"Catholics" on Birth Control

[larry85704]

Example that supports assertion please. Did the priest really tell people to beat others?

Well, was I supposed to record the homily and post the recording on the web?

 

[larry85704]

For someone that uses big words like gratuitous it is curious that you seem to have a problem with consistency.

 

[Scottgun]

Back in my collage days, I remember my religious education teacher, a priest, tell us that Augustine had a mistress most of his life. He struggled much with sex. In the end he was baptized and received into the Church. He was actually baptized late in life. My teacher told us that he just wasn’t ready to give up the joys of his mistress for the Church. These facts are very easy to verify.

Look up St Augustine on the net. You you folks trust the Catholic Encyclopedia?

I don’t see anything that indicates that he formally declared the Church wrong on an issue of sexual morality.

Well, was I supposed to record the homily and post the recording on the web?

No. One example would be sufficient. Just saying a priest was saying to do things that would get them in jail without telling us what it was he said that land them in jail…you get the idea. What did he tell them to do that would land people in the clink?

For someone that uses big words like gratuitous it is curious that you seem to have a problem with consistency.

Gratuitous is a big word? Also, I would need an example of where I was being inconsistent.

 

[FLCathMom]

Back in my collage days, I remember my religious education teacher, a priest, tell us that Augustine had a mistress most of his life. He struggled much with sex. In the end he was baptized and received into the Church. He was actually baptized late in life. My teacher told us that he just wasn’t ready to give up the joys of his mistress for the Church. These facts are very easy to verify.

Look up St Augustine on the net. You you folks trust the Catholic Encyclopedia?

You are disproving your own point with this. St. Augustine did not become Christian until after he gave up his mistress. He understood that he could not call himself Christian while living immorally.

 

[1234]

So, are you saying, the Church is abandoning those in need and instead are oppressing the current members with unrealistic expectations? And they are leaving the Roman Catholic Church in droves to your church because your church is more charitable and “free thinking”?

The church I am describing is** not **my church. It’s a large non-denominational church that is hellping support this woman in her time of need. Her local Catholic church didn’t. And “free thinking” doesn’t come into it; it’s all about support, which is what she needs.

…but I suspect that many RC’s *are *leaving their church in *droves *(your word, not mine) because of this.

…and the non-Catholics *are *making huge inroads in Central and South America where, apparently, the local RC churches aren’t meeting the needs of the local people…

 

[Scottgun]

Anecdotes do not data make.

 

[newbetx]

The church I am describing is** not **my church. It’s a large non-denominational church that is hellping support this woman in her time of need. Her local Catholic church didn’t. And “free thinking” doesn’t come into it; it’s all about support, which is what she needs.

…but I suspect that many RC’s *are *leaving their church in *droves *(your word, not mine) because of this.

…and the non-Catholics *are *making huge inroads in Central and South America where, apparently, the local RC churches aren’t meeting the needs of the local people…

OK. So without specific data about assistance or missionaries(such as statistics) anything we say is conjecture. I’d be really ignorant to think that NOBODY slips through the cracks in any organization’s attempt to help people.

And I won’t deny people leave the CC for various reasons including “guilty feelings associated with ABC.” I can guess as to why, though. It’s because they, too, do no understand it. That is why a majority of American Catholics disregard the teachings. I know that’s why I did. Good explainations of this don’t come in 10 min homilies.

Would you, by chance, have any stories of non-Catholics getting aid from your church that they didn’t get from their churches? Maybe your church does have a great methodology for helping others we need to know about.

You say that many at your church are probably ex-Catholics. Any idea how to find out for sure?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I am recently talking to this women who is on BC, claims to be catholic, and says everything is ok with it. She says that her priest and even the bishop has told her that it is simply ok and that she is fine and can continue to take communion. She is one of these feminist types and she absolutely won’t listen to anything I have told her.

I told her what she is doing is a sin. And I have doubts that a priest actually told her specifically it was ok. The priest probably was avoiding the issue or wanted to conclude on a neutral note, and thus she thought he was justifying her. What can I do to help this woman? She is taking communion in mortal sin everytime and it seems she thinks everything is ok.

Using BC does not stop people being Catholics. Even if it is a mortal sin in a particular instance, that person is still a Catholic, because mortal sin as such does not stop one being Catholic. Only heresy, schism & apostasy do that - & none of these is involved. So she is as much a Catholic as most of us here. (“Most”, because our Protestant brethren can’t be included.)​

As to whether another person is in mortal sin, the most an observer can tell is that the person appears to be; but although one can make a prudential judgement that another person may be, one has no way of knowing that the person is. It is in case useless to expect that people who know of this woman only indirectly are in any position to comment on her status before God.

 

[PetersKeys]

Back in my collage days, I remember my religious education teacher, a priest, tell us that Augustine had a mistress most of his life. He struggled much with sex. In the end he was baptized and received into the Church. He was actually baptized late in life. My teacher told us that he just wasn’t ready to give up the joys of his mistress for the Church. These facts are very easy to verify.

Look up St Augustine on the net. You you folks trust the Catholic Encyclopedia?

listen, that is absolute"you know what"…

I have read St. Augustines confessions, and well as City of God and his other ECF volumes. I have the whole 38 vol set… St. Augustine admited he had problems with sex before his conversion and he did have a mistress before he enetered into the church…

Just because he had a mistress before he became christian dosen’t mean anything. And he admited that it was a sin and his problem. However after he converted and became bishop he renounced all those things. You can’t base past actions on what a person teaches at the present. Many of his writings condemn those type of relations after his conversion and he has experience with it because he was such an out of control person when he was young. It was his mother who was his great helper and he really looked up to her.

 

[PetersKeys]

Using BC does not stop people being Catholics. Even if it is a mortal sin in a particular instance, that person is still a Catholic, because mortal sin as such does not stop one being Catholic. Only heresy, schism & apostasy do that - & none of these is involved. So she is as much a Catholic as most of us here. (“Most”, because our Protestant brethren can’t be included.)​

As to whether another person is in mortal sin, the most an observer can tell is that the person appears to be; but although one can make a prudential judgement that another person may be, one has no way of knowing that the person is. It is in case useless to expect that people who know of this woman only indirectly are in any position to comment on her status before God.

Isn’t saying and thinking birth control is ok in the church a heresy in itself? Claiming ABC is ok to take in the Catholic Church is apostasy. Heresy is anything that goes against the doctrines of the church. And accepting ABC definately qualifys.