Catholics Still Leaving in Droves?

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Heb. 12:29 - God is a consuming fire (of love in heaven, of purgation in purgatory, or of suffering and damnation in hell).

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Cor. 3:15 – “if any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.” The phrase for “suffer loss” in the Greek is “zemiothesetai.” The root word is “zemioo” which also refers to punishment. The construction “zemiothesetai” is used in Ex. 21:22 and Prov. 19:19 which refers to punishment (from the Hebrew “anash” meaning “punish” or “penalty”). Hence, this verse proves that there is an expiation of temporal punishment after our death, but the person is still saved. This cannot mean heaven (there is no punishment in heaven) and this cannot mean hell (the possibility of expiation no longer exists and the person is not saved).

1 Cor. 3:15 – further, Paul writes “he himself will be saved, “but only” (or “yet so”) as through fire.” “He will be saved” in the Greek is “sothesetai” (which means eternal salvation). The phrase “but only” (or “yet so”) in the Greek is “houtos” which means “in the same manner.” This means that man is both eternally rewarded and eternally saved in the same manner by fire.

1 Cor. 3:13 - when Paul writes about God revealing the quality of each man’s work by fire and purifying him, this purification relates to his sins (not just his good works). Protestants, in attempting to disprove the reality of purgatory, argue that Paul was only writing about rewarding good works, and not punishing sins (because punishing and purifying a man from sins would be admitting that there is a purgatory).

1 Cor. 3:17 - but this verse proves that the purgation after death deals with punishing sin. That is, destroying God’s temple is a bad work, which is a mortal sin, which leads to death. 1 Cor. 3:14,15,17 - purgatory thus reveals the state of righteousness (v.14), state of venial sin (v.15) and the state of mortal sin (v.17), all of which are judged after death.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter refers to this purgatorial fire to test the fruits of our faith.

Jude 1:23 - the people who are saved are being snatched out of the fire. People are already saved if they are in heaven, and there is no possibility of salvation if they are in hell. These people are being led to heaven from purgatory.

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).
 
By the way Oliver,

You have put this thread off its topic again.

When the thread is the question if Catholics are leaving in droves, not purgatorgy. I have given you Scriptural Reference.

If you want to discuss purgatory make another thread.
 
PURGATORY is ROOTED in Egyptian paganism. How CAN YOU say my refuting of purgatory is rooted in Egypt??? Did you READ what you wrote before you posted it.??
Cite your source to include the author. No it is not. The word purgatory was not use because it was not challenge.

2 Macc. 12:43-45. the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

Citation of from 2 Macc 12:43-45

Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.

((continue))

Manny you are not quoting Scripture. I cannot take you serious.
 
Cite your source to include the author. No it is not. The word purgatory was not use because it was not challenge.

2 Macc. 12:43-45. the prayers for the dead help free them from sin and help them to the reward of heaven. Those in heaven have no sin, and those in hell can no longer be freed from sin. They are in purgatory. Luther was particularly troubled with these verses because he rejected the age-old teaching of purgatory. As a result, he removed Maccabees from the canon of the Bible.

Citation of from 2 Macc 12:43-45

Turning to supplication, they prayed that the sinful deed might be fully blotted out. The noble Judas warned the soldiers to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen.

((continue))
Manny you are not quoting Scripture. I cannot take you serious.
2 Macc is in the Catholic Bible. It is not in the Protestant Bible since it was remove by Protestants in 1517. It’s been since Bible Times. I also quote other Scripture Reference after that post which apparently you overlooked.
 
Oliver, please make another thread on this doctrine not on this thread.
 
If we have not adequately dealt with satan and sin in this life, we will be held in a temporary state called a prison, and we won’t get out until we have satisfied our entire debt to God. This “prison” is purgatory where we will not get out until the last penny is paid.\QUOTE]

Absolutely UNSCRIPTURAL manny. “held in a temporary state”? That is borrowed from the Egyptians. STUDY what they taught and you’ll see where you get your ideas from…
 
Do you consider yourself an educated man? Why do post a thread on Purgatory on this thread, which deals mainly with the question “Catholics Still Leaving in Droves?”

If you are educated, you would be smart and create a new thread discussing this issue.

Oliver, you are way OUT OF TOPIC!!!
You are not that stupid to know better.
 
Well, M Oliver, the kind of vicious bile you spew is one of the reason why conversions to Catholicism in my BIBLE BELT part of the country far outweigh the conversions to your kind of thinking.

Your hatred will destroy your soul, and you should pray to be delivered from it.
You have not a clue as to what you are talking about.
 
Do you consider yourself an educated man? Why do post a thread on Purgatory on this thread, which deals mainly with the question “Catholics Still Leaving in Droves?”

If you are educated, you would be smart and create a new thread discussing this issue.

Oliver, you are way OUT OF TOPIC!!!
You are not that stupid to know better.
And who got us here manny? Go back and look.
 
And who got us here manny? Go back and look.
dude, your first post, #26, had NOTHING to do with the topic of the thread. so you’re the one who got us off topic. 'kay?

but you know, whatever. carry on.
 
You know it is amazing. I’m reading posts of members who profess to belong to the TWO most prominent “churches” on the planet and not a single person quotes a single Scripture to try and expalin why they both are bleeding like a stuck pig.

May I take this opportunity to SUM it up. First God CALLS His creation. These many called tend to flock towards RITUAL based “churches” …catholic and protestant.

Second. God starts to drag{draw}the called closer to Christ. When this happens they tend to head for the bible based evangelical style because they are tired of the same old CARNAL MINDED RITUALS week after week and desire to know more about the Word.

Third. God shows them that even though they are more into the Word they are **STILL being lied to and fleeced of their money **in the form of the FALSE TEACHING that tithing 10% of your income is Scripturally based.

Fourth. **God allows **them to see and understand such profound Scripture’s as…

Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues; (Revelation 18:4)

Who is “her”. Do you get it? “Her” is ALL of your “churches”. Once this happens God, yes GOD {not some stupid mortal man who claims to be the successor of Christ} opens your mind to the Scriptures and you BEGIN to see things you NEVER in a million years would have believed.

From here on out you battle the beast. And I mean day after day after day after day. It gets really old but God allows you to understand that it is necessary to one day join His family.

It is the best thing that could ever happen to any of us.
Well it most certainly did. It was the attacks afterward that took the post off topic.
 
Well it most certainly did. It was the attacks afterward that took the post off topic.
Post # 26 was an attack on Catholicism by claiming it is the beast. You are the only one I know who has openly attack the Catholic Church.

In fact, your attack is Anti-Catholicism which is itself is bias. For once I like to see you write more charitable posts like the other Non-Catholic Christians instead of attacking our faith.
 
Well it most certainly did. It was the attacks afterward that took the post off topic.
no, it was you posting your completely off-topic nonsense in the first place.

by your logic, you could yell “fire” in a crowded theater, and blame the subsequent riot on the people who reacted to your deliberate provocation, rather than accepting the blame for provoking them.
 
no, it was you posting your completely off-topic nonsense in the first place.

by your logic, you could yell “fire” in a crowded theater, and blame the subsequent riot on the people who reacted to your deliberate provocation, rather than accepting the blame for provoking them.
For a 40 yrs old, he sure doesn’t act like it.
 
I think M. Oliver is a disciple of L. Ray Smith. He has a web site that sounds just like Oliver does using sarcasm etc. in his opinions. Tell us M. Oliver is this where yuo are getting your info???
 
Well … I don’t know about falling away in droves, but our RCIA program starts tomorrow and we have 37 people who will be attending. I’d say Jesus is calling us all Home.

in Christ
Steph
 
I’m glad that so many are joining RCIA elsewhere. The group I’m in only has maybe 6-8 people in it. Then again the church here also is guilty of several liturgical abuses and does things in order to appease the worldliness of the college students rather then to obey God. The RCIA director herself has told me that Eucharistic Adoration is “pointless” and shouldn’t evenb be done anymore. God has let me know I am to stay in the RCIA program, though I’m not yet sure why, but me and my boyfriend are fairly certain we’re going to attend weekly mass elsewhere.

As long as their teachings of the basics are alright then I’ll stay…I crave to join the Church along with the many others out there.

Sorry, I went off topic a bit with my ranting.
 
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