Catholics need to sharpen our debating skills...and increase our charity

  • Thread starter Thread starter Neithan
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
Wozza:
Maybe we shouldn’t be teaching God to children in the first place. It has to be simplified to the point where it becomes meaningless and you end up with Sunday School versions of biblical events which all to easily sow doubts into young minds as they start questioning things. It becomes a house built on sand.
When’s the last time you’ve been to Sunday School? I’ve got kids, do you (asked in a non-accusatory, curious and very non-pejorative manner - pardon please if I offend)?
Last time? When I was a kid. But ‘Sunday school versions’ doesn’t relate to any specific Sunday school. It’s meant to suggest religious teachings simplified to the point where they are understandable by small children.
 
… Except that the abortion was requested by doctors from the NHS (the UK socialized medicine agency), which is not part of the judiciary but rather the executive.
Now you cannot be serious to suggest that medical decisions made by qualified doctors working for the Civil Service can lead one to believe that there is some Marxist plot afoot.

You have stretched the argument past breaking point.
 
Last edited:
we have to become experts at engaging the culture with compelling arguments
“Catholics need to sharpen our debating skills…”
No. I don’t think that becoming an expert at arguing is what is needed. I think what is needed is to give good examples in our daily lives.
.
A good example by not using artificial birth control.
A good example by not getting a divorce or marriage annulment which requires a divorce.
A good example by promoting love, reconciliation, understanding and helpfulness in marriage.
A good example by not getting an abortion.
A good example by at the very least attending Mass every Sunday and holy day.
A good example by avoiding as much as possible all entertainment which features blasphemous or profane words or situations.
A good example by driving carefully and respectfully at all times; in particular, when leaving the Church parking lot.
A good example by being respectful to your parents if you are a child and by being respectful and loving to your child if you are a parent.
Etc., etc.
 
The main point (also made by Bp. Barron) is to engage challenges to the Catholic faith with charity. You have a good list too, and everyone builds the church in the way they are inspired — and following the moral precepts are a minimum expectation, or to least strive to do so, not as a burden, but a good guide to happiness: that’s the example that will move others towards the truth.
 
Last edited:
Marxist plot afoot.
You’re thinking in terms of people. A Red Scare. Communists among us like in a bad 1950s movie. You’re not looking at the ideas and assumptions that are baked into society and culture. Ideas like that a “qualified doctor” knows more than some African Catholic immigrant about what is right or wrong. That “us” (the NHS) know better than “them” (immigrants) about what they need. That healthcare is a limited resource that the state needs to control and ration. That people with disabilities are a liability to the state. Those are Marxist ideas in their origin, regardless of how they are labeled or presented today.

It’s hard to critique ideas that a person has internalized because the person thinks they’re being attacked.
You have stretched the argument past breaking point.
Well, the Marxists themselves don’t seem to think so…

And with that, I really am leaving. Take care.
 
Last edited:
40.png
Wozza:
Marxist plot afoot.
You’re thinking in terms of people. A Red Scare. Communists among us like in a bad 1950s movie. You’re not looking at the ideas and assumptions that are baked into society and culture. Ideas like that a “qualified doctor” knows more than some African Catholic immigrant about what is right or wrong. That “us” (the NHS) know better than “them” (immigrants) about what they need. That healthcare is a limited resource that the state needs to control and ration. That people with disabilities are a liability to the state. Those are Marxist ideas in their origin, regardless of how they are labeled or presented today.
Point one: What on earth are the scare quotes doing around the term ‘qualified doctor’? That’s a direct insult to all the men and women who have studied for very many years and work ungodly hours for low wages within the NHS to help people in need.

Point two: They are certainly in a better position to make medical decisions on a young woman who has the mental age of a nine year old then the woman herself. Whether their decision is morally acceptable is another matter and worth debating. But that they are not in a better position to make it is risible.

Point three: The doctors ARE the NHS. Just as the nurses, the orderlies, the cleaners, the office workers are the NHS. To try to slide an extra argument in by claiming that they are entirely different just gives you two bad arguments for the price of one.

Point four: Your claim that it’s the government (via the NHS and hence ‘qualified doctors’) versus immigrants is laughable. Notwithstanding that one in eight people working for the NHS are actually foreign nationals themselves. And there is a significant percentage of people within the NHS that are either not British born or are second generation.

Point five: People with disabilities are the ones that benefit most from a National Health Service (to give it its full name). A system that is enabled by the contributions every single person in the UK makes to it, unless you are unemployed. The amount you pay is dependent on what you earn. The rich pay more. The poor pay less.

Point six: I classed myself from a political stance as someone you might class as a socialist. It seems that anyone who thinks taxation is a good idea brings out the tar and feathers. But if you think support for the NHS makes someone a Marxist, I will proudly claim myself to be one.
 
Last edited:
Beautiful post. The Lay people are called to live a Catholic life, love God, follow His precepts, and support His Church. I fall constantly, especially here on this forum. It’s not the job of the laity to convince anyone or to change their heart. Why engage in any debate?

The vicious back-and-forth on this very thread solved nothing. Most faith-based debates will end harming or scandalizing the Church because of the lack of education or training. Instead of debating, catechize existing Catholics.

The ‘nones’ as they are called will not be convinced to come to the Catholic faith through a debate with the Laity. A layperson will never speak authoritatively for the Church, and every non-Catholic person knows that. They may come as a result of Catholic people living authentically and true to their faith. They may come as a result of observing a beautiful and exquisite liturgy.

But evangelization to the unbelievers? Maybe we should evangelize our own households first.
 
Last edited:
What one Church is doing:

COMMUNICATION GIFTS

Focus: Transforming lives through communicating truth

EVANGELISM

Empowers a Christian to be an effective channel of God’s love by sharing the faith with others in a way that draws them to become disciples of Jesus and responsible members of his Church.

NEEDS:

PROPHECY

Empowers a Christian to be a channel of divine truth and wisdom by communicating a word or call of God to individuals or a group through inspired words or actions.

NEEDS:

TEACHING

Empowers a Christian to be an effective channel of God’s truth and wisdom by enabling others to learn information and skills that help them reach their fullest spiritual and personal potential.

NEEDS:

PARISH Religious Formation seeks catechists who have encountered our Lord, who are living for His Will to be done, are in friendship with Jesus and desire to lead our children to Him. Call
 
A good example by driving carefully and respectfully at all times; in particular, when leaving the Church parking lot.
This one made me chuckle but it really is true! I can hear some irate driver being cut off from someone leaving a church parking lot and exclaiming, (those darn Catholics” or Methodists, or Baptist’s…etc. you get the picture.) Sometimes the littlest, stupidest things can really leave a bad impression. Charity in ALL things…
 
It’s been my expereince that those who really need the advice won’t listen to it. I’m on the road a ton (I drive a truck) and every time I see highway warning signs I chuckle. No one who needs to read them will…read them.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top