Catholics please explain the trinity

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I am not a catholic, by your definition I am not even a christian. All though I believe in Jesus Christ the son of God as my Savior, I do not believe that God my father in heaven, his son Jesus Christ and the holy ghost are one spiritual being. They are 3 seperate and distinct individuals. Could you please explain why you claim otherwise when so many scriptures show them as being seperate and even being seen together as seperate beings?
 
We believe you can contemplate the Trinity all your life, getting ever closer to understanding, but never quite reaching the full comprehension, because such knowledge is beyond human understanding. But we do have to believe some ideas we don’t understand. Of course, all people believe ideas they don’t understand.
 
God the Father created us, then, came to Earth as God the Son, died, and was resurrected into God the Holy Spirit. 😃

It’s easier to get than you think. 😉

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood
 
Are you a JW?

Anyway, you just have to analyze scripture:
Jesus is God:

John 8:58, 10:38, 14:10
Col. 2:9

The Holy Spirit is God:

Acts 5:3–4, 28:25–28
1 Cor. 2:10–13

One God:

Mark 12:29
1 Cor. 8:4–6
Jas. 2:19

There are even verses proving they are all one:

Jesus tells his apostles to baptize “in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.

I hope that helps.
 
strngrnrth said:
We believe you can contemplate the Trinity all your life, getting ever closer to understanding, but never quite reaching the full comprehension, because such knowledge is beyond human understanding. But we do have to believe some ideas we don’t understand. Of course, all people believe ideas they don’t understand.
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But where does this teaching come from ? I dont think this was an original teaching of the church so where does the church get this from when scripture says otherwise ?

Luke 23: 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Why would Jesus be talking to himself ? If he is the one to be forgiving as the father, then he has no need to tell himself to forgive ?

Acts 7: 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

How can God and Jesus be one if they are standing next to each other ?

How do you pray ? start with God, or Father and end with in Jesus name ? which is really the same person ?
 
Im not yet Catholic, but I’ll tell you my reason for believing the trinity, or tri-unity, is a correct doctrine.

God as a being is described as infinite, right? So, when considering infinity: 3 x inifinity = infinity. 3 divided by infinity = infinity.

God, being infinite in being can divide or multiply himself all he wants, and it would all be the same 1 infinite God.

I also think we have to remember God is a higher(the highest) dimension than we are. God can be 2 places at once, everywhere at once, be in everything, but not necessarily be everything. If we try to think of God on the same dimensional playing field we are in, then His power and Holy nature are what will be most confusing, and more than likely what will result from viewing God in such a way is doubt on our part that He even exists at all.

I see Muslims (and many Christians as well) imagine their God in the lower dimension, as though He’s an invisible, magical, wizard man sitting on a cloud. This perception is not only limiting to God’s power, it’s contradictory to how God has defined himself.
 
coolduude said:
Are you a JW?
No I am not a JW…

1 Cor. 8:4–6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

If this were one person it would not have to say God the Father AND Jesus Christ the Lord, for just saying God the father would suffice and include all ?

Why does he have to list all titles if it is all HIM ?

There are even verses proving they are all one:

Jesus tells his apostles to baptize “in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

In 2 Corinthians 13:14, Paul writes, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” We see this same unity of divine Persons in 1 Corinthians 12:4–11, Ephesians 4:4–6, and 1 Peter 1:2–3.

but wouldnt these say “which is” instead of AND as in addition to ?

baptize “in the name [notice, singular, not plural] of the Father “which is” the Son and the Holy Spirit”
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Get a copy of *Theology For Beginners *or Theology and Sanity by Frank Sheed for the best explanation of the trinity I have read. *Theology For Beginners *is the easier of the two books.
 
meaprilrain said:
I am not a catholic, by your definition I am not even a christian. All though I believe in Jesus Christ the son of God as my Savior, I do not believe that God my father in heaven, his son Jesus Christ and the holy ghost are one spiritual being. They are 3 seperate and distinct individuals. Could you please explain why you claim otherwise when so many scriptures show them as being seperate and even being seen together as seperate beings?
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If I may ask meaprilrain… who, or what, do believe Jesus to be? and who, or what is the Holy Spirit?
 
we believe that jesus christ was the son of god, incarnate. christ said, “i and the father are one.” he also talked of the coming of the “paracleat” (holy ghost).
there is only one god. he how-ever, has manefested himself in three different but distinct ways. therefore, 3 being in one god. sic.“the holy trinity.” have a good year. (alih)👍
 
Here are some analogies for the Trinity, although they are imperfect analogies, since nothing adequately explains the mystery that is the Trinity.

H2O - this is in the form of ice, water, or vapor. Each is H2O. (The deficiency in this analogy is that H2O can’t be ice, water, and vapor at the same time whereas the Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit at the same time. Where one is, the other other two are.)

the sun - this is a ball of fire, it is light, it is heat. The same thing is manifested 3 different ways. (Again, not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.)

To understand more about the Trinity, you do have to get into theology. I second the recommendation to read Theology for Beginners.
 
Hi

Try reading and praying over this : The Athanasian Creed
  1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;
  2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
  3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;
  4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.
  5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.
  6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.
  7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.
  8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.
  9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
  10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
  11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.
  12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
  13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.
  14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
  15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
  16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
  17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
  18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.
  19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;
  20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.
  21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
  22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
  23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
  24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
  25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.
  26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.
  27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
  28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
  29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
  31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.
  32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
  33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
  34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
  35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.
  36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
  37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
  38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
  39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
  40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
  41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
  42. and shall give account of their own works.
  43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
  44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
It is hard, but not completely impossible, to understand this completely - but it will give you some idea of what the Trinity is, and how it is possible for God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit to be three persons yet One.

We hold a reasoned Faith - not a Blind one.

Peace and Blessings

John
 
I do not believe that God my father in heaven, his son Jesus Christ and the holy ghost are one spiritual being. They are 3 seperate and distinct individuals. Could you please explain why you claim otherwise when so many scriptures show them as being seperate and even being seen together as seperate beings?

**The whole point is they are NOT separate beings.

They are three Persons in one Ousia (usually rendered “substance” or "essence in English).

Keep in mind that these words have technical theological and philosophical meanings here.

If you want to think in terms of arithmetic, think of multiplication, not addition:

1 x 1 x 1 = 1**
 
meaprilrain said:
I am not a catholic, by your definition I am not even a christian. All though I believe in Jesus Christ the son of God as my Savior, I do not believe that God my father in heaven, his son Jesus Christ and the holy ghost are one spiritual being. They are 3 seperate and distinct individuals. Could you please explain why you claim otherwise when so many scriptures show them as being seperate and even being seen together as seperate beings?
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God cannot be explained - we cannot even see the sun directly; so how shall we see the God Who is far greater than any number of suns, Who created the sun, & all others things visible & invisible ? God can be obeyed, & He can be loved: but He cannot be explained. He certainly cannot be treated as an arithmetical brain-teaser. :cool:​

The Divine Persons are distinct - not separate from one another. Your hands are distinct from your arms, but not separate[d] from them; one hopes not anyway 🙂

The Divine Persons are not separate, & don’t need to be - God is not a cheese, which can be cut into only so many slices, because there only a limited amount of it. God is Spirit: IOW, He is not material. so:
  • does not occupy space
  • has no size
  • & is not limited
    A cheese is material - so it does occupy space, is of a certain size, & is limited as a result. God is Uncreated & Infinite - so He cannot be compared to His angels either; even though they are spirits: for they are not uncreated, but are created by God.
The Divine Persons are not like separate, or rather, different, cheeses; nor even like separate slices of a single cheese. They indwell One Another: that is what the Bible says of each one; & what is is true of each One, must be true of all Three together. How this can be, may be easier for us to grasp, if we remember that we are “in Christ”, Who is in us, & in the Father & in the Spirit. If this is true for us - & it is - why is it hard to believe that there are Three distinct Divine Persons Who indwell One Another ? If Christ is in His Church, & His Spirit is in both the individual & the Church, & the Church is in Christ, Who is in His Father - where is the difficulty ? The Church is not God - but the others are, each one.

It may help to think of the One God as having Three Personalities - but any illustration must necessarily fall very far short of the Reality it seeks to illustrate; & an illustration is not the same as an explanation.
 
meaprilrain said:
But where does this teaching come from ? I dont think this was an original teaching of the church so where does the church get this from when scripture says otherwise ?

Luke 23: 34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

Why would Jesus be talking to himself ? If he is the one to be forgiving as the father, then he has no need to tell himself to forgive ?

Acts 7: 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

How can God and Jesus be one if they are standing next to each other ?

How do you pray ? start with God, or Father and end with in Jesus name ? which is really the same person ?
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You have gotten the Trinity all wrong.
When Jesus prayed to the Father, He was not praying to Himself, because the Father and the Son are not the same PERSON. They are the same BEING.
Similarly, when Jesus was on the Earth, Heaven was not left without its ruler - because the Father was in Heaven. They are not the same PERSON, but the same BEING.

The Church (and no, I’m not going to discuss ecclesiology now, suffice it to say that I disagree with most posters here on what the Church with a capital C is) has taught this from the very beginning, and Holy Scripture is full of evidence of what in theologians’ terms is called “High Christology”.

What was established at Nicea in 325 was not a new teaching, but an affirmation of the teachings of the Church since the beginning - and was done so only because the heretic Arius had gained such a momentum (primarily in the East)
 
If you believe in Scripture----

At the begining of the book of **John **we learn that the “Word” is someone, not something.

1 In the beginning was the Word: the Word was with God and the
Word was God.

2** He** was with God in the beginning.

3 **Through him **all things came into being, not one thing came into being except through him.

4 What has come into being in him was life, life that was the light of men;

5 and light shines in darkness, and darkness could not overpower it.

And if you look at the begining of the book of Genesis you’ll notice God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.

God the Father

2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the **spirit of God **moved over the waters.

God the Holy Spirit

3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made.

The Word of God, before He came in the flesh, Jesus

26 God said, “Let us make man in our own image, in the likeness of ourselves, and let them be masters of the fish of the sea, the birds of heaven, the cattle, all the wild animals and all the creatures that creep along the ground.”

The Holy Trinity

Back to the book of John

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15 John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying: This was he of whom I spoke: He that shall come after me, is preferred before me: because he was before me.
16 And of** his **fullness we all have received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses; grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only **begotten Son **who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Begotten =1. spawn, sire, breed, father, (esp. of a male parent) to procreate or generate (offspring).

Our children share our nature,they are human beings because we are human beings.

Jesus shares His Fathers nature, He is God because His Father is God.

Jesus also shares His mothers nature,He is human because she is human.

All of us have one nature we are human.

Jesus has **two natures **He is both human and Divine. because of His parents.

Jesus is who He is. God and Man is what He is.

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

The Trinity
catholic.com/library/Trinity.asp

The dogma of the Holy Trinity

**253 **
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity."83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

**254 **
The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father,” “Son,” “Holy Spirit” are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: "He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

**255 **
The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

Catechism of the Catholic Church
usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt1art1p2.shtml
 
PraRFLEsEkHm said:
Hi

Try reading and praying over this : The Athanasian Creed
  1. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;
So does this one God appear in vision by the eyes as 2 seperate beings since he sits on the right hand side of the Father ? there is obviously 2 seen to declare he is on the right side ?

I will be getting that book theology for beginners for this is my hardest to understand. I have been raised with a thorough understanding that God the Father is just that, and His son Jesus Christ is a complete seperate individual born of Mary and the divine together.

Someone else said that God was God and created the heavens, then he came down to earth as Jesus the God and was crucified. Then went back to Heaven as God. However he did not leave the heavens unattended so while he was here as God Jesus, he was also there as God the father ?

John 20: 17
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

why is he ascending to himself ? Why is there a need for him to even be different beings at all ? Can God the father not serve in all the capacities needed for his plan of salvation ? I mean couldn’t God the father have created everything and then come to earth and be crucified and return to heaven again just as God the father ? and we would have his spirit always to be with us ? why the seperation in being ? This is alot I know 🙂

It is hard, but not completely impossible, to understand this completely - but it will give you some idea of what the Trinity is, and how it is possible for God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit to be three persons yet One.

so you are saying they are 3 persons ? yet one… do they share the same mind ? or have complete thinkings on their own ?
We hold a reasoned Faith - not a Blind one.

Peace and Blessings

John
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Thank you
 
meaprilrain said:
Thank you
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Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed was earlier recommended to you since it gives an extremely helpful presentation on the Most Holy Trinity. I hope you’ll consider getting yourself a copy as it would be a great resource for you in coming to an understanding of this Mystery of the Faith and other doctrines of the Catholic Church. Here’s a link to the book where you can get more information about it:

amazon.com/Theology-Beginners-Francis-Joseph-Sheed/dp/0892831243
 
fellowChristian said:
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The dogma of the Holy Trinity

**253 **
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity."83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but ****each of them ****is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215): "Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

**254 **
The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 “Father,” “Son,” “Holy Spirit” are **not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another: **"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

**255 **
The divine persons are relative to one another. Because it does not divide the divine unity, the real distinction of the persons from one another resides solely in the relationships which relate them to one another: "In the relational names of the persons the Father is related to the Son, the Son to the Father, and the Holy Spirit to both. While they are called three persons in view of their relations, we believe in one nature or substance."89 Indeed "everything (in them) is one where there is no opposition of relationship."90 "Because of that unity the Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son."91

So actually, there ARE 3 seperate persons or beings. They ARE distinct from one another. You just refer to them as ONE God, because they are all 3 equally divine in their natures they are the same, and because of the greatness of them they share like minds, like goals, like essences, and likeness in their substance. Since they are spirit they in their essence are able to flow together in thought and spirit, nature and substance ? They are not 3 bodies trying to be one, but 3 spirits and essences or substances flowing in and through as one ? You can specify further whether it is God the Father or God the Son, but in essence and spirit and substance they flow together and are one ? Am I getting it somewhat close ?​
 
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