Catholics that don't believe in miracles?

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wkj_123 said:
Surely you understand how this looks for a non thiest right? It deffenitely sets it up to look like there are no miracles/faked miracles.
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From your post I do not quite understand what your own position is. You mean you are a non-theist and don’t believe in miracles, or you’re not but you’re concerned that my post gives the wrong impression for those who are?
 
This would be the sad effect of the takeover of rationalism…and the overall attempt to “casualize” the Catholic faith and bring our practices down to the understanding of men. The mystery of God has vanished.
 
I will believe whatever the evidence shows. I have studied and do not believe the claims of any religion. The evedince just isn’t there.
 
wkj_123 said:
I will believe whatever the evidence shows. I have studied and do not believe the claims of any religion. The evedince just isn’t there.
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OK. But you are content not to believe? I mean, are you at peace with your conclusion that what is proclaimed by the religions is false?
 
Sure why not. Why would I feel compelled to believe something that there is no evidence for?
 
misstherese said:
This would be the sad effect of the takeover of rationalism…and the overall attempt to “casualize” the Catholic faith and bring our practices down to the understanding of men. The mystery of God has vanished.
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A very good point! And this “takeover of rationalism” is pervasive not only in the world at large, but also inside the Church. As I see it, the vast majority of Catholics now cherish rationality in the extreme, without themselves even being aware of how that guides their interpretation of what Catholicism is. I think it’s no exaggeration to say that for many Catholics now, their first allegiance is to rationalism, an allegiance that is very strong but unacknowledged (i.e. “subconscious”).
 
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wkj_123 said:
Sure why not. Why would I feel compelled to believe something that there is no evidence for?
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I suggest you take a look into Jordan Peterson, a psychologist who studied at Harvard. His lectures are on youtube and provide a lot of great evidence. He’s not Christian by the typical definition, but is a very intelligent professor who’s building on the work of Carl Jung. Worth checking out.

edit: I’ll link this particular video just cause I like it

 
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I agree with you. And I’d add that they stick to it in order keep chummy with atheists and not sound like unintelligent, crazy, gullible Bible thumpers or conspiracy theorists.
 
I came here when I was religious. I grew up religious and just accepted it. I began asking questions and am where I am now. I stayed because I find religious beliefs interesting and enjoy discussions I guess.
 
Do you accept eyewitness testimony as evidence like the court systems do? Why or why not?
 
Thousands of people submitted testimonials to the Catholic Church agreeing that the miracle at Fatima occurred. These people all didn’t know each other and had varying beliefs. If our court systems can make decisions on people’s lives with just a few witnesses, why wouldn’t you accept thousands of witnesses?
 
I’m glad you brought that up. This falls under the within reason stipulation. There is a major flaw in religious eyewitness testimony and that is other religions eye witness testimony. We will use your court system metaphor. Imagine hypothetically someone is shot. We will say that 200 people witnessed the shooting. The people represent religions. Now all 200 give conflicting eyewitness testimony. I don’t mean they have minor detail differences I mean they all name a different person as the shooter. Without other evidence the trial is over. Why don’t you accept other religions eyewitness testimony? People saw Muhammad split the moon in two? Do you not believe them? See they can’t all be right. So if some are wrong and since God doesn’t come down and show himself there is no way to admit the evidence.
 
But atheists and non Catholics saw it too. Not just Catholics

God will not come down and show Himself because we constantly do terrible things and that’s why Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden.
 
But you are missing something important with regard to the miracle at Fatima. The miracle was predicted 3 months earlier by 3 children who said “a lady from heaven” told them the miracle would be performed at an exact time and location “to make the people believe”.

When the children relayed this message, it spread like wildfire, and that’s why 70,000 people knew to show up at that exact location and time. As @misstherese just posted, believers and nonbelievers showed up. Each of their testimonies lined up and said the same thing - that the sun danced in the sky, people screamed for their lives, and their clothes and the ground were instantly dried. Look at the book online which contains the testimonials: http://johnhaffert.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Meet-the-Witnesses-91511.pdf
 
Eddie18 said:
In reading some of the discussions on this website, I’ve also gotten the same impression; that there are Catholics out there that either don’t believe in miracles, or don’t value them.
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Consider Jesus own disciples, (not the 12) who saw Jesus personally perform miracles… and yetwhen Jesus taught them about the Eucharist, they told Jesus to His face, that’s too hard to even listen to. And they left Him

Let’s face it, Jesus knows who has faith and who doesn’t
 
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I’m not doubting that people think they saw something. Mass hysteria is a powerful thing. If God worked a specific miracle then why did some people see nothing, or report conflicting things? And of course God hid this miracle from half the world since it’s the same sun for everyone I guess. The only explanation for only the people there seeing something is well God did it for them because they showed up. That’s the problemm if you come looking for something in a mass crowd then persuasion takes over. Again you have no problem dismissing other religions followers who are sure they saw great miracles?
 
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