Catholics studying the Bible

[Teflon93]

As rich in Scripture as the liturgy is, not everyone (most Catholics, in fact) are lucky enough to have a homilist that can draw out a meaningful application in 20 distraction filled minutes or less. Many Catholics are hungry to go into God’s word on a much deeper and systematic level. The reality is that if you don’t provide them with quality, orthodox, Catholic Bible studies, they’ll go to Protestant ones.

They can start their own. I’m a bit mystified by the allure of Protestant Bible studies to Catholics.

There is nothing magical about forming a Bible study group—put a message in your parish bulleting asking people to contact you if interested, set a date, and make some coffee.

I don’t know why Catholics feel as though this must be somehow sanctioned or that it would be better if not sanctioned to go into the belly of the beast of disobedience as it were.

Ignatius Study Bibles are excellent and quite orthodox. They run $10 a piece.

 

[Golf_Nut]

They can start their own. I’m a bit mystified by the allure of Protestant Bible studies to Catholics.

There is nothing magical about forming a Bible study group—put a message in your parish bulleting asking people to contact you if interested, set a date, and make some coffee.

I don’t know why Catholics feel as though this must be somehow sanctioned or that it would be better if not sanctioned to go into the belly of the beast of disobedience as it were.

Ignatius Study Bibles are excellent and quite orthodox. They run $10 a piece.

Teflon, as you know the Bible is not easy to understand. Its organization, chronology, the fact that it is translated from various languages (ie. Greek, Armaic, Hebrew) can all lead to erroneous interpretation. A useful Bible study group requires a learned teacher. Otherwise, it is very unlikely that the insights that you and I develop with a pot of coffee are going to be accurate (unless we spend several years studying the text, reading commentaries, learning the Armaic, Greek, etc).

Priests have a great number of tasks already and are often doing several Masses each Sunday at various different Church locations. But, they are the ones that come to mind as best qualified to carry out this instruction.

When someone challenges me about the apparent contradiction betweent he NT statement that Jesus is descended from the House of David and mystery of immaculate conception, I dont know how to respond. I do not know the Vatican response, and I should know because then I could defend the faith and through that defence have a deeper understanding that buttresses my faith even more.

Again Catholicism does many things well, but in my humble opinion religious education for parishoners has been poor.

At the very least, I think Priests should spend a bit of time in each Mass explaining what it is they do and why if there is no religious education to fulfil this role. how else can parishoners be expected to understand and learn.

 

[Teflon93]

The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is a great guide. We went through several of these in our Bible study last year; we didn’t have much trouble working through it.

And if you need someone learned as a guide, why would you ever attend a Protestant Bible study?

Is there some value in the certainty of heading the wrong way?

I certainly think too many Catholics prefer to be spoonfed than doing the real work of reading and attempting to understand the Church.

That said, you could always start your own group to do this. At our parish, it’s the Evangelization and Ecumenism Commission.

 

[Golf_Nut]

The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is a great guide. We went through several of these in our Bible study last year; we didn’t have much trouble working through it.

And if you need someone learned as a guide, why would you ever attend a Protestant Bible study?

Is there some value in the certainty of heading the wrong way?

I never ever said i would attend a Protestant Bible study. I simply pointed out that the practice of Bible study by protestants, Jews (Old Testament study only), is a step in the right direction that the Church should be doing also.

The Church does many many great things, but I am not dogmatic in that belief. To raise the issues of poor religious education is not a challenge of the validity of Catholic theology, just a challenge to communicate that theology more clearly. That is what is needed, otherwise, parish will shrink and shrink. Do you want to grow the flock through catholic education or mystify parishoners?

best wishes

 

[Teflon93]

I never ever said i would attend a Protestant Bible study. I simply pointed out that the practice of Bible study by protestants, Jews (Old Testament study only), is a step in the right direction that the Church should be doing also.

I never said you said it. There are others in the thread who have noted that some attend Protestant Bible studies for lack of Catholic ones.

The Church does many many great things, but I am not dogmatic in that belief. To raise the issues of poor religious education is not a challenge of the validity of Catholic theology, just a challenge to communicate that theology more clearly. That is what is needed, otherwise, parish will shrink and shrink. Do you want to grow the flock through catholic education or mystify parishoners?

best wishes

What mystifies me is the amount of money, time, and effort the Church spends on such things apparently to no effect. Our parish has its own Catholic school where one hopes kids are learning the faith. We have our RCIA program and started our Evangelization and Ecumenism Commission, which includes among other things a speaker’s series where various experts come in and share their reflections on key tenets of the faith (most recent one was on Advent, with our retired bishop as lecturer). Even with such resources available, attendance is quite poor—6-8 people. If there’s all this hunger out there to know more about the Church, I’m not seeing it yet in my parish.

But we all have an obligation to do this work. As a convert, I did much of it on my own. It frankly never occurred to me to demand that someone teach me anything.

I did attend RCIA, which was helpful, but the key learning was done in attending Mass, being active in my parish, participating in CAF, and reading a shelf-ful of books, starting of course with the Catechism.

I will confess to not understanding those Catholics who bemoan the lack of education in the faith on one hand but don’t avail themselves of the considerable resources at their disposal. It is far easier to learn about the Church today than it was even a century ago. It is a tragedy that so many choose not to do so, but given our experience within my parish I’m not sure that a proliferation of programs will result in addressing this. We’ll see. I wouldn’t be involved in our parish’s efforts in this regard if I thought it didn’t stand a chance to do just that.

 

[Golf_Nut]

The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is a great guide. We went through several of these in our Bible study last year; we didn’t have much trouble working through it.

And if you need someone learned as a guide, why would you ever attend a Protestant Bible study?

Teflon, where the dialogue has been between you and I in the last few exchanges and your use of the personal pronoun “you” I presumed you were directing your comment to me. My mistake.

You have converted to Catholicism which tells me you took the time to learn, but the average Catholic (myself included) is born into the religion with poor religious education. I attended cathecism and the instruction was poor. Anybody at my church can volunteer and teach cathecism without much understanding of the faith. This is a mistake, if they have little understanding, how can they impart that to their students? I submit that they cannot.

I think the Church has an obligation to do a better job of religious education. Thats part of their mission or it should be.

Anyway, I know that my postings will not change this sad state of affairs at all.

I just posted these comments to see if there were others that agreed. Evidently that is not the case. It would appear that I am the one that struggles to understand. I will say this much, I have attended mass for many years, in various churches, and heard many homilies, but never an explanation of the structure of a mass, the wine, the bread, etc.

Anyway, I guess I am alone in these thoughts.

I have to leave. thanks for the discussion. Most interesting. Not what I expected.

best wishes

 

[Teflon93]

I think the issue may be that most Catholics on CAF have an above-normal understanding of the faith simply by being immersed in the threads here.

I’m still hoping for the groundswell of Catholics who want to learn more about the faith in my parish—it’s embarassing to hold lecture events where half the attendees are on the organizing committee.

I wouldn’t argue that catechesis isn’t lacking, but I wonder if lack of interest isn’t the root of that trouble.

 

[rwoehmke]

I will confess to not understanding those Catholics who bemoan the lack of education in the faith on one hand but don’t avail themselves of the considerable resources at their disposal. It is far easier to learn about the Church today than it was even a century ago. It is a tragedy that so many choose not to do so, but given our experience within my parish I’m not sure that a proliferation of programs will result in addressing this.

If you guys ever find an answer please let us know. We have had five of the Jeff Cavin’s studies in ouir parish over the past three years. Out of probably close to 5000 parish members, which includes the kids, the max we ever had for a single study was maybe forty or fifty. We had three groups for the Bible Time Line which met at different times with about 15 individuals in each group. Little Rock Studies in the home might, depending on the topic, reach 100 people scattered among 8 or 9 homes…

We had a Deacon from the St. Paul Diocese teach the CCC over a one year period. That drew between fifty and eighty people. It met once a week with some exceptions.

The thing that is notable about the Cavin’s studies is that it is mostly women, the majority being the older ones, and a very few men. The younger women, say under forty-five, are not in abundance and no younger men at all…

On the other hand RCIA which has had widely ranging attendance. Depending on the year with one to twenty participants, drew people of all ages.

 

[clmowry]

I think the issue may be that most Catholics on CAF have an above-normal understanding of the faith simply by being immersed in the threads here.

I’m still hoping for the groundswell of Catholics who want to learn more about the faith in my parish—it’s embarassing to hold lecture events where half the attendees are on the organizing committee.

I wouldn’t argue that catechesis isn’t lacking, but I wonder if lack of interest isn’t the root of that trouble.

I am not so sure Catholic Bible study is as much “unavailable” as it is poorly attended.

At my parish, for example, there is Bible study available for teens and several different adult bible studies have been offered this year.

Typical attendance at the various adult groups is generally fewer than a dozen or so people, in a parish of 1,100 families.

Many times when someone attempts to lead a study despite announcements in the bulletin and from the pulpit participants either never materialize at all or soon evaporate. A Lady’s Bible Study and an Early Morning Men’s study group of about a dozen or so people each seem to be the only long term survivors.

The teen bible study attracts anywhere from 30-70 teens a week.

The primary issue for the teen study, at least in my sons opinion, is that it tends to evolve into a touchy-feely meeting rather than a bible study. That is there seems to be much less time spent with the teens discussing what the readings that week teach us about God and His plan for salvation and much more time spent around how the readings make the teens “feel”.

I believe we are way to quick to blame the Church for apathy among the laity.

At least that’s the way I see it.

Chuck

 

[Teflon93]

If you guys ever find an answer please let us know. We have had five of the Jeff Cavin’s studies in ouir parish over the past three years. Out of probably close to 5000 parish members, which includes the kids, the max we ever had for a single study was maybe forty or fifty. We had three groups for the Bible Time Line which met at different times with about 15 individuals in each group. Little Rock Studies in the home might, depending on the topic, reach 100 people scattered among 8 or 9 homes…

We had a Deacon from the St. Paul Diocese teach the CCC over a one year period. That drew between fifty and eighty people. It met once a week with some exceptions.

The thing that is notable about the Cavin’s studies is that it is mostly women, the majority being the older ones, and a very few men. The younger women, say under forty-five, are not in abundance and no younger men at all…

On the other hand RCIA which has had widely ranging attendance. Depending on the year with one to twenty participants, drew people of all ages.

Our RCIA has been all over the place as well, max of 25 min of 6.

I’d love to have 50 people for our events. The Bible study group I was in had 4 people—think there were two groups of 4.

Depressing for sure if we dwell on it. I’m hoping better communication will get numbers up.

 

[Teflon93]

I believe we are way to quick to blame the Church for apathy among the laity.

At least that’s the way I see it.

Chuck

I’m with you there.

What an opportunity we missed with the Pauline Year and the discussions about the Bible the Synod had!

 

[Strategery]

They can start their own. I’m a bit mystified by the allure of Protestant Bible studies to Catholics.

There is nothing magical about forming a Bible study group—put a message in your parish bulleting asking people to contact you if interested, set a date, and make some coffee.

I don’t know why Catholics feel as though this must be somehow sanctioned or that it would be better if not sanctioned to go into the belly of the beast of disobedience as it were.

Respectfully, I think you’re being too harsh.

The fact that there is an allure means there’s a lot of spiritual hunger out there. I know, I was one of the hungry. My church had one bible study available, at 10 am on a weekday. Protestant studies are available pretty much anytime, anywhere, if you look around for them.

I participated in non-denominational groups for a couple of years, and I learned a lot. I personally learn better from discussion than from reading study texts, so it was very helpful to have others around me who could navigate their way around the Bible.

It’s OK to want a study but not be confident enough to lead one yourself. IMO if one isn’t available, it’s a failing at the parish level, not the parishoner level. If someone says “teach me”, the Parish should respond. I strongly believe that parishes should have multiple bible studies at convenient times throughout the week. I’ve personally started two men’s studies in my parish and my goal is to have as many as we need.

 

[Teflon93]

It’s OK to want a study but not be confident enough to lead one yourself. IMO if one isn’t available, it’s a failing at the parish level, not the parishoner level. If someone says “teach me”, the Parish should respond. I strongly believe that parishes should have multiple bible studies at convenient times throughout the week. I’ve personally started two men’s studies in my parish and my goal is to have as many as we need.

This is true. Of course, one can also study the Bible with one’s family, or on one’s own. Introverts may shy from study groups.

Perhaps the recent synod will result in more parishes seeking a top-down approach to Bible studies. Bible study is a good thing; I just tire frankly of people professing Protestant envy on the one hand but not simultaneously recognizing that this is the result of the Protestant work ethic in these areas.

Bible studies don’t magically appear—someone starts them and sufficient quantities of people support them for the duration. It takes effort and one hopes that people would simply roll up their sleeves and either start their own where none currently exists or support those Catholic Bible studies which do exist.

Of course, this applies to all areas of the Church. Many complain about the music, for example, but don’t seem to either improve their own singing or playing so as to help nor really to encourage others to do so.

Thus, I complain about the poor adult catechesis in our parish, but helped found our Evangelization and Ecumenism Commission to do something about it.

If there are large numbers of people in our parish with a hunger to learn more about their faith and broadcast it to the world, well, we simply haven’t found them. Yet.

 

[Strategery]

This is true. Of course, one can also study the Bible with one’s family, or on one’s own. Introverts may shy from study groups.

Bible studies don’t magically appear—someone starts them and sufficient quantities of people support them for the duration. It takes effort and one hopes that people would simply roll up their sleeves and either start their own where none currently exists or support those Catholic Bible studies which do exist.

Definitely. I personally underestimated the preparation time I put in particularly for the second study. My first one had people who are spiritually fairly far along, so it makes things easier. For the second, have to plan hard to meet the individuals at their own level.

IMO that’s discipleship in a nutshell - commitment on an individual level. That takes a lot of work. I personally don’t think I could run a third study.

Of course, this applies to all areas of the Church. Many complain about the music, for example, but don’t seem to either improve their own singing or playing so as to help nor really to encourage others to do so.

Thus, I complain about the poor adult catechesis in our parish, but helped found our Evangelization and Ecumenism Commission to do something about it.

If there are large numbers of people in our parish with a hunger to learn more about their faith and broadcast it to the world, well, we simply haven’t found them. Yet.

This subject is heavy on my mind right now. I was just elected to a 3-yr stint on parish council. At our parish the council’s only job is setting the spiritual vision for the parish. Other committees handle financial stuff, manage the school, and other administrative stuff.

To me, it all boils down to two things:

1. We need to be skilled at identifying and/or attracting people with spiritual needs. In reality this is everyone, but for this discussion we need an army of people who’s job is identifying people who need help, or who really crave spiritual guidance.
2. We need to be able to minister to those people, in small groups or one-on-one.

In my case, my calling is in bible study but as you know a lot of things pop out of those discussions. If someone shows up with a problem or clearly needs help, the meeting changes course quickly to help the individual.

Bible study is one “hook” - we need to identify as many as possible and put the support systems in place. We need to develop a community of people committed to help others spiritually on an individual level. All parish ministries/clubs/whatever should be in tune with that vision.

I’ll let you know how the next three years go.

PS - I’m interested in your Evangelization and Ecumenism Commission. Could you share more about it?

 

[Teflon93]

Amen, Matt.

PM me and I’ll give you the particulars on what we’re doing. I won’t candy-coat it—we’re facing many of the same struggles you’ve mentioned, plus battling just to get enough continuity in place so that changes in personnel don’t lead to major failures.

 

[HappyRevert]

Since previous posts were talking about the lack of attendance at Bible studies in their parishes, I wanted to say some good things, and why I think they are successful in hopes other people can find a way to initiate it in their parishes as well.

I joined a Bible study 7 years ago for Mom’s with children that met during the week. We have had to split a couple of times because it gets too unmanageable in size due to growth. We meet at each other’s houses and lack the space to do more than about 15 people. We have discussed moving it to the parish facilities, but there is something about going to a person’s house, having breakfast together, chatting and then studying the Bible that nourishes the body, soul, and emotions. That has been my true Catholic education - not only in the Bible, but how to raise Catholic children, be a Catholic wife, and other nuances of Catholic life that completely eluded me through CCD. I will say that brutal honesty about our shortcomings and humor play a large part in it, and so it is not just the learning of the Bible, but the application of it to our lives that is so important. A friend who doesn’t belong to our group said, “That’s just like the early Christians, meeting at each other’s houses to learn”, and I think that is why it works.

Our Parish also sponsored a spiritual study this past year that was done by Christ Life (not strictly a Bible study but examining our relationship with Christ) and we had to close it to newcomers after a while because we ran out of space (100+ participants). It also included dinner and as far as I could see was a huge success.

I guess after writing this, it looks like a meal needs to be included People are so rushed (particularly with children old enough for activities) that they can’t make it to activities in the evening because of logistics, not necessarily lack of desire (hence why either young people or older people with older children are able to attend). I think anything that will nurture not only the formality of Bible study, but the fellowship of other Catholics on the journey to learn more about our faith and our Lord will succeed in the long run.

I pray all of you will be able to start programs in your parishes that will befriend and care for your fellow Catholics while teaching them about the Bible. Imagine if everyone posting was able to do it - how transforming for our church!