Catholics teaching faith in Christ not needed on CNN

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DD2007

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Exibit A:

youtube.com/watch?v=bfEgYxk0MCw&feature=related

Exibit B:

youtube.com/watch?v=XVfwlzf-DAE&feature=related

Exibit C:

youtube.com/watch?v=iZRcz9jIJUc&feature=related

They contradict this passage directly:

John 3:18 ESV
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Here is what scripture says about preaching a false gospel:

Galatians 1:8 ESV
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
 
Religio71 said:
total depravity. there goes free will.
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Actually no. Original sin in the garden - there goes moral neutrality. The will is free. It is just evil. It is freed from bondage to evil by the Holy Spirits work of regeneration and can then choose to do God glorifying good like trusting Christ for salvation.

Ephesians 2:1-5 ESV
2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Those priests in the video taught a falsehood that contradicts scripture.

John 3:18 ESV
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
 
I will admit that I am no theologian, however from what I have learned on this website is that you cannot give a biblical quote out of its context. I have found that the bible must be read in its entirety. I trust that if you study Catholicism with an open heart you will learn the Catholic Church is not the evil entity people are taught to believe it is.

I have found some articles that will help you.

ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/EXTRAECC.TXT

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

CCC 846-848 look on scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#847

Once again, all learning on this Catholic teaching must be met with an open heart if you are to get anything out of it. I will leave the rest to those posters more qualified than I am.
 
fish90 said:
I will admit that I am no theologian, however from what I have learned on this website is that you cannot give a biblical quote out of its context. I have found that the bible must be read in its entirety. I trust that if you study Catholicism with an open heart you will learn the Catholic Church is not the evil entity people are taught to believe it is.

I have found some articles that will help you.

ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/EXTRAECC.TXT

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512fea3.asp

CCC 846-848 look on scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p3.htm#847

Once again, all learning on this Catholic teaching must be met with an open heart of you are to get anything out of it. I will leave the rest to those posters more qualified than I am.
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That is by far not the only scripture that says faith in Christ is required for salvation the New Testament is littered with them. You can read. You don’t need a priest to read it for you. Obviously they won’t follow it anyway as we have clearly seen then deny that faith in Christ in necessary for salvation on International TV! That kind of thing is the very reason for the reformation. People started reading the bible and found that Rome simply didn’t teach what it said and many times taught against it.

So you have so much faith in your priests you can see them contradict scripture and deny salvation by faith in the Lord on TV and think it is your fault that you don’t read scripture correctly and then you point me to a link to teach me about the RCC???..I’m sorry, but the plain meaning of the text is what it means and they contradicted it and are not teaching the truth.
 
It’s too funny that they still think that priests tell us what to believe, or we can’t discern for ourselves and make our own decisions to believe or not. We don’t blindly follow the teachings of our Church. Many of us have extensively studied Scripture and history, and have come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church maintains the Truth. I don’t care whether you find some monk that is worshipping Vishnu. That is not actual Catholic teaching.

And luckily, Catholics know where to find the actual teachings of the Church.

People have read Scripture more and more, and more are coming to the Catholic Church.
 
DD,

On this issue of “anonymous Christianity” there are many Catholics that do not hold this position. Rahner’s theology is popular with the modernists, and he was one of Ratzinger’s professors, but many feel that Rahner’s theology was too broad. This is definitely one of the pressing issues facing the Church. I have my own fears, and the ambiguous and sometimes heretical implementations post- Vatican II, which were highly reflective of the modernists and Rahner’s theology, is an ongoing debate within the Church.

I think this is what Paul VI and John Paul II were speaking about when they spoke of danger in the Church. Modernism. Protestants have their own version of this with some of the charismatic heresies and the Word of Faith, Health and Wealth gospel. This battle against modernism, or too much modernism (now postmodernism, unfortunately) is one area where I think Catholics and evangelicals should be arguing together.

All my best . . .
 
DD2007 said:
That is by far not the only scripture that says faith in Christ is required for salvation the New Testament is littered with them. You can read. You don’t need a priest to read it for you. Obviously they won’t follow it anyway as we have clearly seen then deny that faith in Christ in necessary for salvation on International TV! That kind of thing is the very reason for the reformation. People started reading the bible and found that Rome simply didn’t teach what it said and many times taught against it.

So you have so much faith in your priests you can see them contradict scripture and deny salvation by faith in the Lord on TV and think it is your fault that you don’t read scripture correctly and then you point me to a link to teach me about the RCC???..I’m sorry, but the plain meaning of the text is what it means and they contradicted it and are not teaching the truth.
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First, I came to you with a loving attitude that respected your position so I only wished you to accept my position. You came to a Catholic Forum and this would lead to responses from Catholics. I also explained that I am no theologian. You have no right to judge me as some blind follower of the Catholic Church. I am on Catholic.com trying to learn more about my faith and am being successful finding the answers I need.

Second, I hope you are aware that Luther added the word “alone” to several pieces of scripture in order to falsely teach heresy. Also, denying the Papacy was something that was unheard of for some 1200 years. After some study, I realized that an infallible book (written by the Catholic Church;)) needs an infallible interpreter. Who is this interpreter? It is the Magisterium of the Catholic Church. The first thing to realize about this teaching authority is that it keeps the Church together. Also, it is the reason why there are not 30,000+ different sects of Catholicism unlike Protestantism. Again here is another reason, Mathew 23 is a perfect example of misinterpreting scripture. It is not a sin to call your father, “father” nor is it a sin to call your preacher “Reverend.” Only with His grace will you realize that the “Fathers” Christ was speaking about were people who take the faith and reinterpret it without humility. Luther, Calivin and Smith are some “Fathers” Jesus could have been talking about. If I remember correctly, the Rabbi’s would lack the humility to know that their teaching comes from God not themselves. Here is a great apologetic article for you to read about this:
catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp. If I remember correctly, there is a literal interpretation of the bible and their is a literalistic interpretation. The Church takes a literal approach to the bible if I remember correctly. That is why the Church sees symbolism in the 144,000 in Revelations. I will admit a wrong if I am wrong on this issue

Thirdly, I asked you to read these articles with an open heart. I cannot find any reason that you read any of the articles I gave you, so you should not have responded at all in the way that you did.

Catholics, please correct me if I am wrong. To DD2007, should you throw out my response due to the very possible false statement; please listen to those with a better understanding of the faith. I would listen to somebody’s view of Calvinism if they tried to but failed to represent their religion. I hope the same would hold for you.

God Bless,
fish90
 
fish90 said:
To DD2007, should you throw out my response due to the very possible false statement; please listen to those with a better understanding of the faith. I would listen to somebody’s view of Calvinism if they tried to but failed to represent their religion. I hope the same would hold for you.
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Doesn’t a Catholic Priest, especially one known and trusted well enough to represent the Roman Church on CNN, have the best understanding of the Catholic faith one can hear?

We can see what they believe because they told the entire world right there on CNN. Those are the guys that shepard the Roman Catholic flock. They’re your leaders. What they said is how they understand things and it contradicts scripture.
 
DD2007 said:
Doesn’t a Catholic Priest, especially one known and trusted well enough to represent the Roman Church on CNN, have the best understanding of the Catholic faith one can hear?

We can see what they believe because they told the entire world right there on CNN. Those are the guys that shepard the Roman Catholic flock. They’re your leaders. What they said is how they understand things and it contradicts scripture.
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Let’s think: Are professors always right? Are teachers always right? Are physicians always right? Are nurses always right?

Are pastors always right? Are priests always right?

If you want to see what the Catholic Church believes, open up a Catechism, read the documents from Ecumenical Councils, read papal encyclicals. I don’t go to CNN to see what a religion believes…:rolleyes:

And Catholics believe that it is only through Jesus that anyone is saved. If for some reason a Hindu or a Muslim or whatever that has never heard about Jesus is saved, it is not because of their religion or their false gods, but because of Jesus.
 
and I like this post from CARM:

“Let’s say you’re a missionary to an unreached island. The people ask you if all of their dead parents, grandparents, etc. are all damned. Would you tell them that you’re absolutely sure they are? Personally, I’m not sure…perhaps God reveals His provision for sin to them…maybe near the point of death…maybe they can accept Jesus via a vision, dream, etc. I just hold back on this one. As the Pope has said…they “can be” saved (not “will be” saved). We just don’t know.”
 
DD2007 said:
Doesn’t a Catholic Priest, especially one known and trusted well enough to represent the Roman Church on CNN,
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Known and trusted by whom? You are either being dishonest, or you are laughably naive about how CNN picks its religious experts. Journalists in general tend to get a very narrow list of experts and keep them on file–how they got them in the first place tends to be quite random. Their experts may or may not be representative of the field for which they are speaking–often they aren’t.

If you want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, read the Catechism and the papal encyclicals and other official church documents. There are plenty of them to keep you busy. When you claim that an “expert” on CNN speaks for Catholicism as a whole you make yourself a laughingstock.
have the best understanding of the Catholic faith one can hear?
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There are lots of Catholic priests. And in spite of the propaganda you hear on this forum, there’s a huge diversity of opinion within the Roman Communion (actually the folks here admit this but they dismiss those who differ with them as “not really Catholic,” just as you dismiss those who differ with you as not really open to the Holy Spirit).
We can see what they believe because they told the entire world right there on CNN. Those are the guys that shepard the Roman Catholic flock. They’re your leaders.
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No, there’s no “they”–there’s one priest. One very small part of a very large communion.
What they said is how they understand things and it contradicts scripture.
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You may in fact think that the official Catholic teaching as found in the Catechism, in Lumen Gentium, and in Vatican documents such as Dominus Iesus contradicts Scripture. But if you want to attack the official Catholic teaching, those are the places you need to go. Not CNN (yikes!). I’m really trying hard to go with the “naive” rather than “dishonest” interpretation of your posts, because it’s the more charitable one. But it’s mind-blowing to me that anyone would seriously think that a priest on CNN or any other media outlet speaks for the Catholic Church.

On the other hand, if you want to make the case that theological opinion within the RCC is far from monolithic, be my guest. No doubt you think that this diversity is horrible. In that you agree with many of the Catholic posters on this forum, so I’ll let you and them go at it. To me the richness and diversity of Catholic thought is a glorious thing, even though it means that sometimes genuine heresy slips through.

Edwin
 
DD2007 said:
Doesn’t a Catholic Priest, especially one known and trusted well enough to represent the Roman Church on CNN, have the best understanding of the Catholic faith one can hear?
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No. Clearly he does not not. First, the question must be asked “trusted by whom?” Larry King is an admitted and open atheist. CNN is a news organization with a profit motive. If you mean trusted by them to represent the Catholic Church, maybe. But he is contradicting the Church, and therefore does not deserve the Church’s trust in representing Church teaching. Here is what the Church teaches, for certain, and you can take it to the bank:

“God ‘desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth’: that is Christ Jesus. Christ must be proclaimed to all nations and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the end of the earth…” Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 74, quoting and referencing 1 Timothy 3:4, John 14:6, DV7; 2 Cor. 1:20, 3:16-4:6.
DD2007 said:
We can see what they believe because they told the entire world right there on CNN. Those are the guys that shepard the Roman Catholic flock. They’re your leaders. What they said is how they understand things and it contradicts scripture.
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No. This priest is teaching against the Catholic Church, as well as against the Word of God, Jesus Christ, as He is revealed to us in Scripture and other Tradition. Again, you can take this to the bank, as the Catechism of the Catholic Church could not be more clear:

“Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation. Since ‘without faith it is impossible to please [God]’ and to attain to the fellowship of his sons, therefore without faith no one has ever attained justification, nor will anyone obtain eternal life ‘but he who endures to the end.’” Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 161, referencing Mark 16:16, John 3:36, 6:40 et al, Dei Filius 3, DS 3012, Matthew 10:22, 24:13 and Hebrews 11:6, Council of Trent DS 1532.

God bless.
 
You do realize that CNN is a liberally biased cable news station.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they purposely brought in this particular priest just to give a bad name to the Catholic Church. To make the anti-Catholics go, “Yeah! Yeah! That’s why the Catholic Church is evil! High ratings for CNN!”

Just like it wouldn’t surprise me if Fox News brought in a teacher of Islam that was erred in his ways, just for its viewers to go, “Yeah! Yeah! That’s why Islam is evil and full of terrorists! High ratings for Fox News for showing us the truth!”

…of course, you can tell that I believe that cable news is terrible due to its heavy bias. But that’s just me. 😃
 
DD2007 said:
Exibit A:

youtube.com/watch?v=bfEgYxk0MCw&feature=related
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I think that Fr. Byron missed the opportunity to say that in Catholic theology no one goes for their entire life without committing at least a venial sin, and it would be extremely unusual (and would show a remarkable degree of God’s grace) for someone to go an entire lifetime without committing a mortal sin. He also could have been clearer that this hypothetical righteous unbeliever would be saved only through Christ’s life, death, and resurrection. But I can’t see that anything he said contradicts Catholic teaching. SonofMonica, if you disagree, can you explain how what he said is unorthodox?
youtube.com/watch?v=XVfwlzf-DAE&feature=related
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Fr. Manning was arguably too confident in his claims, but again, I don’t see that what he said contradicted Catholic teaching.
youtube.com/watch?v=iZRcz9jIJUc&feature=related
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This one is perhaps the least clear, but he wasn’t given a lot of time.

I’d like to hear from Catholics on how these priests actually contradict Catholic teaching. They don’t necessarily speak *for *the Catholic Church–that a more conservative approach is quite possible within Catholicism (though not, as I understand it, one that teaches unequivocally the damnation of all who have not heard the Gospel). But having now heard what they said (I think I heard at least one of these when the interview was initially aired several years ago) I think that at worst they could have been clearer at times.
They contradict this passage directly:
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John 3:18 ESV
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Click to expand...
Only if you take it out of context. The passage is clearly talking about people who reject Jesus out of pride in their own religious attainments.
Here is what scripture says about preaching a false gospel:
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Galatians 1:8 ESV
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
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Indeed. And since neither Paul nor anyone before the Reformation taught forensic justification or made a sharp distinction between justification and sanctification or taught that all the regenerate will persevere to the end, I think that if anything Calvinists are the ones who should be worrying. (But not too badly–these issues do not in my opinion touch the fundamentals of the Gospel.)

Edwin
 
Sarah_Angel said:
You do realize that CNN is a liberally biased cable news station.

It wouldn’t surprise me if they purposely brought in this particular priest just to give a bad name to the Catholic Church. To make the anti-Catholics go, “Yeah! Yeah! That’s why the Catholic Church is evil! High ratings for CNN!”
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I don’t think that CNN is wooing fundamentalist anti-Catholics! I think that they bring in relatively liberal priests (though actually the three clips don’t seem outrageously liberal to me–the first two priests in particular go out of their way to qualify what they are saying in orthodox ways by insisting on grace and by pointing out that it is *explicit *faith that is not absolutely necessary–though I didn’t see Fr. Manning’s lips move in the second clip and maybe someone else made the point about explicit faith) because those are the ones teaching at prominent Catholic institutions and at most because they (or rather Larry King specifically–CNN is not monolithic ideologically, which is one reason I like it) see those priests as more reasonable. If Mr. King wanted to discredit Catholicism (from his perspective), he’d find some kind of ultra-conservative priest.

Edwin
 
And you expect to see a fair and accurate exposition on the theology of ANYBODY’S Church on CNN or other secular media?
 
Contrarini:

In the second video, Fr. says that one can do the “best he can” without believing in Christ and that would be good enough. He says that this is Catholic belief. Please refer to the Catechism quotes in my previous post, and you will see that this is not Catholic belief. It is his belief, and you may agree with it, but it is not the teaching of the Catholic Church.
 
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