Catholics regard Muhammad as a prophet??

[mojave19]

To Mr. Planten

I think you need to give us a good web site where we can find a copy of the Quran in English that is accurate. I have seen several web sites in the past that conflicted with each other. It would be good if the web site is searchable. That is it has a place where you can type in a word or phrase and the web site itself locates what you want to know within the Quaran.

If we are to discuss Muhammad and Islam intelligently it would be good to have an accurate text which we can all access easily.

Yes, and in the allegations of Mohammed’s misdeeds, please cite authoritative sources, not random rantings by Protestant (or Catholic) fundamentalists.
I recall reading a website by such people that claimed “Allah” was some pagan god the Moslems pray to. Throughout much of my life I have attended the liturgies of the Melkite and Maronite churches (Eastern Catholic rites) and can attest that Christian Arabs also pray to “Allah”–this is simply the Arabic word for “God,” and is no more pagan that the German “Gott” or the French “Dieu.”

 

[sedonaman]

…Mohammed was not Christian and was therefore not bound by Christian morals as we are.

I think he is bound by the Golden Rule, Natural Law, or whatever you want to call it.

I simply don’t understand why we are not only dismissing the truth about the crimes committed by Columbus and the conquistadors who followed him, but we are also still honoring him by hanging portraits of him in church halls and retaining his name in the most popular lay Catholic men’s association.

Because the alleged crimes by Columbus have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. [Not even the crimes committed by Mohammed are on topic.] You can go on feeling guilty about what you think he did, but I don’t, and I refuse to assume the responsibility for whatever sins he might have committed. Besides, you have invoked a logical fallacy here; what Columbus did or didn’t do does not excuse Mohammed. “B” cannot get away with bank robbery by claiming that “A” did it too.

P.S. I have a copy of his log of the first voyage, and I don’t remember any of the stuff you claim about him, so I question the validity of your source. Enough about an unrelated topic.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by Reformed Rob
…So I’m a little confused…

I’ve never been taught that I should regard Muhammad as a prophet, and I’ve been a Catholic for a year. What else do I need to know?

** Reformed Rob, You have been a catholic for about one year only. You need to read a few impartial books on the subject. Please read the following books:

1. Bible, Science and Quran by Dr. Maurice Bucaille.
2. The 100 greatest men of the world.
3. Jesus in Heavens on earth.

These books should be available on the net. Search for them.
a. The Bible, The Qur’an and Science

b. the book 100 Greatest Men (Grolier Educational: Danbury, Connecticut; 1997), written by Michael Pollard

c. ‘Jesus in Heaven on Earth’ by Khwaja Nazir Ahmad **

It may help you to understand more bout Muhammad.

 

[Daniel49]

Mojave -

So, I take it that Columbus did nothing of merit in his lifetime in your highly educated opinion. Is that the deal? It is clear that you hate the guy, but at least throw him some tiny bone for some sort of lifetime achievement. Was he an idiot? Did he have no vision? Was he a miserable leader of men? Or is there nothing in his life at all to consider as meritorious? Maybe he was the devil incarnate (sort of like mo was?)?

Or - - -

Is it slightly possible that he was a very crafty explorer who made mistakes precisely like all mortal men do?

Daniel49

 

[Aydan]

Mojave -

So, I take it that Columbus did nothing of merit in his lifetime in your highly educated opinion. Is that the deal? It is clear that you hate the guy, but at least throw him some tiny bone for some sort of lifetime achievement. Was he an idiot? Did he have no vision? Was he a miserable leader of men? Or is there nothing in his life at all to consider as meritorious? Maybe he was the devil incarnate (sort of like mo was?)?

Or - - -

Is it slightly possible that he was a very crafty explorer who made mistakes precisely like all mortal men do?

Daniel49

can I ask a favor? If you all want to discuss Christopher Columbus can you start a new thread? I want to stay focused on Mohammed and I really have no desire to discuss Christopher Columbus because it is not related to whether or not Catholics should regard Mohammed as a prophet.

 

[Aydan]

Christians - Does the Christian faith regard Muhammad as a prophet?

I’ve never been taught that I should regard Muhammad as a prophet, and I’ve been a Catholic for a year. What else do I need to know?

Rob I come from a family of Protestants and ardent fundamentalists everyone in my family Protestants and Catholics alike are adamant that as Christians we cannot regard Mohammed as a prophet because he denies the divinity of Jesus.

 

[sedonaman]

Rob I come from a family of Protestants and ardent fundamentalists everyone in my family Protestants and Catholics alike are adamant that as Christians we cannot regard Mohammed as a prophet because he denies the divinity of Jesus.

Here newadvent.org/cathen/10424a.htm is a write-up that might help.

 

[sedonaman]

Muslims - Does the Islamic faith regard Jesus as the Messiah?

What do Muslims mean by the term “Messiah”?

Christians - Does the Christian faith regard Muhammad as a prophet?

I’ve never been taught that I should regard Muhammad as a prophet, and I’ve been a Catholic for a year. What else do I need to know?

Here is what my Catholic Dictionary says about Mohammedanism [Islam]:

Mohammedanism. The religion first preached by Mohammed ibn Abdallah 570-632 A.D.) in Mecca, Arabia. Islam (Arabic, submission), as it is more properly called, is an amalgam of Jewish, Christian, and primitive Arabian religious beliefs. Its creed is expressed by the formula “There is no God but Allah (Arabic, the god), and Mohammed is His prophet.” Christ and the Old Testament saints are revered, but as lesser prophets. Its doctrines are contained chiefly in the Koran, supposedly revealed by God to Mohammed, and in the Sunna, collections of Mohammed’s sayings, anecdotes, legends, etc.

Besides basic beliefs in the unity of God and the inspired mission of Mohammed, Islamic doctrines include belief in angels, demons, and predestination to heaven or hell. Worship consists of prescribed prayers and ablutions five times daily at the call of the muezzin. On Fridays the noon prayers are said in the mosque, forming part of a service conducted by the priestly imam. The head of a tribe or of the Moslem peoples is also called imam, and is recognized as a spiritual leader. Alms are prescribed, a strict fast is imposed in the month of Ramadan, and certain foods and drinks are forbidden. If possible, a Moslem must make at least one pilgrimage to Mecca; sometime during his life he must make a pure act of faith. Militant missionaries themselves, Moslems have proved more resistant to Christian conversion than any other cult.

There are several Mohammedan sects with opposing views on ritual and theology (notably the Persian and Indian Shiites and the “orthodox” Sunnites), but these are considered divisions within Islam, the unity of which is believed to be guaranteed by the principle of Ijma, the prophet’s declaration that his community would never be in agreement on error.

Islam was a great threat to all of Christendom for many centuries. It aspired to become a world power and a universal religion. Within a century of its beginning it had conquered much of the Near East, Egypt, North Africa, and the South of Spain. Stopped from further advance in the West by Charles Martel at Tours in 732, it spread eastward in the meantime, overcoming Persia, a large part of India, and much of the Byzantine Empire. Everywhere in its territories, Christians were persecuted and enslaved. Its threat to Western Christianity and civilization was not finally overcome until 1683.

Islam is one of the largest non-Christian cults, comprising about 1,300,000,000 believers, called Muslims or Moslems, mainly in Africa, Arabia, Asia, and India.

In addition, you might check out what the on-line Catholic Encyclopedia says about
Mohammed and Mohammedanism .

After you read these, you will understand why you were never taught to regard Mohammed as a prophet.

 

[GraceDK]

Muhammad is a false prophet.
His words and deeds are in direct opposition to everything the true God has revealed about Himself through Judean-Christian Scripture and Tradition both before and after the man Muhammad ever lived.
Islam is a tragedy costing many, many Christians to be severely persecuted and killed all over the Muslim world every day plus many millions of Muslims suffering from the chains, darkness and supression from this sinister religion.

Catholicism and Islam are not of the same spirit.
Its that simple.

 

[GraceDK]

Yes, and in the allegations of Mohammed’s misdeeds, please cite authoritative sources, not random rantings by Protestant (or Catholic) fundamentalists.
I recall reading a website by such people that claimed “Allah” was some pagan god the Moslems pray to. Throughout much of my life I have attended the liturgies of the Melkite and Maronite churches (Eastern Catholic rites) and can attest that Christian Arabs also pray to “Allah”–this is simply the Arabic word for “God,” and is no more pagan that the German “Gott” or the French “Dieu.”

www.islam-watch.org
Will sum up some pretty nasty authoritative Hadith and Koran verses showing that Muhammad was a rapist etc… this page was made by former Muslims and has a lot of resources.

 

[mojave19]

I think he is bound by the Golden Rule, Natural Law, or whatever you want to call it.
Because the alleged crimes by Columbus have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. [Not even the crimes committed by Mohammed are on topic.] You can go on feeling guilty about what you think he did, but I don’t, and I refuse to assume the responsibility for whatever sins he might have committed. Besides, you have invoked a logical fallacy here; what Columbus did or didn’t do does not excuse Mohammed. “B” cannot get away with bank robbery by claiming that “A” did it too.

P.S. I have a copy of his log of the first voyage, and I don’t remember any of the stuff you claim about him, so I question the validity of your source. Enough about an unrelated topic.

It is your logic that is very skewed:

1. My point is to remove the plank from our own eye before we try to pull the speck from our brother’s. I am applying this to the condemnation of Mohammed’s misdeeds while overlooking our own. He wasn’t Christian, we are, and so we need to challenge a very common view of Columbus that is naive, ignorant and highly hurtful to the descendants of the people he and his cohorts abused.
2. That’s an unfounded jump to say I feel guilty about this. I feel no personal guilt about the crimes against the Native Americans, but it is an act of mercy to instruct the ignorant.
3. Catholics do harm today regarding the past sins against the Indians by perpetuating a glorified myth of Christopher Columbus. The Knights of Columbus do this and as does that parish I mentioned that has a prominent portrait of Columbus in its reception hall. (Just as I, as a descendent of Irish Catholics who were persecuted by British penal laws against Catholics, find the heroic statue of “Lord Protector” Oliver Cromwell behind Westminster Abbey very cruel and offensive. It’s like a Hitler statue at the Brandenburg Gate.) BTW, in many ways, Cromwell was the Brit version of Columbus bringing Protestant civilization to the paganish Celtic papists.
4. Yes, in regard to Columbus’ first voyage his account to the Queen was glowing–beautiful, friendly natives in a tropical paradise, et al. This was to butter her for commissions for further explorations and exploitations and it worked–for a while. She then became suspicious of his greed, cruel management practices, and accounts of him courting the Portuguese. His second and later voyages were not so glowing. Upon his third voyage he was arrested and led back to Spain in chains. As the Counting Crows song goes, “In 1492 Columbus sailed the ocean blue…in 1495 he barely made it out alive…”
   Go to the contemporary accounts of Spanish atrocities described by Bishop De las Casas. Also major encyclopedias and Columbus’ letters themselves. Columbus was the first transatlantic slave merchant, but because Indians died en masse in captivity, it opened wide the doors to African slave trade. As the natives got wise to his motives and rebelled, he had attack dogs kill them. Other Indians were chopped up to feed the dogs. He lured soldiers back home by writing about beautiful Native girls of nine and ten years old.
   And we have his portrait hanging in Catholic halls and KofC marching in festive Columbus Day parades!
   It’s a sin of pride to not redress this.

 

[sedonaman]

…
And we have his portrait hanging in Catholic halls and KofC marching in festive Columbus Day parades!
It’s a sin of pride to not redress this.

I think you should find another church … no, make that another religion.

 

[dzheremi]

Can you guys please move the Columbus discussion to some other thread? Everytime I get a notification of a new post in this thread I come here expecting to see talk about Muhammad and the view of him within Catholicism. Columbus is wholly irrelevant to that.

 

[Aydan]

Can you guys please move the Columbus discussion to some other thread? Everytime I get a notification of a new post in this thread I come here expecting to see talk about Muhammad and the view of him within Catholicism. Columbus is wholly irrelevant to that.

EXACTLY I asked them to do that in an earlier thread as well I couldn’t agree with you more!

 

[hawkeye]

Here are a few cute little quotes from the koran:

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh
with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey’s end. -
9:73

O believers,** take not Jews and Christians as friends**; they are friends
of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them.
God does not guide an unjust people. - 5:54
Proclaim a woeful punishment to the
unbelievers. - 9:2-3
Allah will humble the unbelievers. Allah and His apostle are free from
obligations to idol-worshipers.
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find
them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for
them. - 9:5

Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of
Allah, with your wealth and your persons. - 9:41

Muhammad is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the
unbelievers but merciful to one another. Through them, Allah seeks to
enrage the unbelievers. - 48:29

Daniel49

The above sounds like the uttering of the possessed during Exorcism, like evil is forcing it out of their mouths.

Angel Gabriel appeared to Mo-hammed ? I don’t think so, it came from the pit of darkness, and satan as it’s author.