Catholics saved by Grace alone?

[De_Maria]

***“Amen!” says the Catholic. We are saved by God’s grace and by God’s grace alone!

*I’m sorry, but that is what Protestant’s teach. The Church teaches:
**
1847 “God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us.” To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Although it is true that our faith and works do not merit justification, **we will not be justified without faith and works. ** Lets read more of Trent:
CHAPTER VI
 THE MANNER OF PREPARATION
**Now, they [the adults] are disposed to that justice when, aroused and aided by divine grace, receiving faith by hearing,[21] they are moved freely toward God, believing to be true what has been divinely revealed and promised, especially that the sinner is justified by God by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;[22] and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves from the fear of divine justice, by which they are salutarily aroused, to consider the mercy of God, are raised to hope, trusting that God will be propitious to them for Christ’s sake; *and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice, and on that account are moved against sin by a certain hatred and detestation, that is,*by that repentance that must be performed before baptism;[23] finally, when they resolve to receive baptism, to begin a new life and to keep the commandments of God.

Of this disposition it is written:
He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him;[24] and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee;[25] and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin;[26] and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost;[27] and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you;[28] finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.[29]**

Therefore Scripture says:
Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Therefore, in order to be sanctified in Baptism one must begin to be justified by preparing for that sanctification by cooperating with the actual grace of God and turning to Him.
CHAPTER V
THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ,

And this is done by faith and good works. Faith because:
Hebrews 11:6 
But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.

And works because:
James 2:18 
But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.

Therefore, the Catholic Church does not teach that we are saved by grace alone.

**CHAPTER V
THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS
**It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight.
Hence, when it is said in the sacred writings:
Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you,[19] we are reminded of our liberty; and when we reply:
Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted,[20] we confess that we need the grace of God.
Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[diggerdomer]

***“Amen!” says the Catholic. We are saved by God’s grace and by God’s grace alone!

*I’m sorry, but that is what Protestant’s teach. The Church teaches:
**
1847 “God created us without us: but he did not will to save us without us.” To receive his mercy, we must admit our faults. “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Although it is true that our faith and works do not merit justification, **we will not be justified without faith and works. ** Lets read more of Trent:
CHAPTER VI
 THE MANNER OF PREPARATION
**Now, they [the adults] are disposed to that justice when, aroused and aided by divine grace, receiving faith by hearing,[21] they are moved freely toward God, believing to be true what has been divinely revealed and promised, especially that the sinner is justified by God by his grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus;[22] and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves from the fear of divine justice, by which they are salutarily aroused, to consider the mercy of God, are raised to hope, trusting that God will be propitious to them for Christ’s sake; *and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice, and on that account are moved against sin by a certain hatred and detestation, that is,***by that repentance that must be performed before baptism;[23] finally, when they resolve to receive baptism, to begin a new life and to keep the commandments of God.

Of this disposition it is written:
He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him;[24] and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee;[25] and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin;[26] and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost;[27] and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you;[28] finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.[29]

Therefore Scripture says:
Romans 2:13
For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Therefore, in order to be sanctified in Baptism one must begin to be justified by preparing for that sanctification by cooperating with the actual grace of God and turning to Him.
CHAPTER V
THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ,

And this is done by faith and good works. Faith because:
Hebrews 11:6 
But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.

And works because:
James 2:18 
But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.

Therefore, the Catholic Church does not teach that we are saved by grace alone.

CHAPTER V
THE NECESSITY OF PREPARATION FOR JUSTIFICATION IN ADULTS, AND WHENCE IT PROCEEDS
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, from His vocation, whereby, without any merits on their part, they are called; that they who by sin had been cut off from God, may be disposed through His quickening and helping grace to convert themselves to their own justification by freely assenting to and cooperating with that grace; so that, while God touches the heart of man through the illumination of the Holy Ghost, man himself neither does absolutely nothing while receiving that inspiration, since he can also reject it, nor yet is he able by his own free will and without the grace of God to move himself to justice in His sight.
Hence, when it is said in the sacred writings:
Turn ye to me, and I will turn to you,[19] we are reminded of our liberty; and when we reply:
Convert us, O Lord, to thee, and we shall be converted,[20] we confess that we need the grace of God.
Sincerely,

De Maria

Ok, so your question, or your topic for conversation is…?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Actually, the Church does teach Sola Gratia. Without Grace, there is no salvation. We cannot be saved apart from Grace. So it is not incorrect to say that we are saved by Grace alone. There is *nothing else *that can save us.

The Church also teaches *Sola Christo *- we are saved by Christ alone. Without Jesus Christ, there is no saving Grace.

It is therefore possible for infants to be saved, even though they have neither Faith nor works.

Beyond the age of reason, we participate in the economy of salvation (which is really the economy of Grace), which includes both Faith and works, which is where the early protestants took a wrong turn. But neither faith nor works could save us without Grace, so they got that one right.

 

[diggerdomer]

Actually, the Church does teach Sola Gratia.

Reference? Catechism, or other authoritative Magisterial teaching? thanks.

 

[DavidFilmer]

Reference? Catechism, or other authoritative Magisterial teaching? thanks.

Sure. Of course, the term “sola gratia” is of protestant origin, and is not used by the Church, but the Church clearly teaches this underlying doctrine:

[W]e are therefore said to be justified gratuitously [ie, by Grace], because none of those things that precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace of justification.

Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 4​

Our justification comes from the grace of God.

CCC 1996​

​

​

​

 

[diggerdomer]

Sure. Of course, the term “sola gratia” is of protestant origin, and is not used by the Church, but the Church clearly teaches this underlying doctrine:

​

​

That’s not the same as teaching grace “alone” which is what your post said, right?

 

[DavidFilmer]

That’s not the same as teaching grace “alone” which is what your post said, right?

We are justified by Grace, and by nothing else. The Church does not use the phrase “Grace ‘alone’” but says we are justified by Grace, and nothing else (or “none of those things,” as Trent said). Trent taught that neither Faith nor works could justify us apart from Grace.

It is true that the word “alone” does not appear, but I fail to see how any other interpretation could be imparted to this doctrine.

Perhaps you would care to present an alternate understanding? What can save us, apart from Grace? Can we be saved *without *Grace?

 

[diggerdomer]

The Church does not use the phrase “Grace ‘alone’”

Thanks. That’s what I thought.

 

[July_James]

The Apostle Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”.

Paul goes so far in Galatians 1:8,9 to CURSE anybody that preaches any other gospel but HIS GOSPEL.

Jesus came to those under the law, in the Old Covenant, and preached accordingly in the 4 Gospels.
But after His resurrection, He made a new and living way for us, and He assigned the Apostle Paul to bring this message to us, the non-Jews.

Peter was commissioned to the Jews. Paul to the non-Jews. We are not Jews!

It was not on Peter that the church is built. It is on the revelation that Peter had of Christ. He said to Jesus, YOU are the Christ! And Jesus replied that on this revelation, He will built His Church.

It was the revelation of Christ in us, the hope of glory, that Paul brought to the churches through his visits and his letters.

It is this revelation still, on which God wants to build His Church.

And His Church, is not an organization, it is a living body, with living members, of which every believer forms a part.

And yes, there are members who has a Catholic flavour. But there are also members who are Protestant.
But the issue is not which denomination you attend.
The issue is, do you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation and on Him alone! Do you believe in the power of His blood, that was shed for your sins?
Then you can be saved. As simple as that.
And this salvation, or receiving the seed of His Word into your heart and believing it, will bring about in you a tree of righteousness, that will produce the fruit of the Spirit, as Christ is being formed in you,

That doesn’t mean if you received salvation by faith that you are a disciple yet. A disciple has to follow Jesus and pay the price.

To be saved and to be a disciple is not the same thing.

Salvation is a free gift, but to follow Jesus will cost you everything, and the two things are not to be confused.

 

[thistle]

GRACE

CCC 1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.

CCC 1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an “adopted son” he can henceforth call God “Father,” in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.

CCC 1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God’s gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.

CCC 1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification:

Therefore if any one is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has passed away, behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself.

CCC 2000 Sanctifying grace is an habitual gift, a stable and supernatural disposition that perfects the soul itself to enable it to live with God, to act by his love. Habitual grace, the permanent disposition to live and act in keeping with God’s call, is distinguished from actual graces which refer to God’s interventions, whether at the beginning of conversion or in the course of the work of sanctification.

CCC 2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, “since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:”

Indeed we also work, but we are only collaborating with God who works, for his mercy has gone before us. It has gone before us so that we may be healed, and follows us so that once healed, we may be given life; it goes before us so that we may be called, and follows us so that we may be glorified; it goes before us so that we may live devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live with God: for without him we can do nothing.

CCC 2002 God’s free initiative demands man’s free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of “eternal life” respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:

If at the end of your very good works . . ., you rested on the seventh day, it was to foretell by the voice of your book that at the end of our works, which are indeed “very good” since you have given them to us, we shall also rest in you on the sabbath of eternal life.

CCC 2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.

CCC 2004 Among the special graces ought to be mentioned the graces of state that accompany the exercise of the responsibilities of the Christian life and of the ministries within the Church:

Having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, in proportion to our faith; if service, in our serving; he who teaches, in his teaching; he who exhorts, in his exhortation; he who contributes, in liberality; he who gives aid, with zeal; he who does acts of mercy, with cheerfulness.

CCC 2005 Since it belongs to the supernatural order, grace escapes our experience and cannot be known except by faith. We cannot therefore rely on our feelings or our works to conclude that we are justified and saved. However, according to the Lord’s words “Thus you will know them by their fruits” - reflection on God’s blessings in our life and in the lives of the saints offers us a guarantee that grace is at work in us and spurs us on to an ever greater faith and an attitude of trustful poverty.

A pleasing illustration of this attitude is found in the reply of St. Joan of Arc to a question posed as a trap by her ecclesiastical judges: “Asked if she knew that she was in God’s grace, she replied: ‘If I am not, may it please God to put me in it; if I am, may it please God to keep me there.’”

 

[jonnyws]

Grace is a Gift.

A gift denotes something that requires a response - in this case the response is either to reject grace and refuse to participate in it or to accept grace and to participate in it. The fact that we have the choice between accepting the grace won for us on the cross or rejecting it highlights the fact that we participate in it. We are not saved by grace along because a response on our part is necessary for it to be accepted.

That response is not simply a passive response to be caught up into the Resurrection of Christ but an active response in which we re-orientate our being to God, worship him and walk in his ways. This is achieved by a cooperation between the grace given by the creator and the dutiful response of the creature. Grace is participatory in nature and therefore we are saved by grace, not not grace alone. We see this throughout the writings of Saint Paul where we are implored to ‘be guided by the Spirit’ [Galatians 5:25] and to ‘put on the armour of light’ [Romans 13:12]. Paul constantly implores the churches to clothe themselves in Christ and to turn away from sin. Now these people are part of the Body of Christ and stand in grace but it is their participation in grace that Paul, in his role as pastor, is primarily concerned with.

A Gospel of salvation through faith alone and by grace alone is devoid of all love for it strips away all human freedom as the gift becomes something we are forced to accept and we are stripped of any need to lovingly participate in God and become nothing but playthings.

 

[clmowry]

Yes the Church does teach we are Save by Grace and Saved by Christ
but I don’t believe the Church teaches we are saved by “Sola” anything.

Chuck

Actually, the Church does teach Sola Gratia. Without Grace, there is no salvation. We cannot be saved apart from Grace. So it is not incorrect to say that we are saved by Grace alone. There is *nothing else *that can save us.

The Church also teaches *Sola Christo *- we are saved by Christ alone. Without Jesus Christ, there is no saving Grace.

It is therefore possible for infants to be saved, even though they have neither Faith nor works.

Beyond the age of reason, we participate in the economy of salvation (which is really the economy of Grace), which includes both Faith and works, which is where the early protestants took a wrong turn. But neither faith nor works could save us without Grace, so they got that one right.

 

[De_Maria]

Ok, so your question, or your topic for conversation is…?

That we are not saved by grace alone. I thought that was obvious.

 

[De_Maria]

Actually, the Church does teach Sola Gratia. Without Grace, there is no salvation. We cannot be saved apart from Grace. So it is not incorrect to say that we are saved by Grace alone. There is *nothing else *that can save us.

Show me where the Church says we are saved by Grace Alone.

The Church also teaches *Sola Christo *- we are saved by Christ alone. Without Jesus Christ, there is no saving Grace.

The correct terminology is Solus Christus and it is a Protestant heresy used to deny the truth of the Communion of Saints; and the Papacy and Priesthood.

It is therefore possible for infants to be saved, even though they have neither Faith nor works.

Children are a special case which is not addressed by the Council of Trent.

Beyond the age of reason, we participate in the economy of salvation (which is really the economy of Grace), which includes both Faith and works, which is where the early protestants took a wrong turn. But neither faith nor works could save us without Grace, so they got that one right.

But not by Grace Alone.

God created us by grace alone, but He does not save us by Grace Alone. The theology of Creation is different than the theology of Salvation. We are discussing the theology of Salvation. God expects us to exercise our will and participate in our salvation. Therefore, you need to provide Catholic Teaching which supersedes Trent in order to prove your personal opinion is correct.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

We are justified by Grace, and by nothing else.

We are justified by grace through faith and our works.

The Church does not use the phrase “Grace ‘alone’”

For a very good reason.

but says we are justified by Grace,

That is correct.

and nothing else (or “none of those things,” as Trent said).

You have misunderstood Trent. Although Trent says that none of those things which come before justification MERIT justification. That is not the same as saying that the things which come before justification do not JUSTIFY.

Scripture is very clear that works of faith JUSTIFY the sinner.
James 2:24
**Ye see then how that by works a man is ****justified, and not by faith only.
**
And the Church will not contradict Scripture.

Trent taught that neither Faith nor works could justify us apart from Grace.

And that is correct. Nothing can be done apart from Grace.

It is true that the word “alone” does not appear, but I fail to see how any other interpretation could be imparted to this doctrine.

Just because you fail to see it doesn’t mean you are permitted to change the Catholic doctrine.

Perhaps you would care to present an alternate understanding? What can save us, apart from Grace? Can we be saved *without *Grace?

No alternate understanding is necessary. We can’t be saved apart from Grace. Nor can we be saved without Grace. But that is not the same as saying that we are saved by Grace alone. The Church does not teach “grace alone”. That is a Protestant teaching.

 

[De_Maria]

The Apostle Paul teaches in Ephesians 2:8
“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”.

Catholic Teaching.

Paul goes so far in Galatians 1:8,9 to CURSE anybody that preaches any other gospel but HIS GOSPEL.

Galatians 1:8
**But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other **gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Jesus came to those under the law, in the Old Covenant, and preached accordingly in the 4 Gospels.
But after His resurrection, He made a new and living way for us, and He assigned the Apostle Paul to bring this message to us, the non-Jews.

First He assigned St. Peter:
Acts 15:7
And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that **the Gentiles by my **mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

Peter was commissioned to the Jews. Paul to the non-Jews. We are not Jews!

St. Peter was commissioned to all:
John 21:17
**He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my **sheep.

It was not on Peter that the church is built. It is on the revelation that Peter had of Christ. He said to Jesus, YOU are the Christ! And Jesus replied that on this revelation, He will built His Church.

It was on St. Peter. That is why Jesus called him Peter. Because He assigned to Simon His own name. Thus revealing that Simon would become the Pastor of His Church.

It was the revelation of Christ in us, the hope of glory, that Paul brought to the churches through his visits and his letters.

As did the rest of the Apostles.

It is this revelation still, on which God wants to build His Church.

God already built His Church. And St. Paul remains a very big part of it.

And His Church, is not an organization, it is a living body, with living members, of which every believer forms a part.

It is an organization. And it is a living Body with living members. Even if we should die, we will live in the Body of Christ.

And yes, there are members who has a Catholic flavour. But there are also members who are Protestant.

All the Baptized are united to the Catholic Church in a mysterious way.

But the issue is not which denomination you attend.

It is not the only issue, but it is a very important one.

cont’d

 

[De_Maria]

cont’d

The issue is, do you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for Salvation and on Him alone! Do you believe in the power of His blood, that was shed for your sins?
Then you can be saved. As simple as that.

No. Because Jesus tells us to believe the Church:
Matthew 18:17
**And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the ****church: but if he neglect to **hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Scripture tells us that believing him is not enough if we don’t add works to our faith:
2 Peter 1:5
And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your ****faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;…**10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: **

And Scripture says that we can save ourselves and others:
1 Timothy 4:16
**Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both ****save **thyself, and them that hear thee.

and that faith comes by hearing:
Romans 10:14
**How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they ****believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a **preacher?

Obviously then, they must first believe the preacher and then the message of Christ. Therefore Christ is right when He says:
Matthew 10:40
**40He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me. **

Therefore, we must believe in each other and follow Christ together. It is not by Christ alone.
John 17:20
**Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall **believe on me through their word;

And this salvation, or receiving the seed of His Word into your heart and believing it, will bring about in you a tree of righteousness, that will produce the fruit of the Spirit, as Christ is being formed in you,

But that is Catholic Teaching.

That doesn’t mean if you received salvation by faith that you are a disciple yet. A disciple has to follow Jesus and pay the price.

Still Catholic Teaching.

To be saved and to be a disciple is not the same thing.

All the Baptized are saved in the sense that they are set aside for holy purposes. But Catechumens, those who are seeking permission to be Baptized and become members of the Body of Christ are not yet set aside for a holy purpose, not yet saved.

Salvation is a free gift, but to follow Jesus will cost you everything, and the two things are not to be confused.

Amen! You have discovered the meaning behind, we are saved by works and not by faith only.
Romans 2:13
**(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be **justified.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[DavidFilmer]

We are justified by grace through faith and our works.

It is impossible for any person to be saved without grace. However, it is possible to be saved without faith and works.

Faith and works are how we participate in the economy of salvation, but at the end of our life, when we breathe our last breath, it is grace (alone) that saves us. That is why the Church uses the term, “state of Grace.” If we die in a state of Grace, we are saved. If we are not in a state of Grace, we are condemned.

We place ourselves in (our out of) a state of Grace by our participation in the economy of salvation (which includes faith and works), but when we die, at that moment (which is the most significant moment we will ever experience), it is Grace alone which saves us. Because, in Catholic thinking, salvation is not assured - you can only be truly saved if you are in a state of Grace at the moment of death. Ultimately, the moment of death is what determines your salvation.

Faith and works (and Grace) help justify (and sanctify) us, but it is Grace alone that saves us at that moment when we draw our last breath.

 

[July_James]

Dear De Maria

Thank you for your detailed feedback.
I can see that you are very passionate about your faith.

I would like to share with me a more holistic view on the topic and would appreciate your feedback.

A differentiation is made between Lucifarian illuminism and Godly illuminism. Both Lucifer and Jesus are referred to in scripture to be compared to morning star. Jesus Christ’s illuminism will however always lead us to be rooted in (abiding in) the tree of life which is Himself. In Him we (the believer) lives and move and have our being, as per St. Paul. Jesus did after all introduce Himself not only as the Way, and the Truth, but also as the Life. It is through faith alone in the finished work of redemption brought about for us on the cross by Jesus Christ, that a believer can transfer from a life under the law of sin and death (in the tree of knowledge of good and evil) to a life in Him, where there is no law anymore, apart from the law of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Gurus and many spiritual people may have managed to put themselves through many purification process, to move up to the very top of tree of knowledge of good and evil, but still there is no true LIFE to be found there. Where New Agers believes that redemption to the world will be accomplished by everybody moving higher up in the tree of knowledge to greater levels of purification and love, the bible teaches that redemption is only possible through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ.

In the movie “Eat love pray”, the emphasis was not on the Tree of Life, but on the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. Anything spiritual would not necessarily lead to life. Apart from Jesus Christ, any spiritual experience could only lead to death and destruction. For the thief came to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus came that we can have life and have it abundantly.

So now if we explore, not like the “wise of this world”, as 1 Cor 1:18-30 warns again, but as little Children as Jesus encourages us to come,
Romans 4:2-6 becomes increasingly clear:

"For if Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about, but not beforeGod.
For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God and IT was accounted to him for righteousness.

NOW TO HIM WHO WORKS, the wages are NOT counted as grace but as debt.

BUT to HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK BUT BELIEVES on Him who justifies the UNGODLY, his FAITH is accounted for righteousness,

Just as David also described the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes RIGHTEOUSNESS APART FROM WORKS"

Those who are still trying to earn points with God, righteousness, through their good works, are still living from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Even if you give away all you have to the poor but have not that love that comes from Christ, it means nothing.
And not abiding in Him, one may have a humanism type of love, but never the God kind, that pleases the Father.
The type of love that pleases the Father, as illustrated in 1 Cor 13, can not come as a work, it can only come as a fruit. Therefore the glory will be the Father’s where such fruit abounds.
For the Father is only pleased with Christ, and those to whom the righhteousness of Christ has been accredited, simply because they are IN HIM.

 

[July_James]

Dear De Maria

I also wanted to add, that the explanation you gave as to the respective roles of St. Peter and St. Paul in the building of the Church, is not scriptural. Especially if you study Galatians 2:7-20.

Be careful that you don’t teach people things, that had simply been taught (passed on) to you, when you have no personal revelation from Scripture for that teaching. God takes that very serious.

Another thing to point out is that Jesus said that HE would built His Church, and the gates of hell would not prevail against it. He did not assign any person to built His Church.

You should not find your identity in a spesific denomination and their teachings. You need to find your identity in Christ and in Him alone. To seek Truth is to leave everything familiar behind, and to follow Jesus, and surely when you do that you will be persecuted, ESPECIALLY by the religious croud.

It was not in the end the prostitutes and tax collectors that cruficied and hated Jesus. It was the religious people of the day, who had it all “figured out” they believed, and Jesus simply didn’t fit into their “box”.

It is still like that today.

To know Him, one needs to follow Him, and love Truth, more than any group of people, to love Him, even more than life itself.
And that may often cause you to lose a lot of popularity.
But a follower is no different from His Master.

God loves you and He is calling you, to abandon all, and to follow Him.
To abandon even all your constructs and concepts of who He is. And to allow Him, to reveal Himself to you, in Spirit and in Truth.
He has had His eye on you, since your birth.
And He has called you to bring shaking to nations.
But you need to lose your life first. In order to find it.

As for our access to the Throne of God, read Hebrews, especially 10:19. Jesus is our Priest. We need no mediater. Especially not Mary.
Kindly and Truthfully