Catholics Missing the China Boom?

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ASimpleSinner

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From my blog:

blog.ancient-future.net/2007/08/catholics-missing-china-boom.html

Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia

atimes.com/atimes/China/IH07Ad03.html

This intriguing article was just sent to me about the growth of Christianity in China. I found it to be a fairly interesting article in and of itself… But what really intrigued to begin with - before even having read it - was the comment offered by the fella who sent it my way.

He writes:

"Pentecostalism is quite obviously the dominant force of neo-Christian evangelization. These people are getting in touch with Jesus without the Catholic Church. However doctrinally deficient their theology, successful (often using untruths) attempts to tear down Catholicism, and often employing the promises of the health and wealth gospel, almost all Protestant methods of evangelization smoke the Catholic methods, hands-down, for a variety of reasons. "

I ask:

Is this the Chinese Century?

Will the Chinese become the missionaries of the West?

Has the Catholic Church dropped the ball on mission work as our numbers worldwide appear - at first glance - to be smaller?

Relative to the ecclesiology and theology of the Catholic Church and Pentecostal/Evnagelical communities… Might this in fact have much to do with it?
 
I found “Spengler”'s article interesting but not particularly convincing.

If Christianity becomes “Sino-Centric” by mid-century, who’s to say that whatever Chinese Christianity that may develop to be the dominant force in Chinese society could do so without becoming something unrecognizable to us today as Christianity? Is it not just as likely that some sort of open-ended syncretism, such as the Chinese have long been good at developing and perpetuating, be as likely an outcome of Christian evangelization as any other?

Currently the Chinese, having endured more than a century of humiliation at the hands of Western or Westernized powers and a few decades of communism, a Westernizing project, are infatuated with all things that have the whiff of modernity about them – Prosperity Gospel Christianity included. Once the Chinese get used to, naturalize, capitalist modernity might religions like Pentecostalism lose some of their appeal? (This may already be happening in places like Brazil, where conversion to “evangelical sects” has been slowing down for the past decade – in the face of growing secularism as well as a reviving Catholicism – and the developed nations of the West export not only their Christianity but also their atheism/agnosticism).

Confucianism is also reviving in China and with some encouragement from the state. Taoism and Buddhism are also showing renewed vigor. Christianity, both international versions and indigenized/syncretistic versions, will add to a diverse religious market – a religiously pluralistic China that is even 20% Christian is hardly one that would launch an anti-Muslim crusade against Mecca (as “Spengler” fantasizes it might).
Barred from churches, Chinese began worshipping in homes, and five major “house church” movements and countless smaller ones now minister to as many as 100 million Christians. [2] This quasi-underground movement may now exceed in adherents the 75 million members of the Chinese Communist Party; in a generation it will be the most powerful force in the country.
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A coherent, centrally coordinated network like the Communist Party would remain the dominant force in society if it all it had to contend with was a multitude of “house churches” which might constitute a “movement” of some kind, but hardly a network. It might turn that some day a Catholic Church no longer divided between an underground church and a patriotic association would constitute the second most powerful network in Chinese society after Communist Party. The “lack of infrastructure” which promotes the rapid expansion of Pentecostalist churches today may in the long run limit their power to influence Chinese government and society as a whole.
Where traditional society remains entrenched in China’s most backward regions, Islam also is expanding. At the edge of the Gobi Desert and on China’s western border with Central Asia, Islam claims perhaps 30 million adherents. If Christianity is the liquidator of traditional society, I have argued in the past, Islam is its defender against the encroachments of leveling imperial expansion.
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This is an odd bit. As far as I know, if Islam is expanding, it is only because of national increase among non-Chinese ethnic groups who are not subject to the one-child-only policy – and in China, the imperial expansion that Islam is helping resist is that of the Chinese state itself.
That is why so-called civil society, the capillary network of associations that manage the ordinary affairs of life, is so essential to democracy… Freedom of worship is the first precondition for democracy, for it makes possible freedom of conscience. The fearless evangelists at the grassroots of China will, in the fullness of time, do more to bring US-style democracy to the world than all the nation-building bluster of President George W Bush and his advisers.
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Chinese civilization got on quite well for centuries without what we call “civil society” – in great part because it had a state that was actively concerned with the people’s welfare while European states were still primarily extorters of taxes. There’s no reason to believe that the house churches won’t be coopted (or ignored) by the state as many other small sects have been throughout Chinesde history. In Western history, the emergence of civil society required the establishment of distinct power structures, the secular and the church – the Catholic Church. Who’s to say that a Catholic Church accepted as an alternative focus of loyalty to the state within Chinese society won’t do more to democratize Cbina than the multitude of house churches?

Just some thought…
 
This is off the cuff and from what I remember of an article I read about the Church in China. That Rome is starting to recognize the Bishops that are part of the “official” church in China. A merging of the underground and goverment approved church is under way. Please, if some can correct or add, please do. Tim
 
thesis misses the point that the first Christian missionaries in China were Catholic, and that the persecution of the Communists against Christianity is directed primarily at the Catholic Church, since that is seen as the most dangerous counter-communist institution.
 
ASimpleSinner said:
From my blog:

blog.ancient-future.net/2007/08/catholics-missing-china-boom.html

Christianity finds a fulcrum in Asia

atimes.com/atimes/China/IH07Ad03.html

This intriguing article was just sent to me about the growth of Christianity in China. I found it to be a fairly interesting article in and of itself… But what really intrigued to begin with - before even having read it - was the comment offered by the fella who sent it my way.

He writes:

"Pentecostalism is quite obviously the dominant force of neo-Christian evangelization. These people are getting in touch with Jesus without the Catholic Church. However doctrinally deficient their theology, successful (often using untruths) attempts to tear down Catholicism, and often employing the promises of the health and wealth gospel, almost all Protestant methods of evangelization smoke the Catholic methods, hands-down, for a variety of reasons. "

I ask:

Is this the Chinese Century?

Will the Chinese become the missionaries of the West?

Has the Catholic Church dropped the ball on mission work as our numbers worldwide appear - at first glance - to be smaller?

Relative to the ecclesiology and theology of the Catholic Church and Pentecostal/Evnagelical communities… Might this in fact have much to do with it?
Click to expand...
Pentecostals promise sensual experiences and worldly gain in this world. Catholicism promises suffering and poverty in this world, just as Christ did. The broad way is easy and many will find it, that leads to destruction…
 
Genesis315 said:
Pentecostals promise sensual experiences and worldly gain in this world. Catholicism promises suffering and poverty in this world, just as Christ did. The broad way is easy and many will find it, that leads to destruction…
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Oh really, lucky i hail from a protestant church that teaches both…God bless , God bless…
And moreover our church are constantly making trip to China, helping the local chinese there to build more churches…so happy that God kingdom can flourish in China:D
 
I don’t post often in this forum but this thread caught my eye because I just finished reading a 2002 article of Crisis Magazine that talks about the Church in China called “A Tale of Two Bishops.” Fascinating read; those interested in this topic may appreciate.👍
 
Genesis315 said:
Pentecostals promise sensual experiences and worldly gain in this world. Catholicism promises suffering and poverty in this world, just as Christ did. The broad way is easy and many will find it, that leads to destruction…
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As a partially chinese catholic, I find the government’s position on Catholocism is rather paranoid about the Role of the Pope. It is terribly sad I cannot openly practise in that country.
 
colliric said:
As a partially chinese catholic, I find the government’s position on Catholocism is rather paranoid about the Role of the Pope. It is terribly sad I cannot openly practise in that country.
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It is iroic that the PRC is so very paranoid about the influence of the “outsider” Pope of Rome on a small group of Catholics (small relative to the rest of the population!) when you consider the explosive growth of the internet and satelite TV in China.

There best efforts to sensor and control the net are only as effective as their lease savy hackers.

When you consider the vast difference that there is between the influence of Western Media and the influence of the Pope, one doesn’t have to think very long and hard about which might be the better influence!
 
Simply becoz China are having problem with Pope the sole Authority of RC. In some part of China you are very much open to build your church. There is a business woman from my church who donate a huge amount of money to build churches in China (cannot remember which province) and with the stage government approval 👍
Praise the Lord for that. In fact the Christian community are growing each day in china (sort of a underground thingy, coz they can’t have outdoor crusade) but amazingly the numbers flow like running water!!!

My church back in Singapore have a monthly mission trip to different part of China to evangelize, of course most of the time trying every possible way to bring bible into China, although it is tough, but God always path his way for us.

As for Catholic, not sure how there evangelize, but if i’m not wrong China have more Christian then Catholic !!!
 
happygal said:
Simply becoz China are having problem with Pope the sole Authority of RC. In some part of China you are very much open to build your church. There is a business woman from my church who donate a huge amount of money to build churches in China (cannot remember which province) and with the stage government approval 👍
Praise the Lord for that. In fact the Christian community are growing each day in china (sort of a underground thingy, coz they can’t have outdoor crusade) but amazingly the numbers flow like running water!!!

My church back in Singapore have a monthly mission trip to different part of China to evangelize, of course most of the time trying every possible way to bring bible into China, although it is tough, but God always path his way for us.

As for Catholic, not sure how there evangelize, but if i’m not wrong China have more Christian then Catholic !!!
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the sole reason is that Catholicism is NOT allowed to exist in china, because of the law. They don’t like Catholics.
 
colliric said:
the sole reason is that Catholicism is NOT allowed to exist in china, because of the law. They don’t like Catholics.
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Well you have to understand why they are bearable to Christian over Catholic, as mentioned it is because of the Pope Authority thingy. That is the style of China government, you can have Catholic church in China, unless the Priest are those picked by the government lol:shrug:
Anyway it does really matter, Christian are doing all the work for God in China, so Praise the Lord for giving us strength and power to do so.
 
happygal said:
Well you have to understand why they are bearable to Christian over Catholic, as mentioned it is because of the Pope Authority thingy. That is the style of China government, you can have Catholic church in China, unless the Priest are those picked by the government lol:shrug:
Anyway it does really matter, Christian are doing all the work for God in China, so Praise the Lord for giving us strength and power to do so.
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All the work? Are you familiar with the historical and ungoing contribution of the Catholic Church to the Chinese?

Also, Catholics are Christians. If you mean to refer to Evangelicals/Pentecostals, that’s fine. If you disagree with out teaching as being heterodox or in error (from what I have followed of your writing, you seem to generally hold to that idea…) well that is fine too.

But even if you think us in error and our ancient faith heterodox, please don’t imply that we are not Christians. I was baptized in Christ. I live for Him. I love Him. Even if you think how I do so isn’t the true way to do it (and the Catholic Answers Forums are the place to discuss just that) at least allow us the simple dignity of being called Christians.
 
happygal said:
Well you have to understand why they are bearable to Christian over Catholic, as mentioned it is because of the Pope Authority thingy. That is the style of China government, you can have Catholic church in China, unless the Priest are those picked by the government lol:shrug:
Anyway it does really matter, Christian are doing all the work for God in China, so Praise the Lord for giving us strength and power to do so.
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As the previous user pointed out, what you seem to be forgetting is that Catholics are in fact Christians too, the oldest kind of Christians. Remember that Christianity has two major strains of theology/belief, either Orthodox(the Catholic and Orthodox Churches) or Protestant(the type of Christianity you are referring to when you said “Christian”). Next time you should say “Protestant Christianity over Catholic Christianity” and in the last sentence “Protestant Christians are doing the work”, because otherwise you do sound anti-catholic because you imply that Catholics are not Christian, when they actually are.
 
colliric said:
As the previous user pointed out, what you seem to be forgetting is that Catholics are in fact Christians too, the oldest kind of Christians. Remember that Christianity has two major strains of theology/belief, either Orthodox(the Catholic and Orthodox Churches) or Protestant(the type of Christianity you are referring to when you said “Christian”). Next time you should say “Protestant Christianity over Catholic Christianity” and in the last sentence “Protestant Christians are doing the work”, because otherwise you do sound anti-catholic because you imply that Catholics are not Christian, when they actually are.
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Bear in mind, I don’t think “Protestants are doing the all the work” would be accurate either! Catholics ARE working there.
 
Just like every other authoritarian government over the centuries, the Chinese government favours non-Catholic groups over the Catholic Church because the former are small and limited to within national borders so the government can control them, but no government can tell the Catholic Church what its doctrines and practices are to be, because the Church is international and independent.
When and if the glorious day comes when the atheist Communist Chinese government, the most genocidal and brutal government in the history of the world, is consigned to the dustbin of history, the Catholic Church will be able to flower freely for all to see.
 
Petergee said:
Just like every other authoritarian government over the centuries, the Chinese government favours non-Catholic groups over the Catholic Church because the former are small and limited to within national borders so the government can control them, but no government can tell the Catholic Church what its doctrines and practices are to be, because the Church is international and independent.
When and if the glorious day comes when the atheist Communist Chinese government, the most genocidal and brutal government in the history of the world, is consigned to the dustbin of history, the Catholic Church will be able to flower freely for all to see.
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I hope they never venture into Hong Kong and impose the same restrictions on the diocese there… I’m happy that at least one major city in greater China has a REAL Catholic Church.
 
colliric said:
I hope they never venture into Hong Kong and impose the same restrictions on the diocese there… I’m happy that at least one major city in greater China has a REAL Catholic Church.
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Many major cities do!

Hong Kong just has the distinction of not being underground!
 
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