and vigor and are free from impurities that would be entailed upon their posterity, it is contrary to the teachings of the Church artificially to curtail or prevent the birth of children. We believe that those who practice birth control will reap disappointment by and by.”
(First Presidency {David O. McKay, Hugh B. Brown, N. Eldon Tanner} Letter to presidents of stakes, bishops of wards, and presidents of missions, 14 April 1969)

“Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple. Elective abortion as a method of birth control, however, is contrary to the commandments of God.” (Taken from lds.org today)
 
If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things…and call it a “restoration”. Though I don’t think Mormonism today is the same as it was in Smith’s time. I’m sure he’s turning over in his grave over CES. That’s more a Brigham Young trait than Smith.

The brief stint I looked at Quakerism, they had similar going but more “free will choice” to it than Mormons, by a long shot.
 
It’s not surprising, really. If Mormons claim to be the restoration of Christ’s original Church, it would make sense that they would have similar teachings, especially with regards to the claim of apostolic succession.
 
RebeccaJ said:
“We seriously regret that there should exist a sentiment or feeling among any members of the Church to curtail the birth of their children. We have been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth that we may have joy and rejoicing in our posterity. Where husband and wife enjoy health and vigor and are free from impurities that would be entailed upon their posterity, it is contrary to the teachings of the Church artificially to curtail or prevent the birth of children. We believe that those who practice birth control will reap disappointment by and by.”
(First Presidency {David O. McKay, Hugh B. Brown, N. Eldon Tanner} Letter to presidents of stakes, bishops of wards, and presidents of missions, 14 April 1969)

“Decisions about birth control and the consequences of those decisions rest solely with each married couple. Elective abortion as a method of birth control, however, is contrary to the commandments of God.” (Taken from lds.org today)
Click to expand...
Thank you for doing this legwork.

It seems that the first statement parallels the Lambeth council’s thoughts that contraception should be quite rare and the second is a full blown cave-in just like Protestantism’s.

It thoroughly answers my question.
 
we all know catholic and non catholic christians dont give glory to a little green man. sigh…i’m taking a few more months off of this site. i would like to have some peace without having to defend and fight all the time, and this site has alot of stuff to stand against and i dont want it gettin into my home. i dont know if appolegetics truely belongs in our hands the people who are just saved, and no one special. i dont think the purpose of the arguement to many of these people is to know God or to Repent or to Believe in Jesus. i really think its divisions most of these people are presenting. i think that the the job is in the wrong hands bieng open to all to respond. i would gladly be denied the oppurtunity to respond to these combative words. cause i’m sorry but its just words when there is no Jesus in it. and my eyes cant see the posters eyes as they ask and i have no idea what good this is doing to debate argue and defend. Faith is Lived not Just SPOKEN. i wish all christians could see jesus everywhere he is and acknowledge him in all he is. wrath or mercy and salvation and grace. and who here who speaks the truth will die on the stake for it? why do we need to fight when we arent brought to a king or earthly court or prison in danger of our life if we dont speak the truth to go to hell. what is the purpose of all these questions when do hearts change for a mulititude of words? i think this is a waste online, it should be a meeting and a person to person event not something people can type heartlessly or act like thier heart is in it then walk away from computer proud of thier words. i’m sorry. either i’m onto something for good of all, or its just for my own good if there be any good in it. i cant give someone a hug or put medicine on a cut from here, how are we defending the faith in a faceless online site? even if there be God’s word in it. whose heart will change and love God and desire mercy and to be mericiful because of online forums. why arent we asking preists instead of everyday people? sorry but the rest of this site is good, but maybe we should pray for more priests and nuns and go to them. or a pastor with no hatred or predjudice or accusation against God’s people/ where is God in the internet typed out and walked away from? what does it prove if its not with our hands and hearts we give the water?
 
Guestseeking, I’ve been here since April 2008 and can reassure you that sometimes people are helped closer to Jesus through online forum contact.

As you indicate, example of faith lived well is the most powerful way to witness the Lord and to witness gospel living. It is true that we need to listen to Jesus’ words and to heed them in our lives.
Saint Francis of Assisi said, "Preach always, and when necessary, use words.

I agree that arguments and discussions in online forums do sometimes appear not to achieve much more than any school debate, and can become less concerned about the truth than being right, often without reference to the gospels and to Church documents. However often also the opposite occurs and there are times when discussion does enlighten people’s understanding and even promotes conversion of soul in the Lord…

It is wonderful that you view relationship with Jesus as so essential. Yes, it is. May the Lord continue to bless you,

regards, Trishie
 
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