Catholics removed a commandment?

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JonathonofOhio said:
I was chatting with a friend of mine online who is a born again Christian, and he asked me if I knew that Catholics removed one of the ten commandments. I said, “But then wouldn’t there be only 9? I was taught there were 10.” He then said what he meant was that they changed it so that they didn’t have to address idolatry.

So I quickly called up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sent him the link to it. It has a side-by-side comparison of the commandments in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. A third column shows Traditional Catechetical Formula. I said, “I don’t see anything removed.” Needless to say, he had no response to that, but it did leave me with a question…

Where did the idea come from that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments? I’ve heard a lot of strange accusations in my life, but this one is new to me. Anyone have any information about this or heard of it before?
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Well the thought comes from a different distribution:

Catholic, Lutheran:
  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  3. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  4. Honor your father and your mother.
  5. You shall not murder.
  6. You shall not commit adultery.
  7. You shall not steal.
  8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  9. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife.
  10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Protestant (except Lutheran), Orthodox:
  1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
  2. You shall not make for yourself an idol.
  3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  5. Honor your father and your mother.
  6. You shall not murder.
  7. You shall not commit adultery.
  8. You shall not steal.
  9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
  10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.
Both of these lists of 10 commandments that I just spelled out in here are taken from Exodus 20:2-17. Both have 10 commandments. The Catholic version however includes the commandment about idols into the first commandment and therefore it is not easily seen in the list (and looks like an omission) and it distinguishes between the neighbors property and his wife.
The Protestant version does distinguish between having other gods and making idols and includes all coveting in the last commandment.

2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.
3 You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me,
6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not leave him unpunished who takes His name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you.
11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.
12 Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.
13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.

PS: The Jewish Talmudic Division ends the first commandment after v. 2 and splits up v. 17 into two commandments.
The Jewish Philonic Division is similar to the Protestant (non-Lutheran) and Orthodox division.
 
I think people love to find fault with Catholics any way they can. People hate what they think the church teaches but I think they would love what the church “really” teaches. They don’t take the time to do the research.
 
JonathonofOhio said:
I was chatting with a friend of mine online who is a born again Christian, and he asked me if I knew that Catholics removed one of the ten commandments. I said, “But then wouldn’t there be only 9? I was taught there were 10.” He then said what he meant was that they changed it so that they didn’t have to address idolatry.

So I quickly called up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sent him the link to it. It has a side-by-side comparison of the commandments in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. A third column shows Traditional Catechetical Formula. I said, “I don’t see anything removed.” Needless to say, he had no response to that, but it did leave me with a question…

Where did the idea come from that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments? I’ve heard a lot of strange accusations in my life, but this one is new to me. Anyone have any information about this or heard of it before?
Click to expand...
Good work! 👍

There are two listings of the commandments in the OT. Some Protestant sects use the list and Catholics the other. The main difference is that the Church raises the level of “wife” or woman to that of a person by separating her from the list of property items.

Many protestants complain that Catholics 'changed" the first commandment because we list idolatry separately, and because they think we are trying to justify the use of images and statues.

One must also remember that there were no chapters or verses in the Bible at all until the CC added them. 😃
 
Janet1983 said:
Both of these lists of 10 commandments that I just spelled out in here are taken from Exodus 20:2-17. Both have 10 commandments. The Catholic version however includes the commandment about idols into the first commandment and therefore it is not easily seen in the list (and looks like an omission) and it distinguishes between the neighbors property and his wife.
The Protestant version does distinguish between having other gods and making idols and includes all coveting in the last commandment.
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Janet, for some reason, the Catholic version does suit me fine. I am not saying that just because I am a Catholic but because I would not be able to put ‘wife’ under the category of property. It was most probably during Moses’ time but Jesus clarified thing a bit - a wife is placed no more under property status. 😉
 
Reuben_J said:
Janet, for some reason, the Catholic version does suit me fine. I am not saying that just because I am a Catholic but because I would not be able to put ‘wife’ under the category of property. It was most probably during Moses’ time but Jesus clarified thing a bit - a wife is placed no more under property status. 😉
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I was not trying to declare any version better than the other. I was just trying to shed light on the problem.
I don’t see myself as my husband’s property, just because I use a different count. I see the last commandment as a commandment against coveting in general.
 
Janet1983 said:
I was not trying to declare any version better than the other. I was just trying to shed light on the problem.
I don’t see myself as my husband’s property, just because I use a different count. I see the last commandment as a commandment against coveting in general.
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Yes, I see what you mean.

As for usage (the ten Commandment), coveting in general can be put into one Commandment. Perhaps this is the reason why Protestants thought it’s expedient to do so.

The separation of the 9th and 10th Commandment into ‘wife’ and ‘goods’ would make more sense if we see coveting of wife is more than just greed but a glimpse into a whole new institution of marriage – that wife is not merely ‘good’ but a new definition of partnership in marriage as designed by God.

Likewise, putting a commandment against worshipping of graven image is already covered in the 1st Commandment as there is only one God to be worship.

Anyway the Ten Commandments are merely the numbering. The commandments of God are more than just the Ten Commandments. If we want to delve more into the do’s and the don’ts of God, they are all there in the Bible and in the Church (especially for Catholics). Surely we don’t lack in the Commandments; it’s the living them out in our lives and following them that pose more of a problem.
 
JonathonofOhio said:
I was chatting with a friend of mine online who is a born again Christian, and he asked me if I knew that Catholics removed one of the ten commandments. I said, “But then wouldn’t there be only 9? I was taught there were 10.” He then said what he meant was that they changed it so that they didn’t have to address idolatry.

So I quickly called up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sent him the link to it. It has a side-by-side comparison of the commandments in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. A third column shows Traditional Catechetical Formula. I said, “I don’t see anything removed.” Needless to say, he had no response to that, but it did leave me with a question…

Where did the idea come from that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments? I’ve heard a lot of strange accusations in my life, but this one is new to me. Anyone have any information about this or heard of it before?
Click to expand...
I have come across a few Protestants who believe this. All I can surmise is that either, or both, Jack Chick and Lloraine Boetner may have started this rumor. Both are known to be very anti-Catholic and have started and spread a lot of anti-Catholic rumors and lies.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Mikeoffaith said:
Hi Maria-

As a Lutheran of the ELCA, I think of myself as an evangelical, in the sense that I emphasize the good news of salvation received apart from human works as opposed to being what most people think of as an Evangelical when they really mean fundamentalist. I think at the heart we are all evangelical in the sense that we all try to live with in the norms of the Gospel.

Mike
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Very true, Mike! I should have said fundamentalist:blush:
 
JonNC said:
Hi MariaG,
You don’t have to wait. Some don’t. 😛
check out jesus-is-savior.com and type Lutheran in the site search. :rolleyes:
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Wow! Well at least they are being more consistent than those who basically ignore the practices of Sacramental Christians in favor of bashing the “Whore of Babylon”.

I don’t know if I should tell you how sorry I am, since coming from a fundmentalist branch of Christianity, I feel tremendous sorrow at that kind of attitude or give you a high five for being so much like the Catholic Church that Lutherans are no longer counted as Christians by such as those and their man made interpretations divorced from Sacred Tradition.
 
Javl said:
I have come across a few Protestants who believe this. All I can surmise is that either, or both, Jack Chick and Lloraine Boetner may have started this rumor. Both are known to be very anti-Catholic and have started and spread a lot of anti-Catholic rumors and lies.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
Click to expand...
I believe it goes back farther than that, to Alexander Hislop, in the 19th Century. He wrote a book that I seem to remember hearing was called “The Two Babylons”. Boetner, Chick, & Co. seem to have based their worse ravings on his :rolleyes:“work”.
 
Everyone is aware, I assume, that the Sacred Scriptures contained no numbering whatsoever originally. Besides the ten commandments, there is different numbering of verses throughout the Bible even within accepted translations within the Catholic Church. It is for the sake of convenience and has nothing to do with substance
 
MariaG said:
Wow! Well at least they are being more consistent than those who basically ignore the practices of Sacramental Christians in favor of bashing the “Whore of Babylon”.

I don’t know if I should tell you how sorry I am, since coming from a fundmentalist branch of Christianity, I feel tremendous sorrow at that kind of attitude or give you a high five for being so much like the Catholic Church that Lutherans are no longer counted as Christians by such as those and their man made interpretations divorced from Sacred Tradition.
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I understand your sorrow. I share it when I think of the ugly words that have past between our two traditions over the last nearly 500 years. I pray for the intervention of the Holy Spirit to bring us closer together, that we learn better to see His grace in each other.

Jon
 
JonNC said:
I understand your sorrow. I share it when I think of the ugly words that have past between our two traditions over the last nearly 500 years. I pray for the intervention of the Holy Spirit to bring us closer together, that we learn better to see His grace in each other.

Jon
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Absolutely. I think for the most part, Catholics and Lutherans respect the basic Christianity of each other, unlike the link to the one site. And we are even making headway on statements that talk about what we can say we agree on:thumbsup:

God Bless,
Maria
 
JonathonofOhio said:
I was chatting with a friend of mine online who is a born again Christian, and he asked me if I knew that Catholics removed one of the ten commandments. I said, “But then wouldn’t there be only 9? I was taught there were 10.” He then said what he meant was that they changed it so that they didn’t have to address idolatry.

So I quickly called up the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sent him the link to it. It has a side-by-side comparison of the commandments in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. A third column shows Traditional Catechetical Formula. I said, “I don’t see anything removed.” Needless to say, he had no response to that, but it did leave me with a question…

Where did the idea come from that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments? I’ve heard a lot of strange accusations in my life, but this one is new to me. Anyone have any information about this or heard of it before?
Click to expand...
I think one of the problems is that Exodus lists 12 commandments, so any list of 10 would appear to remove two.
 
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