Catholics supporting Illegals

[Bullfighter]

There are racist latinos…where did I claim otherwise? Whenever you extrapolate the rants of a few to a whole race, it is racist. Therefore, the Mexicans you saw on YouTube are equally racist.

Thank you.

You seem to know all about this stuff! Maybe you can answer this. Why do Mexicans hate Puerto Ricans. OK Why do some Mexicans hate some Puerto Ricans. I’ve heard this for years but I haven’t heard an acceptable answer to this phenomenon.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Thank you.

You seem to know all about this stuff! Maybe you can answer this. Why do Mexicans hate Puerto Ricans. OK Why do some Mexicans hate some Puerto Ricans. I’ve heard this for years but I haven’t heard an acceptable answer to this phenomenon.

I don’t know…hadn’t heard that. It may be a localized phenomena. I doubt that Puerto Ricans and Mexicans interact much in their home countries.

 

[RobertLGarrett]

Thank you.

You seem to know all about this stuff! Maybe you can answer this. Why do Mexicans hate Puerto Ricans. OK Why do some Mexicans hate some Puerto Ricans. I’ve heard this for years but I haven’t heard an acceptable answer to this phenomenon.

I don’t know…hadn’t heard that. It may be a localized phenomena. I doubt that Puerto Ricans and Mexicans interact much in their home countries.

BTW…just about every group has racist tendencies toward some other group. It is a darker part of our human nature. Rising above it should be a goal.

 

[siamesecat]

Are immigration laws contrary to religious teaching? Is deportation contrary to religious teaching?

I personally agree that the priests shouldn’t be compelled to turn people in, but I don’t think your point is correct.

If deportation is not against Church teaching then I guess it’s up to the individual whether to support the laws or not. But I still think Christian charity should supercede immigration laws, because I don’t see how manmade laws should be equal to God-given laws.

 

[b_ulmen]

good gravy, people! It seems this thread has been hijacked by superficial intellectuals. The purpose was to discuss the balance between religious and civic duties of the clergy (hoepfully to expand to all Catholics). But that is not to be, those incapable of deeper thinking, as evidenced by thier assumption of racism in discussing illegals, are apparently more interested in meaningless banter than actually discussing the topic at hand. Race has nothing to do with illegal immigration as anyone in a southwestern border town can tell you. Asians are #2 behind hispanics coming here illegally. Take your ignorant race-baiting to another thread, this one is for honest discussion of the conflict between religious and civic duties.
No one that i’ve noticed is advocating NOT feeding the illegals, it is the lack of action afterward where the contention lies. Should the priests, who know without a doubt the folks they are helping are not American citizens, also call the proper authorities after (or during) providing the humanitarian aid we are all called to provide.
Let’s get back on track. This race-baiting and superficial banter is not progressing the conversation.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t know…hadn’t heard that. It may be a localized phenomena. I doubt that Puerto Ricans and Mexicans interact much in their home countries.

BTW…just about every group has racist tendencies toward some other group. It is a darker part of our human nature. Rising above it should be a goal.

I don’t think that Mexican hating Puerto Ricans is a generalized reality. However, there is a political issue that may cause some strain.

Puerto Rica became part of the United States in 1898, long before sone other states. And Puerto Ricans became United States Citizens with one restriction. They can only participate in federal elections while on the mainland, not from Puerto Rico. But they are eligible to be President of the United States, because they are American-born citizens.

The Mexicans who have lived in the western states long before they become part of the United States have often been treated like immigrants by the anglo-speaking Americans around them. In fact, neither the Mexicans in the western states or the Puerto Ricans are immigrants. They are natural born Americans and have always had Spanish as their first language.

Suddenly, there is a public push for English as a national language in States where Spanish was the original language spoken since the 1500s. The same rule is not applied to Puerto Rico or Guam. They have a dual-language requirement; but are not asked to give up Sanish or Chimorro as their first languages.

Hope this helps.

JR

 

[ForMary]

I would like that the priests leave the police work to the police. Please remember that the vast majority of “illegals” are no threat to you or your family. They have names. They have mothers. They are someone’s son or daughter. Show them the mercy that Christ showed us.

In a perfect world, there would be no illegal workers, but until that time, I hope everyone remembers Deuteronomy 10:17-19 (NRSV) *For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who is not partial and takes no bribe, who executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and who loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing. You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. *

Paul

ps. I really hesitated posting to this thread. I predict a firestorm that lasts at least five pages.

Thank you, Paul!

I have not read all of the posts, but need not read further. Please let the light of compassion for human dignity shine for all.

All of us are here because we or an ancestor moved here. To be so arrogant to make laws keeping people out of THIS country (and make no mistake about it, money is a factor of whether you get a visa) is incomprehensible to me.

These people do not put themselves through torturous conditions for kicks and grins but to better their lives. Not for riches, but for minimum wage, for the most part.

I still believe in the words that are inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty,

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

By Emma Lazarus

 

[RobertLGarrett]

good gravy, people! It seems this thread has been hijacked by superficial intellectuals. The purpose was to discuss the balance between religious and civic duties of the clergy (hoepfully to expand to all Catholics). But that is not to be, those incapable of deeper thinking, as evidenced by thier assumption of racism in discussing illegals, are apparently more interested in meaningless banter than actually discussing the topic at hand. Race has nothing to do with illegal immigration as anyone in a southwestern border town can tell you. Asians are #2 behind hispanics coming here illegally. Take your ignorant race-baiting to another thread, this one is for honest discussion of the conflict between religious and civic duties.
No one that i’ve noticed is advocating NOT feeding the illegals, it is the lack of action afterward where the contention lies. Should the priests, who know without a doubt the folks they are helping are not American citizens, also call the proper authorities after (or during) providing the humanitarian aid we are all called to provide.
Let’s get back on track. This race-baiting and superficial banter is not progressing the conversation.

Excuse me b_ulmen, but personally I have never equated the argument regarding illegal immigration with racism. I’ve only called it racism, when individuals have made racist comments.

Illegal immigration should be controlled. Personally, I was in favor of the Kennedy-McCain bill and a strengthening of the borders and border patrol. Since it didn’t pass, our only option now is deportation. Unfortunately, we probably won’t fix the immigration problem with the new administration and congress. I expect them to do some sort of blanket amnesty with no changes to the law. I hope I am wrong.

Now, considering priests. No, they should not have to turn people in.

 

[catharina]

good gravy, people! It seems this thread has been hijacked by superficial intellectuals. The purpose was to discuss the balance between religious and civic duties of the clergy (hoepfully to expand to all Catholics). But that is not to be, those incapable of deeper thinking, as evidenced by thier assumption of racism in discussing illegals, are apparently more interested in meaningless banter than actually discussing the topic at hand. Race has nothing to do with illegal immigration as anyone in a southwestern border town can tell you. Asians are #2 behind hispanics coming here illegally. Take your ignorant race-baiting to another thread, this one is for honest discussion of the conflict between religious and civic duties.
No one that i’ve noticed is advocating NOT feeding the illegals, it is the lack of action afterward where the contention lies. Should the priests, who know without a doubt the folks they are helping are not American citizens, also call the proper authorities after (or during) providing the humanitarian aid we are all called to provide.
Let’s get back on track. This race-baiting and superficial banter is not progressing the conversation.

That the Church expects its pastors and members to help the poor is no surprise. If the Church ordered Catholics to become informers against illegal residents, that would be a rather enormous surprise. Not even the US govt orders its citizens to inform on illegals.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Thank you.

You seem to know all about this stuff! Maybe you can answer this. Why do Mexicans hate Puerto Ricans. OK Why do some Mexicans hate some Puerto Ricans. I’ve heard this for years but I haven’t heard an acceptable answer to this phenomenon.

You will find that this is not limited to Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. We like to dump all central and south american into one lump and call it hispanics, but they are all separate cultures. Peruvians often clash with Puerto Ricans and Mexicans both. Brazillians speaking Portuguese have no use for any of them. Mexicans tend to look down on Puerto Ricans because among other things Mexicans feel they have a better work ethic than the Puerto Ricans. An opinion shared by many social workers by the way.

If you look to the Asians, the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and Vietnamese all “hate” one another. If you ever work with an Asian but you are not sure of the person’s nationality do not assume. The most grievous insult you can give a Korean is to suggest he is Chinese, or suggest a Chinese is Japanese or vice versa. You will have made an enemy for life.

While we are discussing it, African blacks hold American blacks in the worst contempt imaginable because they see themselves as pure while American blacks are mixed blood.

Discrimination and racism is everywhere regardless of a person’s race or ethnicity.

Under Title VII, the bases of discrimination are: sex, age, religion, disability, race, color and ethnicity. Note color, that is included because for example Northern Italians are light skinned and Southern Italians are darker skinned (even though both groups are obviously white) and they will discriminate against each other, Also I’m sure you’ve seen blacks discriminate against each other based on color. When the “fifth race” is the dominate and most previlent most discrimination will be based on color.

 

[Bullfighter]

I can’t say that I totally disagree with them. Do you know why the Alamo was fought? Santa Anna had freed the slaves in Mexico and the Texas land owners didn’t want to lose their “property.” Had the Battle of San Jacinta been won by Mexico, the U.S. would have been a good deal smaller, Texas would have been slave free many years earlier than it was, and George W. would never have been president (at least via Texas governorship). All really good reasons to give it back, IMHO.

Since I live at the Alamo and I celibrate the battle every March 6th by watching the History Channel version of the real story, I totally disagree with that easy answer.

Mexico had wanted the land in Texas occupied to keep the Indians at bay. They offered the land to basically anyone who would settle there. They only wanted the settlers to eventually become loyal Mexicans or as the settlers preferred Texicans.

Everything was going OK but then crazy General Santa Ana took away the Texicans rights in the Mexican congress and wanted much of the land back after the Texicans had fixed the place up. Typical.

Well the Texicans told him where to go. Then Santa Ana sent his armies North and into Texas. The battle was nothing like the John Wayne movie I grew up with. But the sacrifices were real, and some of the greatest letters ever written were from William Barett Travis to “All Americans in the World” as he put it.

“I shall never surrender or retreat! Victory or death!” That is so beautiful as the historians put it, "No one writes like that anymore.

After 13 days of holding of the Mexican Army off, the Alamo fell. But a few men were taken prisoner, one being Davy Crockett. Santa Ana had them executed, and ordered all the bodies of the Alamo defenders to be set on fire. Like I said, Santa Ana was crazy.

The word of what had happened spread and the Texicans couldn’t wait to get their hands on the monster Santa Ana. They got their chance at the Battle of San Jacinto.

The historians bring up some important points. If Texas hadn’t won it’s independance from Mexico, the Mexican War might not have happened the way it did and the United States would have been missing several states.

Texas was the only state to have been first, a country. The Republic of Texas. And for all the fighting that Sam Houston did to get Texas into the Union. It was one of the Southern states that removed itself from that Union.

The Battle of the Alamo was fought to buy time for Texicans to form a government and build an army to fight a crazy dictator.

 

[catharina]

You will find that this is not limited to Mexicans and Puerto Ricans. We like to dump all central and south american into one lump and call it hispanics, but they are all separate cultures. Peruvians often clash with Puerto Ricans and Mexicans both. Brazillians speaking Portuguese have no use for any of them. Mexicans tend to look down on Puerto Ricans because among other things Mexicans feel they have a better work ethic than the Puerto Ricans. An opinion shared by many social workers by the way.

If you look to the Asians, the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and Vietnamese all “hate” one another. If you ever work with an Asian but you are not sure of the person’s nationality do not assume. The most grievous insult you can give a Korean is to suggest he is Chinese, or suggest a Chinese is Japanese or vice versa. You will have made an enemy for life.

While we are discussing it, African blacks hold American blacks in the worst contempt imaginable because they see themselves as pure while American blacks are mixed blood.

Discrimination and racism is everywhere regardless of a person’s race or ethnicity.

Under Title VII, the bases of discrimination are: sex, age, religion, disability, race, color and ethnicity. Note color, that is included because for example Northern Italians are light skinned and Southern Italians are darker skinned (even though both groups are obviously white) and they will discriminate against each other, Also I’m sure you’ve seen blacks discriminate against each other based on color. When the “fifth race” is the dominate and most previlent most discrimination will be based on color.

You seem to be supporting quite a few stereotypes with your post. Any documentation you’d like to share - with your opinion?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

good gravy, people! It seems this thread has been hijacked by superficial intellectuals. The purpose was to discuss the balance between religious and civic duties of the clergy (hoepfully to expand to all Catholics). But that is not to be, those incapable of deeper thinking, as evidenced by thier assumption of racism in discussing illegals, are apparently more interested in meaningless banter than actually discussing the topic at hand. Race has nothing to do with illegal immigration as anyone in a southwestern border town can tell you. Asians are #2 behind hispanics coming here illegally. Take your ignorant race-baiting to another thread, this one is for honest discussion of the conflict between religious and civic duties.
No one that i’ve noticed is advocating NOT feeding the illegals, it is the lack of action afterward where the contention lies. Should the priests, who know without a doubt the folks they are helping are not American citizens, also call the proper authorities after (or during) providing the humanitarian aid we are all called to provide.
Let’s get back on track. This race-baiting and superficial banter is not progressing the conversation.

I think they are answering your question, do you remember

…I am also concerned about having potential carriers fo infectious disease in close proximity to children…

Isn’t that what I should think when I see [white] people hanging around the church when mass is not scheduled?

 

[RobertLGarrett]

The Mexicans who have lived in the western states long before they become part of the United States have often been treated like immigrants by the anglo-speaking Americans around them. In fact, neither the Mexicans in the western states or the Puerto Ricans are immigrants. They are natural born Americans and have always had Spanish as their first language.

What are you talking about JR? I lived in California most of my life (only 8 years total in Colorado, Oregon and Washington - compared with 35 years in CA). People of Mexican descent whose families were here when it became part of the USA speak English. Most of them don’t know any Spanish, unless they learned it in school. A lot of them are white Hispanics, so the only way you would know their heritage is by their name.

If I recall correctly, it is true that the original Constitution of California had both Spanish and English as recognized languages. Still, I think one language unifies the people more effectively…thus the Tower of Babel.

 

[pnewton]

All really good reasons to give it back, IMHO.

Speak for yourself, Chicago. Texas joined the union voluntarily and it is not for any yankees to “give back” what is not theirs to begin with.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Thread closed pending moderator review.