Catholics please explain the trinity

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mlchance said:
Almost. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three distinct (not separate) persons, but they are only one being.

– Mark L. Chance.
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253
The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the "consubstantial Trinity."83 The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but **each of them **is God whole and entire: "The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e., by nature one God."84 In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215): **"Each of the persons **is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature."85

actually number 253 says they are 1 God in 3 persons… and refers to them in the plural as “persons” “EACH of the persons”…
 
meaprilrain said:
So actually, there ARE 3 seperate persons or beings.
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Two problems here:
  1. Not separate persons but rather united. Each have Their respective roles but share the same Will. The Son does the Will of the Father and in no way does the Will of the Son differentiate from that of the Father.
  2. “Persons” and “beings” are not interchangeable.
 
Clearly meaprilrain, you have the concept or understanding of the Trinity out of hand.

Trinity is not separate persons. They are One in essence. Three Divine Persons but ONE GOD.
 
meaprilrain said:
actually number 253 says they are 1 God in 3 persons… and refers to them in the plural as “persons” “EACH of the persons”…
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The adverb you open with indicates that you think you’re contradicting what I said, but you’re not. You had said: “So actually, there ARE 3 seperate persons or beings.”

This statement of yours is inaccurate. The Persons of the Trinity are distinct, but they are not separate. And, yes, there are three Persons, but there is only one Being. As noted above, the terms “person” and “being” are not interchangeable.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
mlchance said:
The adverb you open with indicates that you think you’re contradicting what I said, but you’re not. You had said: “So actually, there ARE 3 seperate persons or beings.”

This statement of yours is inaccurate. The Persons of the Trinity are distinct, but they are not separate. And, yes, there are three Persons, but there is only one Being. As noted above, the terms “person” and “being” are not interchangeable.

– Mark L. Chance.
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Um like he has a split personality but they are all aware of each other !! JK 🙂

ok do they each have their own spirits or are they still just one spirit ? this is so hard it completely contradicts what I have been taught. I just cant grasp 3 persons or beings in one being ?
 
meaprilrain said:
ok do they each have their own spirits or are they still just one spirit ?
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One spirit. They are all one in Being.
meaprilrain said:
this is so hard it completely contradicts what I have been taught. I just cant grasp 3 persons or beings in one being ?
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No one can grasp it. The Trinity is a mystery of faith. We accept its truth because it is found in Scripture and because the Church, which is protected by the Holy Spirit, teaches that it is true.

Still, it is important to realize that all we cannot fully grasp the Trinity, the concept itself is not contradictory or unreasonable. In fact, something like a Trinity seems logically necessary.

Consider: God is perfect. Among other things, this means God doesn’t change. God is also love. This means God’s love must be perfect. God is also personal, meaning he exists in personal relationship to others. Finally, God is eternal. He has no beginning nor an end.

Thus, since God created everything, there was a point at which there existed nothing but God. But, in order for love to be perfect, it must be shared. Since God cannot change, he must have always been a person. So, when nothing existed except God, with whom did God share his love? With whom did God relate to as person? The answer is: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit shared their love with each other, and existed in relation to each as persons.

Of course, the more you think about that, the more confused you’re likely to become.

😃

– Mark L. Chance.
 
mlchance said:
One spirit. They are all one in Being.

No one can grasp it. The Trinity is a mystery of faith. We accept its truth because it is found in Scripture and because the Church, which is protected by the Holy Spirit, teaches that it is true.

Still, it is important to realize that all we cannot fully grasp the Trinity, the concept itself is not contradictory or unreasonable. In fact, something like a Trinity seems logically necessary.

Consider: God is perfect. Among other things, this means God doesn’t change. God is also love. This means God’s love must be perfect. God is also personal, meaning he exists in personal relationship to others. Finally, God is eternal. He has no beginning nor an end.

Thus, since God created everything, there was a point at which there existed nothing but God. But, in order for love to be perfect, it must be shared. Since God cannot change, he must have always been a person. So, when nothing existed except God, with whom did God share his love? With whom did God relate to as person? The answer is: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit shared their love with each other, and existed in relation to each as persons.

Of course, the more you think about that, the more confused you’re likely to become.

😃

– Mark L. Chance.
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thank you, I’ll contemplate, think, read and pray then I’ll be back…
 
meaprilrain said:
thank you, I’ll contemplate, think, read and pray then I’ll be back…
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👍

Also, don’t forget to add “be humble” to that list of activities. Christians are often accused of having to check our brains at the church door, but that’s not true. Rather, we check our egos.

😃

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I’ve come to learn the more complex words and models one uses, the more confused the questioner becomes, so here is one of the best and simplest ways I’ve heard the Trinity explained, a metaphor of a Candle, or more specifically the light of a candle. It possess three distinct natures, its heat, its light, and the shape of the flame itself. Three things, completely different, but all in one. The heat of the candle is like the Holy Spirit, it’s what radiates out and you can feel. The Light is like Christ, the thing we get to see and guides us, and the form of the flame is like God the Father. In the shapes comes both the light and the heat. All three natures in one. Hope that helps to simplify.
 
I had trouble with this concept myself, a long time back when I was learning the Catholic Faith. I was given a text picture that helped me understand the concept very well. I wish I remembered the person’s username on here, so they could get credit.

Say you pick a 3 leaf clover. The clover represents the Trinity. There are 3 leaves but part of the same clover. When you tear a leaf off to test the theory that they were not united to each other, what do you get? Just a leaf. Its no longer a clover.

God never -needs- to do anything. He does it because He loves us. He wanted us to have Himself, Himself in human form for a time, and a Comforter within us known as the Holy Spirit. God has been a Trinity even before the Creation, He works outside of time; He knows everything and His plans and ways are not ours. He reveals truths to us in the time He chooses, and He is incapable of deception. That’s important to know, because not everybody can grasp a concept. This is why the Trinity is known as a mystery. Its difficult or cannot be, grasped.

Still, I try to help out by spreading this pretty text picture in the hope that understanding might happen.
 
meaprilrain said:
I am not a catholic, by your definition I am not even a christian. All though I believe in Jesus Christ the son of God as my Savior, I do not believe that God my father in heaven, his son Jesus Christ and the holy ghost are one spiritual being. They are 3 seperate and distinct individuals. Could you please explain why you claim otherwise when so many scriptures show them as being seperate and even being seen together as seperate beings?
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Hello Meaprilrain,

You have gotten lots of good responses … and as many have said the Trinity is a profound mystery which we contemplate as our relationship to our Creator [God] grows and deepens …

So I will build upon that sense of relationship … you mention being three separate distinct individuals … and I would say I find it vastly different … The three Persons are really understood in the Greek sense of “personas” … like the three faces of God …

I think of it this way … I am one unique individual but all incompassed in me … the unigue human that is YADA … are these many personas …

I am first a child to my parents … and as such a grandchild …etc

The forth child in my family - I am a sibling

I am a friend.

I am a spouse

I am a parent, and grandparent … add in here all of the familial relationships you can think of cousin … etc

I am an employer [and have been an employee]

All of these and still I am ONE …

One of the Greatest Mysteries of the TRINITY … IMHO … is the perfection of Relationship in the THREE IN ONE of the MOST HOLY TRINITY …

I beleive the focus of the Trinity revealed to us is relational … the Rlationship of the Creator to His created and our relationship with our Creator [God] … all of scripture leads us to this truth …

Read the Scriptures: We are the Bride, the Heir, the Child of God … We are His Hosen People, He is our King … all of this is relationship … We turn away and He calls us back … We sin, God Forgives …all relationship …

And the Perfection of relationship if the Trinity …

The Trinity is not ‘like’ a family … our families are like the Trinity … what is perfected in that Triune God - we struggle with and attempt to follow …

Just my musings … God Bless You …
 
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