Catholics NOT in Communion with Rome

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JaKael02

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How are heterodox Catholics to view orthodox Catholics?

In our current Western culture, it’s common to see people who identify as Catholic yet do not practice. Also, some Catholics may practice but do not conform their conscious to the truths of the Church and willfully accept immoral teachings.

How are we to identify them? Are they considered Catholic by virtue of their baptism only but are members in a grave state? What are Catholics who live in mortal sin state without regards to their state?

Thank you,

james
 
You might get posts deleted from here if you mention specific individuals. Suffice it to say, any public figure or Catholic who obstinately denies a tenet of the faith excommunicates him/herself automatically (aka latae sententiae). Thus, there are likely many people professing to be Catholic who are better described as excommunicated Catholics. *Can. 1364 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or doubt, after baptism, of a truth which must be believed by divine and catholic faith. Apostasy is the total repudiation of the christian faith. Schism is the withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or from communion with the members of the Church subject to him.*
 
MarcoPolo said:
Can. 1364 An apostate from the faith, a heretic or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or doubt, after baptism, of a truth which must be believed by divine and catholic faith. Apostasy is the total repudiation of the christian faith. Schism is the withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or from communion with the members of the Church subject to him.[/INDENT]
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A bishop has to enforce this correct?

FYI, I’m not referring to our wonderful Catholic politicians :rolleyes:

More specifically, many individuals I know who are willfully heretical.
 
JaKael02 said:
A bishop has to enforce this correct?
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No, a latae sententiae excommunication occurs automatically. If a bishop determines a public one should be declared, he will do so, hopefully. And it is probably extremely rare for a bishop to declare this about a non-public figure.
 
Marc - I read the Canon law you stated. It’s more complicated than I can understand. But if 70% of Catholics use contraception, then you are saying 70% of Catholics are excommunicated? Am I interpreting you correctly?
 
Honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was exactly what he meant. The truth is, I don’t think the Church actually lives up to its own rules because it can’t. It can’t afford to excommunicate everyone who doesn’t believe, contraception for instance, is a mortal sin.
 
What of those Catholics who say abortion is not the most important issue, or that allowing “marriage” for same sex couples is socially just and should be legalized, despite the teachings of the Church? If these folks declare these sentiments publicly and believe them earnestly, have they excommunicated themselves?
 
It’s not my job to decide who is excommunicated and who isn’t. Nor is it any of our jobs…But the point is, because the Church won’t make these definitive statements, it’s impossible to know where to draw the line. My point is, the Church can’t do this or else it would lose a giant section of its congregation.
 
Faithdancer said:
What of those Catholics who say abortion is not the most important issue, or that allowing “marriage” for same sex couples is socially just and should be legalized, despite the teachings of the Church? If these folks declare these sentiments publicly and believe them earnestly, have they excommunicated themselves?
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Since we can’t judge their soul, it’s not a matter we can give a definate answer.
However, I would not want to be ‘in their shoes’ when we face our Almighty God.
 
So if your in a state of mortal sin; how does the Church view you? B/c not adhereing to Church teaching, when you know better, is an act of mortal sin.
 
Kotton said:
Since we can’t judge their soul, it’s not a matter we can give a definate answer.
However, I would not want to be ‘in their shoes’ when we face our Almighty God.
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I put my faith and trust in Almighty God before any person!
 
JaKael02 said:
Marc - I read the Canon law you stated. It’s more complicated than I can understand. But if 70% of Catholics use contraception, then you are saying 70% of Catholics are excommunicated? Am I interpreting you correctly?
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If they realize contraception is an immutable teaching and they willfully defy it, then yes. There are probably a lot of people who have incurred automatic excommunication and are without excuse. God ultimately knows how culpable they are for their defiance.

With regard to contracepting, even some knowledgeable married persons could be preserved from automatic excommunication. For instance, certain degrees of ignorance or lack of freedom in the relationship could impair the person’s complicity in the act, or make it a lesser or non-sin. For instance:*Special difficulties are presented by cases of cooperation in the sin of a spouse who voluntarily renders the unitive act infecund. In the first place, it is necessary to distinguish cooperation in the proper sense, from violence or unjust imposition on the part of one of the spouses, which the other spouse in fact cannot resist.46, 561).] This cooperation can be licit when the three following conditions are jointly met:

  1. *]when the action of the cooperating spouse is not already illicit in itself;47
    *]when proportionally grave reasons exist for cooperating in the sin of the other spouse;
    *]when one is seeking to help the other spouse to desist from such conduct (patiently, with prayer, charity and dialogue; although not necessarily in that moment, nor on every single occasion).

    (Vademucum for Confessors, Pontifical Council for the Family, 1997)*And…Holy Church knows well that not infrequently one of the parties is sinned against rather than sinning, when for a grave cause he or she reluctantly allows the perversion of the right order. In such a case, there is no sin, provided that, mindful of the law of charity, he or she does not neglect to seek to dissuade and to deter the partner from sin. (Pope Pius XI, Casti Connubii, #59, 1930)
 
MarcoPolo said:
If they realize contraception is an immutable teaching and they willfully defy it, then yes. There are probably a lot of people who have incurred automatic excommunication and are without excuse. God ultimately knows how culpable they are for their defiance.
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Thanks marco, you already gave an ample response, so I hate to keep adding extensions to my Q’s. But I alwyas heard on Catholic Answers Live that if you denouce Church teaching, it’s an act of Mortal Sin, but they never mentioned auto-excomm…

If someone is auto-ex… then they are still considered Catholic by virtue of their Baptism, but they reside outside of the Church’s grace?
 
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