Catholics not Knowing and Quoting Scripture

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clwheestro:
Why is it that many Catholics do not know nor can quote scripture? I went to Catholic school, took Reliigion classes and have been Catholic all my life, but I don’t recall really studying the Bible. I did not really begin to learn scripture and study the Bible that gives me the ability to quote it until a few years ago while conversing with my Baptist friends. I began reading the bible more, listening to some evangelists and understanding more of the Bible. Also, why are there more books in the Catholic Bible than the King James Version?
“Dei Verbum” is a beautiful document from Vatican II which encourages the reading of Sacred Scripture. Too bad it takes so long to implement so many of these things !

You can find it and download it on the Papal website, also on EWTN’s website.

If you attend Mass daily, in three years you would have heard the while Bible read from the pulpit !

👍 nj
 
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Catholic4aReasn:
Catholics use the Septuagint version of the Old Testament, the one that was around in the time of Christ. In about 100 AD a group of rabbis came up with a new list or books in an effort to remove anything they believed supported Christianity. They accepted only books written in Hebrew so this canon is now called the Hebrew canon. It excluded 5 whole books and two partial books that are included in the Septuagint.
As far as the Jewish Encyclopedia is concerned, this is roughly correct, although certain parts of the canon had already been fixed well before that date.
 
I have ripped most of this from “Why Do Catholics Do That?” by Kevin Orlin Johnson.

The first of Judaism’s sacred books (Gn, Ex, Lv, Nm, Dt) were written about 1250 B.C. These are known as the Torah and are the basic scripture for the Israelites. As the Jews formed their national identity and God revealed more of his nature and their mission, they wrote more and more books to explain these developments. That is how we got Js, Jdg, Kgs, and Chr (which used to be called Paralipomenon, Greek for “things left out” of kings). That’s why the prophecies of Ez, Neh, and others were written

But the Israelites wrote lots of other books, too. Such as the Words of the Days of the Kings of Israel and the parallel books for Juda mentioned in Kings. They wrote commentaries on every little point of every Law of Moses and opinions and sayings o great teachers, educational books using the name of some long-dead prophet who might have said (or ought to have said) such things. By 200 B.C. it got hard to tell where the books left off and the commentaries began.

Help came from a very unexpected quarter: the Pharaoh of Egypt, Ptolemy (the Greek speaking successor to Alexander the Great). He decided he wanted his library to have a copy of every single book in the world, all in alphabetical order. The problem was that he couldn’t make much sense of the mountains of Jewish writing and the covenant – like many of the Jews themselves. He commissioned seventy Jewish scholars to come up with a standard canon of scripture and a standard version of each book in the canon.

The 46 books the seventy (hence Septuagint) scholars came up with constituted the standard canon the was used right up to the time of Christ. These were the books that let his disciples recognize him (Jn 1:45) and reading them makes it very hard to deny that Christ is the Messiah. Every thing in these books points to that conclusion: not just the prophesies, but also the laws, poems, and even histories, which center around that one remarkable family from which he was born.

Outside the Church these books have had their share of tribulation. In the year 70 the Roman Emperor Titus led his armies into Jerusalem to put down a rebellion. They completely destroyed the Temple of Jerusalem and carried off the Ark of the Covenant and all of the necessary temple furnishings in triumph to Rome. You can still see them represented in the sculptures of the Arch of Titus.

The hard core of rabbis who still denied Jesus couldn’t perform the liturgies required by the Torah without the Temple. They undoubtedly thought the Ark would be brought back and the Temple rebuilt just like it had been dozens of times before. Their leader, Jochanan ben Zakkai, took them out to the village of Jamnia where they could assess the situation. They were determined to preserve the sacred trust as they understood it.

They need to develop a new form of Judaism that would unite all Jews, at least until the Temple could be rebuilt, and to undercut the Christian’s claims of the divinity of Jesus and his identity as the Christ. So, they assembled a new version of Jewish scripture, omitting some books entirely and rewriting others. This resulted in the Jamnian, or Palestinian canon, and it changed Judaism forever.

Protestant Reformers like Luther, Wycliff, Huss, and Calvin rejected certain tenants of Christianity. Of course, deletions or innovations are prevented by Sacred Tradition (which the Reformers therefore rejected entirely) and the New Testament (which they rephrased freely). But Christian teachings are also supported and clarified by the Old Testament. If the Reformers wanted to deny the importance of works in the Cycle of Redemption, they’d have to got rid of whole books like Tobit; to deny the existence of Purgatory, they’d have to dispose of Maccabees [1) You can find phrases in the New Testament that point to Purgatory, and 2) the Jewish Festival of Lights, Hanukkah, comes from the Maccabees]. Even then, they’d have to rephrase all of the remaining verses that echoed these teaching. That’s why the Jamnian canon appealed to them. The rabbis wrote it, after all, to remove the basis for a lot of the teachings that the Protestants were themselves rejecting. So the Reformers took the Septuagint out of their Bibles and substituted their own translations of the Jamnian canon.
 
I used to be a Southern Baptist preacher, and I was bugged by the fact that there was a large amount of people ignorant of the Word of God. It is not just a Catholic thing, though Catholics have their problems too and need to study the Scriptures.

I totally diagree with those who say that we should not learn to quote Scripture. St. Augustine quoted the Bible almost 43,000 times in his writings. It is something that we Catholics need to be rivived about and have a passion for. No wonder there are Evangelicals out there who think that Catholics don’t know Christ. St. Jerome said that “An ignoranace of Scripture is an ignorance of Christ.”

Protestants have the meat and potatos of Scripture, but we as Catholics have the whole buffet of Scripture and Tradition. We need to show them that we know our faith and our Bibles!
 
Also, why are there more books in the Catholic Bible than the King James Version?
I have read that the original version of the King James Version had the deuterocanonical books (the ‘extra’ books that Catholics have in the OT) in it. So, originally the KJV did have the books. I find this funny because I was raised and still am a member of a Fundamentalist church(I’m only 20, and I am thinking my way away from Fundamentalism towards Catholicism). I have encountered many Fundamentalists (and more recently have argued with them) that believe that the KJV is the ‘inspired’ English version of the Bible. I wonder why it is that when the KJV was ‘inspired’ it had the deuterocanonical writings, yet these Fundamentalist who believe the KJV is the inspired English version do not accept the deuterocanonical writings. Slightly humorous to me.

Micah
 
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copland:
I totally diagree with those who say that we should not learn to quote Scripture. St. Augustine quoted the Bible almost 43,000 times in his writings. It is something that we Catholics need to be rivived about and have a passion for. No wonder there are Evangelicals out there who think that Catholics don’t know Christ. St. Jerome said that “An ignoranace of Scripture is an ignorance of Christ.”

Protestants have the meat and potatos of Scripture, but we as Catholics have the whole buffet of Scripture and Tradition. We need to show them that we know our faith and our Bibles!
Copland, I I think your comment about not learning to quote Scripture is directed in part to my post below. Even if my post isn’t the one to which you are referring, I’d like respond (no offense is taken Copland at all 😃 ). I don’t disagree with you that we shouldn’t know the Scripture intimately. Please reread my post about how too many people who have memorized quotes from the Bible do so to serve an agenda without regard to the context in which the Author (Holy Spirit) intended. If we read the Bible with first to spirit to understand God’s message as intended, we will learn to quote the Bible but we will quote it consistent with intent. Too many Evangelical Protestants read the Bible looking for “proof” to serve their agenda and this is what I reacted too.
 
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copland:
I used to be a Southern Baptist preacher, and I was bugged by the fact that there was a large amount of people ignorant of the Word of God. It is not just a Catholic thing, though Catholics have their problems too and need to study the Scriptures.

I totally diagree with those who say that we should not learn to quote Scripture. St. Augustine quoted the Bible almost 43,000 times in his writings. It is something that we Catholics need to be rivived about and have a passion for. No wonder there are Evangelicals out there who think that Catholics don’t know Christ. St. Jerome said that “An ignoranace of Scripture is an ignorance of Christ.”

Protestants have the meat and potatos of Scripture, but we as Catholics have the whole buffet of Scripture and Tradition. We need to show them that we know our faith and our Bibles!
Being able to quote the bible is not proof that you read and understand the bible. YOu can have a great love for the bible and read it every day, but if you never take the time to memorize the verses you won’t be able to quote verbatum.

My Baptist neighbor’s seven year old can quote many verses from the bible but he hasn’t yet learned to read the bible.
 
In reality, this shouldn’t be an either/or question. As Catholics, we should be be as familiar as we can with the “Big Picture” of salvation as we find it in the Scriptures–the general historical flow, the key people and events, the proper manner to approach the various genres found in Scriptures. If we do this, we can be more aware of Scripture in it’s original context, and not be tempted to just mouth off verses out of context. This is how we can make the readings we hear at Mass come alive rather than hear them as “nice stories” that we don’t really understand.

How well a person can become familiar with the “Big Picture” will, of course, be based on an *honest * self-assessment of the individuals time and resources. But there is no excuse for not making an attempt.

Having said that, there is also room for memorization of particular verses or passages of Scripture. The reasons are two-fold:
  1. Apologetics - order to defend our Faith against anti-Catholic “Bible Christians,” we have to know Scripture. Scott Hahn says, in his experience, fundamentalists know only about 15 Scripture verses–but they know them really well. When someone is spouting off 10-15 verses, it sounds like 100 to someone who doesn’t know any. The secret is to know those 15 verses --but 15 more that rebut them. There’s a ton of apologetics resources that can help you do that.
  2. Memorized Scripture is a shield and a sword in times of temptation or trouble. When you are in pain or so at your wits end about a situation that you can’t even pray, the memorized Word will come to you and be a comfort. Some of my favorites in this regard are Proverbs 3:5-6, Matthew 6:34 and 1 Corinthains 10:13.
 
I do apologize if my post was taken personally by anyone on here, it was not directed to any one post. I do just want to express that I believe too many Christians make excuses when it comes to learning the Bible. I totally agree that being equipped to Bible thump people by quoting more verses is not doing our Faith much justice. Though, learning the Scriptures is something that we as Catholics need to take very seriously because as St. Hilary said, “The Scriptures reveal a much deeper meaning to the patient student than to the momentary hearer.” Our Faith is directly linked to the Scriptures and we only benefit when we not only recognize a verse when it is read in Mass but when it is written in our hearts and in our mind, and can even share it with others in it’s proper context.

I guess I have seen too many Catholics have the ‘deer in the head lights look’ when they are confronted with Scripture by a Protestant. This needs to stop! We need to show that the Catholic Faith is the home and heart of the Scriptures.
 
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clwheestro:
Why is it that many Catholics do not know nor can quote scripture? I went to Catholic school, took Reliigion classes and have been Catholic all my life, but I don’t recall really studying the Bible. I did not really begin to learn scripture and study the Bible that gives me the ability to quote it until a few years ago while conversing with my Baptist friends. I began reading the bible more, listening to some evangelists and understanding more of the Bible. Also, why are there more books in the Catholic Bible than the King James Version?
I don’t want to be judgmental, but you must have been distracted during the readings of scripture in the Mass all those years. The Mass itself contains many prayers based on scripture. You have been exposed to a lot of important scripture if you are who you say you are.

The Church says that fundamentalism is wrong, and fundamentalism is associated with a lot of quoting of scripture, which is an unfortunate coincidence. You should be reading scripture for yourself each day, if possible.
 
Actually at the age of 17, 30 years ago I was confused about life, so I walked the 1 mile to my local newspaper shop bought a Bible and read it from cover to cover.
Don’t remember how long it took me to read it, but eventually I got through it, I found it quite enjoyable to be truthful.
I sort of have a photographic memory when people bring up things about the Bible, ( don’t ask 🙂 I just remember things, and it’s like flashbacks).
Don’t get me wrong I was given extensive RE by the Christian brothers, and the Nuns, but I suppose I was hungry for knowledge.
So the Bible is a wonderful book and my favourite parts are the Gospels,Proverbs, Wisdom, and Revelations, why I don’t know, I just like them.
But even after all my reading I didn’t and still don’t understand many parts of the Bible.
It was 25 years later that I even understood the “Don’t cast your perils before swine” after a Priest explained it.
I also listened to Bible study from the USA on S.Wave & MW, it was fine, but now I’m glad EWTN is on here.
Anyway I’ll stop ranting heres a Bible study online you can complete in one year to whom it may concern.

catholicdoors.com/bible/1year.htm

I like this link >catholicdoors.com/misc/help.htm
 
Historically the church never encouraged catholics to read the bible…indeed most people couldn’t read, let alone Latin or Greek. It was not until the reformation that the bible became widly available. Prior to this it was the clergy and monks that had sole custody of the bible.
 
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Cdn.freethinker:
Historically the church never encouraged catholics to read the bible…indeed most people couldn’t read, let alone Latin or Greek. It was not until the reformation that the bible became widly available. Prior to this it was the clergy and monks that had sole custody of the bible.
How are you suggesting the bible could have been widely available when the printing press wasn’t invented until the 13th century? Since they were hand copied by monks for use in the Church wouldn’t these rare copies most logically be in the custody of monks and clergy? Please elaborate on how you believe the bible could be without a printing press or copies desired by people who couldn’t read?

Reading the bible without the guidance of the holy Spirit will get you absolutely nowhere.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
Nancy

I agree with your first two points completely.

Your third point is causing me some difficulty. That is like saying you cant understand Tom Sawyer without having Mark Twain looking over your shoulder.

In Humanity
🙂
Bob
 
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clwheestro:
Why is it that many Catholics do not know nor can quote scripture? I went to Catholic school, took Reliigion classes and have been Catholic all my life, but I don’t recall really studying the Bible. I did not really begin to learn scripture and study the Bible that gives me the ability to quote it until a few years ago while conversing with my Baptist friends. I began reading the bible more, listening to some evangelists and understanding more of the Bible. Also, why are there more books in the Catholic Bible than the King James Version?
I’ve noticed this too,
Not with all Catholics, but a few of them. I was walking around my school with a few of my Catholic buddies, and some how our discussion went to our favorite Bible verses. I quoted a few and they just looked at me in awe. And said, and I quote, “Wow, you must be really religiouse!” I was a little bit shocked. I didnt really know what to say. I guess I just had the assumption that if you were a Christian you would take the time to dive into th Word. Now I know not all Catholics are like this but it seems to be a trend.
 
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Cdn.freethinker:
Nancy

I agree with your first two points completely.

Your third point is causing me some difficulty. That is like saying you cant understand Tom Sawyer without having Mark Twain looking over your shoulder.

In Humanity
🙂
Bob
You might come to some understanding reading it alone, assuming you were reading it within it’s proper historical, cultural and literary context. How much greater your understanding would be, however, with the author as your guide.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
Nancy

Ah yes…the “C-word”…Context!

How beleivers love to use “context” …

In just what context should the killing of babies, the raping of women, genocide, slavery, etc be taken? :confused:

🙂 Bob

Why did Jesus have to pay for our sins? Why not make the Devil pay? :confused:
 
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Cdn.freethinker:
Nancy

Ah yes…the “C-word”…Context!

How beleivers love to use “context” …

In just what context should the killing of babies, the raping of women, genocide, slavery, etc be taken? :confused:

🙂 Bob
“Context” really isn’t a believer thing but really the only way one can hope to understand just about anything of historical signficance that one reads.

You seem to be equating “context” with “condoning”, as though putting scripture in its historical context would somehow excuse or explain away baby killing, rape and slavery. Why are you doing that?
Why did Jesus have to pay for our sins? Why not make the Devil pay? :confused:
Because the Devil is not perfect. The need for a perfect sacrifice cannot be understood outside of,you got it…the context of the Old Testament sacrificial system.

In Christ,
Nancy 🙂
 
I read my bible…but I usually don’t memorize the specific passage numbers or anything like that unless I’m using them for lessons or references. I don’t think it’s a matter of Catholics not knowing scripture because we practice it every Sunday in mass, the whole mass is based off of scripture, in prayers, the Hail Mary is completely biblical, and in Catholic dogma, Tradition, and practices…all of us may not be able to quote passages and numbers, but I believe that we do know Scripture
 
clwheestro
I did not really begin to learn scripture and study the Bible that gives me the ability to quote it until a few years ago while conversing with my Baptist friends. I began reading the bible more, listening to some evangelists and understanding more of the Bible.
We are each responsible for our own learning. As a faithfilled Catholic, I am responsible for reading and understanding Scripture, the Liturgy and the Catechism. If I have a question, I approach my priest, not my neighbor, a TV evangelist or the jw knocking at my door.
If one does not know his/her Faith, then how can the person have a relationship with God? We are called to do more than sit in a pew each Sunday.
 
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