Catholics... Just As Bad As Protestants?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Singinbeauty
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Thanks for hanging out and reading the posts, we are not all bad over here. There are some who aren’t the nicest and some who just get a little tired of attacks. If you stay on these forums, you will see why, we commonly are attacked for being Catholic, which leads some to be a little gun-shy.

Catholicism is all about unity and that is why we get a little perturbed with the divisions in Christianity.

So which church do you attend? I like to talk to my friends from Calvary Chapel, are you a part of Calvary Chapel?

God Bless
Scylla
 
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Singinbeauty:
I should clarify…
When I made the statement about religion being man-made I was not so much speaking of christianity itself (believing Jesus is the risen Messiah) but about the different denominations sprouting up out of the ground…
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Well then since the Catholic Church didn’t sprout from the ground in the last 500 years (or less in the case of the non-denoms), but from the apostles and Christ Himself, you shouldn’t have any problems at all.

Here’s a place where you can get the answers for a great many of your questions. The Catholic Answers Tract Library
Pax tecum,
 
Church Militant:
Well then since the Catholic Church didn’t sprout from the ground in the last 500 years (or less in the case of the non-denoms), but from the apostles and Christ Himself, you shouldn’t have any problems at all.

Here’s a place where you can get the answers for a great many of your questions. The Catholic Answers Tract Library
Pax tecum,
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I don’t see anywhere where I said that I only had problems with denoms sprouting out of the ground in the last 500yrs… Hmmmmm… You added that.

I have to say that I do not believe that the catholic church is the one and only church started and established by Jesus himself. And I haven’t found anything close that leads me to that conclusion as of yet. If it was He would have told us to follow catholic traditions and each of those traditions that make you catholic and separate you from other denoms would be spelled out in scripture just as the jewish traditions are in the OT. Some of the traditions and followings I don’t fully understand but I will check out that link. Thank you!
 
Singinbeauty said:
What I believe…

I am NON DENOMINATIONAL. I do not commit to ANYONE except God and Jesus Christ. No MAN will tell me anymore what to think and how to believe when it comes to my faith. I am a CHRISTIAN. I believe that Jesus Christ came to this earth to be the sacrifice needed to save us. I believe that if you believe with all your heart that Jesus is the way (the ONLY way) to God then you are going to Heaven. No matter what you do in this life. God looks at your heart not your actions. This means that if you TRULY believe that Jesus is who He said He was you will strive to follow His teachings. You may faulter but God does not punish you for being human. Why would God create us to react in certain ways to certain situations and then condemn us for reacting in such ways? If God is a Just God then He would not do this.

Bottom line… ALL religion is MAN-MADE but a relationship with God is MADE BY GOD…
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Thank you for clarifying what you yourself believe. Until very recently, those were my beliefs as well.
In reply to your original post, I don’t think I’ve ever met a Catholic who got angry or defensive with me about their faith. I have met plenty of Protestants who do this, though. From this I could come to the conclusion that it’s the Protestants who have all the problems; however, I choose to believe that it’s human beings in general who have all the problems. On this board, I would say that as long as you ask your questions in a civilized way, you should be all right. Before you ask a question, though, do a forum search and/or check out the apologetics articles on www.catholic.com. Just in the past few days, I have noticed that the exact same questions keep getting asked, and that’s bound to make anybody a little less than patient. Also, be specific if you have an objection to a particular scriptural interpretation. It doesn’t help for you to just say, “I don’t understand why you interpret this verse this way.”
Welcome to the board, and I hope you contribute and learn a lot.
 
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Singinbeauty:
I don’t see anywhere where I said that I only had problems with denoms sprouting out of the ground in the last 500yrs… Hmmmmm… You added that.

I have to say that I do not believe that the catholic church is the one and only church started and established by Jesus himself. And I haven’t found anything close that leads me to that conclusion as of yet. If it was He would have told us to follow catholic traditions and each of those traditions that make you catholic and separate you from other denoms would be spelled out in scripture just as the jewish traditions are in the OT. Some of the traditions and followings I don’t fully understand but I will check out that link. Thank you!
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What CM ment, I think, is that the Catholic Church can claim (with very, very good reason) to be the original “denomination” of the Apostles-she can even trace her bishops back to the original bishops of the early church. Its believes line up very well with the early church, which by that I mean, the Church that St. Paul and the Apostles and their successors and pupils belong to. For example, St. Ignatius of Antioch, an apostle of St. John, said

“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (*Letter to the Romans *7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (*Letter to the Smyrnaeans *6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

Regarding the Eucharist. Its reasonable to expect that St. John didn’t get it wrong, and that neither did St. Ignatius of Antioch. If you have nothing that leads you to believe the Catholic Church is THE Church of Jesus Christ, then seriously look at www.catholic.com and see what you think afterwards;).

And I just noticed you said you’d check that out, so ooops :P.

Enjoy your time here.
 
Hi, SinginBeauty, welcome to CAF! We’ll try to go easy on you. 😉

Seriously, though, most of the Catholics here are very charitable and generous with both their knowledge and their time. If you show respect to them, they will return in kind. In fact, many times they will respond respectfully even if a poster was less so. Just keep in mind that we have many, many Protestants who come here in the fervent hope of converting and/or condemning us. So some people are a bit more jumpy about the way that Protestants present themselves here.

Just FYI - I was raised in a Baptist/Methodist household, but converted to Catholicism in my teens. I took a side trip through Mormonism and a scenic overlook through Fundamentalist Protestantism, but I finally came home to the Catholic Church. I investigated and studied before making that last leg of the trip, then realized that it had to be the One Church that Christ established and that was all it took!

If you are interested in the biblical evidence for Catholicism, I suggest you start with Dave Armstrong’s website. It has many excellent documents and links available. The first document I think you should read is at the address below. From there, you can access his main page and find your way around a veritable wealth of information. 😃

ic.net/~erasmus/RAZ60.HTM
 
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Singinbeauty:
No MAN will tell me anymore what to think and how to believe when it comes to my faith.
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Oh really? Are you not a human being? Are you not claiming that YOU will decide what YOU believe?

Sheesh!

Non-denominationalism is the heresy that Christ made every disciple the pope of his or her own little private denomination. There is NOTHING in scripture that supports this idea. :rolleyes:
 
Hey, have a heart!! I just got through reassuring her that this is a safe place to be…
Chase me with the wet egg noodles, why don’t you? I’m used to you guys. (Besides, I have http://bestsmileys.com/wink/1.gif recipeshttp://bestsmileys.com/cooking/2.gif for People Who Flame Me!!) :yup:
 
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Zooey:
Hey, have a heart!! I just got through reassuring her that this is a safe place to be…
Chase me with the wet egg noodles, why don’t you? I’m used to you guys. (Besides, I have http://bestsmileys.com/wink/1.gif
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recipeshttp://bestsmileys.com/cooking/2.gif for People Who Flame Me!!) :yup:It is safe Zooey. 😛

I wasn’t tryin’ to flame anyone…just point out the lack of history behind the n-C traditions. SinginBeauty seems not to realize that with just a couple of exceptions…all the n-C churches/denoms did indeed sprout from the ground of the deformation (my term) within the last 500 years and the non-denom churches are essentially just more of the same that has evolved from about what? The 1960’s or so?

Singin’,
That link may help you a great deal and I apologize if I came on a little harder than I intended.
Pac vobiscum,
 
Singinbeauty,

Please remember, we are not here to pick fights or to gang up on those with varing beliefs. You are most WELCOME here and I (along with other) look forward to a healthy exchange. Just remember, we are human and we all have opinoins…some of us are more vocal than others (and with some, like me and my sense of humor - take them with a grain of salt).

Please clarify a point for me:
I am NON DENOMINATIONAL. I do not commit to ANYONE except God and Jesus Christ. No MAN will tell me anymore what to think and how to believe when it comes to my faith.
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Where do you go to church and who leads the church?
 
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Matt16_18:
Oh really? Are you not a human being? Are you not claiming that YOU will decide what YOU believe?
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Yep! That is exactly what I am saying. I go to a non-denom church and the pastor there does his sermon then I go home and study over what he talked about and come to a conclusion of whether or not I agree. He will not tell me what to believe, just present his ‘case’, and luckily I have agree’d with him thus far.
Sheesh!
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Non-denominationalism is the heresy that Christ made every disciple the pope of his or her own little private denomination. There is NOTHING in scripture that supports this idea. :rolleyes:
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So says you… but Jesus talked to the masses as if He was talking to each individual person. We are to decide whether or not we believe the information presented to us why should we follow blindly thereafter? I believe that the ‘church’ Jesus spoke of was CHRISTIANITY. Not the catholic church since that orginization was not established at that time in the form you see before you today.

PSST You just verified my Original Post by your answer by the way. Jumping down my throat instead of talking to me with maturity. Calling my way of faith ‘heresy’ when I said nothing of what I thought of catholocism… I am not here to tell you whether or not you are wrong or blind… why do that to me with such hate? sigh :rolleyes:
 
Singinbeauty - What is your hope with coming to the Catholic Answers forums?
 
I have grown up hearing that the catholic church is BAD. Almost a cult. Knowing that all of us are christians I want to better understand my brothers and sisters and why they practice the way that they do. There are many things I don’t understand that is catholic and so here I am… looking to understand.

But a point I should make first… I have dyslexia which affects my ability to communicate clearly sometimes, so if I seem to be attacking more often than not it’s not the case. I am just having a hard time getting my message across. Bear with me and ask questions to clarify. I will be more than happy to explain further. 😃
 
SinginBeauty, many people have welcomed you here and would love to talk to you. I for one, yet you seem to have focused on the minority with a little stronger opinion of non-denominationalism.

I know it is easy to find the posts you want to try and make a point, that Catholics are just bashing Protestants. You have made some statements that are extremely offensive to some of us here, but most of us just let it go in order to talk to you.

So which church do you go to? I would really like to know since I used to go to Calvary Chapel and I feel I can relate to you a little.

In Christ
Scylla
 
Hey, nice post, now that makes a lot more sense. My wife used to always say the same thing, “The Catholic Church is bad”, oh it would bother me. But I realized she was attacking what she thought the Catholic Church was. And if it was what she thought it was I wouldn’t like it either.
So bless you for coming here and we will be happy to tell you all the reasons Catholics believe what they do.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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scylla:
SinginBeauty, many people have welcomed you here and would love to talk to you. I for one, yet you seem to have focused on the minority with a little stronger opinion of non-denominationalism.

I know it is easy to find the posts you want to try and make a point, that Catholics are just bashing Protestants. You have made some statements that are extremely offensive to some of us here, but most of us just let it go in order to talk to you.

So which church do you go to? I would really like to know since I used to go to Calvary Chapel and I feel I can relate to you a little.

In Christ
Scylla
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I am so sorry… I kept meaning to address this question but for some reason it would slip my mind when I got to posting my message… I truly apologize. I go to Calvary Community Church
in Sumner, WA… I linked the name to the church’s website… 🙂
 
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Singinbeauty:
So says you… but Jesus talked to the masses as if He was talking to each individual person. We are to decide whether or not we believe the information presented to us why should we follow blindly thereafter? I believe that the ‘church’ Jesus spoke of was CHRISTIANITY. Not the catholic church since that orginization was not established at that time in the form you see before you today.
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The problem as I see it is that too many people like to quote one little sentance in the bible and not reconcile it with everything else in the bible. This is of course not only an issue with Protestants, but with everyone for the most part. So with that disclaimer, I beleive taht the the Catholic church does reconcile the whole of the bible together. For instance, in opposition to your statement that Jesus was talking to individuals and that he didn’t have a particular church in mind, look at Revelations:

Rev 2:7
Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
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Rev 2:17:
Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches
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Also Rev 3:6, Rev 3:13

From a Catholic standpoint these make sense. We are all fallen, and are not completely able to hear the Holy Spirit at all times. If we don’t look to a solid foundation then we can be led astray. Note that the church is not just one person, it is more than that. Certainly individuals in the Catholic church can be wrong, but on matters of faith and morals we do need absolute guides that don’t just change with the moral compass of the world.

Also note that we are to follow Christ. What did Christ do while on earth? Did he make his own decisions? Or did he ALWAYS do the will of the Father. He, of course, was able to hear the Spirit and the Father perfectly, while we are not. So, just listening to ourselves does not put us in the path of Christ.

As I’ve been reading parts of Revalations recently, these sections have really jumped out at me, hopefully they will also help the discussion here.

Bless you,
 
Hello Singinbeauty;

First, welcome to the forums. I can’t speak for others, but I promise to be kind, provided that you return the courtesy to me. 🙂 Now let me add my two cents…

You wrote:
So says you… but Jesus talked to the masses as if He was talking to each individual person. We are to decide whether or not we believe the information presented to us why should we follow blindly thereafter? I believe that the ‘church’ Jesus spoke of was CHRISTIANITY. Not the catholic church since that orginization was not established at that time in the form you see before you today.
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Christ spoke of a church, but he did not refer to his church as the “christian” church or the “catholic” church. These are descriptive terms that were first coined by men to describe the body of believers in Christ. The term catholic was used by the early church to describe a member who adhered to all of the doctrines taught by the church. There were many who professed to be followers of Christ while in fact their beliefs were far from the truths taught by Christ and the Apostles and handed down through the Church. Hence the term “catholic” became the term by which the fullness of belief in the truths of christianity was identified. Unfortunately, history has separated catholic christianity from reformed christianity. But both Catholic and Reformed followers of Christ are properly called Christian.

From the Catholic perspective, we believe the Catholic Church - led by the Pope as the successor of Peter - is the true church that has remained steadfast in the faith, while from a reformed tradition one is taught that the Catholic Church drifted into heresy and Christianity was literally reclaimed or reformed from Scripture alone. This history suggests to anyone that unless one side or the other slipped entirely into apostacy there must be some common ground between the two traditions. Your posts seem to miss this conclusion and instead paints the Catholic Church as a development that occurred entirely outside of true Christianity. (This may only be my perception, so please correct me if I’m wrong here.)

My sincere question to you is- Do you believe that your own personal faith shares anything in common with the Catholic faith? If so, then we may have some solid common ground from which to have an interesting discussion. Please tell me what you believe we share in common and don’t be shy about getting specific.

Peace
 
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yochumjy:
The problem as I see it is that too many people like to quote one little sentance in the bible and not reconcile it with everything else in the bible. This is of course not only an issue with Protestants, but with everyone for the most part. So with that disclaimer, I beleive taht the the Catholic church does reconcile the whole of the bible together. For instance, in opposition to your statement that Jesus was talking to individuals and that he didn’t have a particular church in mind, look at Revelations:

Rev 2:7
Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Click to expand...
Rev 2:17:
Whoever has ears ought to hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Those verses you provided are true and I agree whole-heartedly… I never said and I truly hope it was never conveyed in my messages that you should not listen to the church and the guidance it provides but I am saying that I take everything with a grain of salt. With a world so full of hurt and pain and confusion I want to make sure that I agree with what someone is telling me for a lot of the time interpretation is built on experience. I hope I am making sense
 
My sincere question to you is- Do you believe that your own personal faith shares anything in common with the Catholic faith? If so, then we may have some solid common ground from which to have an interesting discussion. Please tell me what you believe we share in common and don’t be shy about getting specific.
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I believe that Jesus Christ came to this earth to walk amoung men and became a living sacrifice for you and me. He died and rose again to wash us of our sins past, present, and future. God offers each and every one of us this gift of salvation and it is up to us to accept it. He offers it to each soul who walks this earth. The Holy Spirit lives within the body of Christ and works within us to renew us and bring us through hard and good times. I am sure there is more but it will come with more specific questions…
 
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