Catholics married by a judge?

[Missy68]

I am having a problem not obsessing about this, and need some advice.

Recently, an aquaintance of mine was divorced and in the process of getting an annulment. This divorced woman’s new husband, a widower, is in the Knights of Columbus, although not an active member. My husband is very active in the same council. There is also a judge in the same council who is very active, suffering in ill-health and in his 70’s or 80’s. The annulment didn’t go through as of the planned wedding date, so they moved the wedding to the new husband’s backyard and had the judge marry them in a civil ceremony. A week later, it was announced that the “bride” is 17 weeks pregnant.

I am angry and have no idea why. Well, one reason is that I’m jealous due to my own infertility issues, but I feel angry because I think that the judge should not have married them. It seems like they duped him. I don’t think that he would have married them if he had known that she was pregnant… or I think he shouldn’t have. Am I wrong?

I know that the reason they didn’t just wait until the annulment went through was because she was pregnant, but so what? She’s still married to her first husband in the eyes of the church and has 3 children from that marriage. Her new “husband” has 2 children. so now they’re living like a big happy family, going to church & whatnot.

I’m appalled at this entire situation and even more appalled with myself over thinking about it. Is this something that I will be able to get over? Should I bring it to confession? Or spiritual direction? I don’t even know where to begin to help myself get over it.

Thanks.

 

[1ke]

I don’t think that he would have married them if he had known that she was pregnant… or I think he shouldn’t have. Am I wrong?

He’s a Catholic and has no business participating in-- actually making it possible– two Catholics attempting an invalid marriage. To do so is itself a mortal sin.

No, it is not wrong to see this as wrong-- it is wrong, from start to finish. Fornication, adultery, scandal, and defiance of Church authority-- they’ve squeezed a lot in there.

 

[mdgspencer]

If it is something that is seriously troubling you it is time to start praying much, and too asking God to give you light and spiritual peace.
I don’t like jealousy, and I think you should try to resist it. Anger though can be all-right. Christ was angry sometimes.

 

[otjm]

First, I am sorry that you have not been able to conceive. Issues such as that can reach right down to the rotos of who we see our selves as. It is not an easy cross, and less so when one tries to live life as the Gospel calls us, and see others not doing so.

You are probably right that there is an issue of jealousy involved, and dealing with that is important for you own peace of mind.

As to what they are doing, it is easy to presume that everything is right in thier world and none in yours. The old phrase of walking a mile in another’s moccasins comes to mind… what we perceive as reality is often not. That is not to suggest in any way that what they are doing is right; it is more an issue of your own internal peace.

As to saying anything about the issue to anyone, if you have to speak to anyone, make it your confessor, and on a day that you will not be rushed and others will not be delayed from the Sacrament of Reconcilliation; in other words, make an appointment. Other than that, it is no one’s business, and speaking to anyone else can border on gossip. Do not use the excuse that you are upset about it to speak with anyone else; and if someone else brings it up, simply say “let’s pray for them”, and then start a prayer - any will do, a Hail Mary is just fine. That usually solves the problem.

While you are worrying this issue, pray for them. It would appear they could use some prayers. And keep in mind Christ’s admonishin to remove the pole from our own eye before helping our brother with the sliver in theirs.

Keep also in mind that you have no idea what her life was like in the previous marriage. It may have been any number of scenarios; again, that is not to justify in any way what they have done; but ultimately it is up to them to come square with God; and if they have, it is not for you to judge their status. You do not know if they are having sexual realtions or living continently. You do not know if they have gone to Reconcilliation or not, and if so, what the priest said to either one of them. Ulitmately they are resposnible to God for their choices, and He has not only given us laws to follow, but also assured us of His continuing love and willingness to forgive even before we ask. Pray for their reconclliation with God and then move on in your life.

 

[Hellisreal]

He’s a Catholic and has no business participating in-- actually making it possible– two Catholics attempting an invalid marriage. To do so is itself a mortal sin.

No, it is not wrong to see this as wrong-- it is wrong, from start to finish. Fornication, adultery, scandal, and defiance of Church authority-- they’ve squeezed a lot in there.

If a Catholic Judge had to evaluate each couple’s status with the Church prior to granting them a civil union, I dont know…

Anyway- even though I agree with your post in spirit I think we need to remember it was not a Priest doing this and not a Church wedding.

Always something positive to find in such things.

 

[1ke]

If a Catholic Judge had to evaluate each couple’s status with the Church prior to granting them a civil union, I dont know…

These are not strangers of whom he has no knowledge. These are two people who are known to him. He knows their situation.

it was not a Priest doing this and not a Church wedding.

Exactly my point. The Catholic JP *knowingly *participated in the attempt at an invalid marriage by two other Catholics. This is prohibited and he should not have done such a thing.

 

[Missy68]

These are not strangers of whom he has no knowledge. These are two people who are known to him. He knows their situation.

Exactly my point. The Catholic JP *knowingly *participated in the attempt at an invalid marriage by two other Catholics. This is prohibited and he should not have done such a thing.

Yes, he did know of their situation because as of the Thursday before the Saturday wedding, everything was scheduled in the Church to be performed by the Msgr. But when the annulment didn’t come in on Friday, they switched everything to the backyard. I don’t know if her pregnancy & the JP not knowing that fact mitigates anything, but the whole thing seems so wrong.

The problem is that she’s in my RENEW group. Right now we’re studying apologetics. 2 years ago she was in my RENEW group, which basically broke up because of her divorce. The RENEW group got back together, with less people… the people who think she didn’t try hard enough to save her marriage left and did not want to come back because they felt it had become a counseling service rather than a bible study.

I don’t know if I should be in the RENEW group or not. The ironic thing is our group is studying Apologetics. And it feels like there’s this elephant in the room that no one wants to acknowledge.

 

[puzzleannie]

you are right to be appalled and scandalized, because this is a perfect story to illustrate the meaning of the word scandal.
Not only the judge, who should know better, but the msgr. erred if he scheduled a wedding for a couple who is not free to marry.

leaving your emotional reactions aside, the damage this kind of public “statement” makes is incalculable not only to strong Catholics, but especially to new or marginal Catholics who are just now learning and trying to understand Church teachings on marriage, or coping with similar situations of their own.

that does not give us the right to judge the state of the soul of any of the participants in this sorry case, but we are certainly free to analyze objectively the morality of the actions. We must remember, however, that we do not know all the facts, and cannot know them. We do not know what counselling either of these people has received in confession and how they are comporting themselves, and we are obliged in Christian charity to assume the best case scenario.

Please pray, sounds like this family will be in desperate need of prayer.

if you are asking, how do we handle these things when they become a danger to our own spiritual health, I guess pray is also the answer. I have read many times in writings of the saints that when the flagrant sinful actions of another cause a great deal of anxiety, pain, even jealousy, that is a sign to turn and pay attention to our own spiritual health. Like a dream where an image may be a clue to something else, the anxiety may be directed away from a painful area of our own, toward another’s actions. I think Francis de Sales talks about this (among others). Guess as the nun’s would say, don’t look at somebody else’s paper and copy their mistakes, pay attention to your own work.

 

[ltbpoe43]

You are correct. Two (or 3 or 4) wrongs don’t make a right.

What can you do but pray.

Pray to relieve your stress about it. Pray that forgiveness is provided where needed. Pray that a union so troubled to start with can be a happy one for the children involved and the families.

Prayers for peace and comfort for you soon.