Catholics to shut down 11 churches/Rochester, NY

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Catholics to shut down 11 churches

With a priest shortage and more empty pews, diocese says it has to face ‘financial realities’

Marketta Gregory
Staff writer

(November 19, 2005) — Hurt by a priest shortage and declining attendance, four Roman Catholic churches in Rochester and seven others across the Diocese of Rochester are closing as part of a far-reaching restructuring plan. Another four or five churches might be added to the list next month.

The closures are part of a five-year process in which almost every parish in the 12-county diocese was asked to partner with nearby churches and figure out how to deal with dwindling numbers of both priests and worshippers — problems that are expected only to worsen.
Read more
 
Here is another article
Closures sadden resigned faithful

Marketta Gregory
Staff writer

(November 19, 2005) — For years, Craig Murphy has put his money and his muscle into repairing and cleaning Saints Peter and Paul Church on West Main Street.

All the while, he suspected that the doors were closing on his church, this place where painted angels hang above him on a barrel-vaulted ceiling and amber stained glass casts a golden glow on the wooden pews. Read more

If you go to the website of Saints Peter and Paul. Click on the word smile under one of the arches.

Here you will see more pictures of the labyrinth walk.
 
Two ‘gay friendly’ churches slated for closing are St. Augustine and Our Lady of Good Counsel…these two will merge into the other ‘gay friendly’ church - St. Monica

These are listed as ‘gay friendly’ on this website.

**
New York
St. Andrew, St. Boniface –Brooklyn
St. Joseph’s (Greenwich Village), St. Sebastian, St. Paul the Apostle, St. Francis Xavier –New York City
Corpus Christi, Emmanuel Church of the Deaf, Our Lady of Good Counsel, St. Augustine, St. Mary’s Downtown, St. Monica –Rochester
St. Andrew the Apostle –Syracuse
St. Bridget’s –Westbury, Long Island
**
 
"The Labyrinth is an archetype, a divine imprint found in religious traditions in various forms around the world. By walking the labyrinth, we are discovering a long forgotten mystical tradition. The mysterious winding path that takes us to the center becomes a metaphor for our own spiritual journey. Going in , we release the cares and concerns which distract us from our Source. The center is a place of prayer and meditation where we receive clarity about our lives. As we walk back out on the same path that brought us in, we are granted the power to act. The walk is a shared journey—an activity which communities can do together to coalesce and unify vision.
The labyrinth is a mandala that meets our longing—for a change of heart; for a change of ways in how we live together on this fragile island; and for the energy, the vision, and the courage to become agents of transformation in an age when no less will suffice to meet the challenges of survival.

The vision of Veriditas—the world wide Labyrinth Project—is to establish labyrinth in cathedrals, retreat centers, hospitals, prisons, parks, airports, and community spaces around the world by the year 2000, so they are available to walk in times of joy, in times of sorrow, and when we are seeking hope."
** These words are on a poster of the labyrinth below**

Photo unavailable

**
**his picture is part of a poster of a labyrinth located outside the office of Sr. Mary Dumonceaux, OSF, Associate Director of the Archdiocesan Catechectical Center. The Catechectical center provides workshops to Catholic school and parish religion teachers. Catholic religion teachers need certification to teach religion to our children and grandchildren.

If all of this sounds rather pagan, then what is Sr. Dumonceaux doing with a labyrinth plastered on the wall outside of her office? The September 24, 1999 edition of Today’s Catholic featured a Catholic News Service article which describes a 36 by 36 foot canvas labyrinth located at Prince of Peace Church in Plano, Texas, where people walk into and out of the labyrinth. “The labyrinth is divided into three parts. The walk to the center is the first part and is to be spent as a time of cleansing. One reaches the second part, the center of the labyrinth, to encounter God. In the center you realize that God is the center of your life; it is a time of illumination. The walk out, the third part, is a call to respond to what has been learned.” The same article quotes Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a professor of theology at the University of Dallas, as saying, “You don’t want to deny anybody’s experience. The problem is the people who are writing about labyrinths are on the New Age side of things. Labyrinths may distract people from the core of Christianity. We need to focus on the person of Christ.” Amen to Fr. Pacwa’s insight.

Sr. Dumonceaux, pull down that poster! Promote placing Jesus Christ into the center of our lives! Replace the labyrinth with the stations of the cross and promote meditation on the passion and death of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. Promote praying the rosary and meditating on the lives of Our Savior, Jesus Christ, and His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Promote prayer and adoration before the Blessed Sacrament, the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. Promote placing the Blessed Sacrament in the center of our churches so that all may worship Jesus together, instead of having to hunt down a small obscure room or chapel. How can Jesus be in the center of our lives if he is not in the center of our churches?

COMMENTS: We wonder why our children are leaving the Catholic Church for “bible-based” religions. Labyrinth proponents like to point to the labyrinth on the floor of Chartres Cathedral in France, but there is no evidence that it has been used for anything otherthan a decoration. Finally, the words found under Sister Dumonceaux’s poster do not refer to God, but only to “our Source”— why? We invite Sister to respond and explain why she promotes the labyrinth.
1999 Defender Newsletter
 
"The Labyrinth is an archetype, a divine imprint found in religious traditions in various forms around the world. By walking the labyrinth, we are discovering a long forgotten mystical tradition. The mysterious winding path that takes us to the center becomes a metaphor for our own spiritual journey. Going in , we release the cares and concerns which distract us from our Source. The center is a place of prayer and meditation where we receive clarity about our lives. As we walk back out on the same path that brought us in, we are granted the power to act. The walk is a shared journey—an activity which communities can do together to coalesce and unify vision.

The labyrinth is a mandala that meets our longing—for a change of heart; for a change of ways in how we live together on this fragile island; and for the energy, the vision, and the courage to become agents of transformation in an age when no less will suffice to meet the challenges of survival.

*The vision of Veriditas—the world wide Labyrinth Project—is to establish labyrinth in cathedrals, retreat centers, hospitals, prisons, parks, airports, and community spaces around the world by the year 2000, so they are available to walk in times of joy, in times of sorrow, and when we are seeking hope."*These words are on a poster of the labyrinth below.

Picture unavailable
This picture is part of a poster of a labyrinth located outside the office of Sr. Mary Dumonceaux, OSF, Associate Director of the Archdiocesan Catechectical Center. The Catechectical center provides workshops to Catholic school and parish religion teachers. Catholic religion teachers need certification to teach religion to our children and grandchildren.
If all of this sounds rather pagan, then what is Sr. Dumonceaux doing with a labyrinth plastered on the wall outside of her office? The September 24, 1999 edition of Today’s Catholic featured a Catholic News Service article which describes a 36 by 36 foot canvas labyrinth located at Prince of Peace Church in Plano, Texas, where people walk into and out of the labyrinth. “The labyrinth is divided into three parts. The walk to the center is the first part and is to be spent as a time of cleansing. One reaches the second part, the center of the labyrinth, to encounter God. In the center you realize that God is the center of your life; it is a time of illumination. The walk out, the third part, is a call to respond to what has been learned.” The same article quotes Fr. Mitch Pacwa, a professor of theology at the University of Dallas, as saying, “You don’t want to deny anybody’s experience. The problem is the people who are writing about labyrinths are on the New Age side of things. Labyrinths may distract people from the core of Christianity. We need to focus on the person of Christ.” Amen to Fr. Pacwa’s insight.

Sr. Dumonceaux, pull down that poster! Promote placing Jesus Christ into the center of our lives! Replace the labyrinth with the stations of the cross and promote meditation on the passion and death of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. Promote praying the rosary and meditating on the lives of Our Savior, Jesus Christ, and His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary. Promote prayer and adoration before the Blessed Sacrament, the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. Promote placing the Blessed Sacrament in the center of our churches so that all may worship Jesus together, instead of having to hunt down a small obscure room or chapel. How can Jesus be in the center of our lives if he is not in the center of our churches?

COMMENTS: We wonder why our children are leaving the Catholic Church for “bible-based” religions. Labyrinth proponents like to point to the labyrinth on the floor of Chartres Cathedral in France, but there is no evidence that it has been used for anything otherthan a decoration. Finally, the words found under Sister Dumonceaux’s poster do not refer to God, but only to “our Source”— why? We invite Sister to respond and explain why she promotes the labyrinth.

1999 Defender Newsletter
 
Yeah, this has happened in my diocese (Syracuse NY) too. I don’t know what’s going on around here. 😦
 
Where I grew up, here in Iowa, the diocese wants to close all eight parishes in the county and build a new and huge church to serve all 6,700 Catholics.

Currently there are four priests covering the eight parishes, but within five years there will only be two priests.

Everyone is waiting for Bishop Nickless to get settled in and to make the hard decisions.
 
Sadly there aren´t enough money and priests, and happens these things.
 
Contemplative, what is your point in posting all the homophobic information? Not to mention the hilarious commentary:
We wonder why our children are leaving the Catholic Church for “bible-based” religions
Al Qaeda is also having no problem recruiting along with any number of other fundamentalist groups. It has nothing to do with TRUTH but only that people prefer simple fallacies to complex realities, even (maybe especially) within the Catholic Church.
 
The population of the city of Rochester NY is down by about 20% during the past 25 years, I would expect that the Catholic population as well is dwindling in that city.

Under that kind of demographic pressure, I’d be suprised if there weren’t church closings there, as there has been in Pittsburgh as well, we’ve had even a steeper decline in population here.

Add to that the factor that many of the ethnic groups have largely dispersed intermingled and intermarried with the rest of the population, decreasing the need substantially for ethnic based parishes, the decline in the number of priests and less Catholics in church each week, and other factors, I can’t see how church closings could be avoided.

Pittsburgh BTW has had many, many church closings, and they are continuing.

During the past 2 years, St. James, St. Joseph, St. Henry , St. Canice and St. Mary Lawrenceville have all been closed.
 
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Skotnicki:
Contemplative, what is your point in posting all the homophobic information?
What was homophobic?
Al Qaeda is also having no problem recruiting along with any number of other fundamentalist groups. It has nothing to do with TRUTH but only that people prefer simple fallacies to complex realities, even (maybe especially) within the Catholic Church.
So, you equate Al Qaeda with certain Christian churches. You may not like thier message, but the comparison is outrageous and more than a little Christophobic.
 
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Skotnicki:
Contemplative, what is your point in posting all the homophobic information? Not to mention the hilarious commentary:
First of all
I dislike you using the term homophobic. You can take this term and use it somewhere else but not here. The information I share is signifcant when considering the closure of the the churches. Furthermore, I find absolutely no humor in the article I posted.
 
I thought the article was slanted and over emphasized the priest shortage. The facts are simple. No people, no money. The number of priest is irrelevant. The diocese can’t pay the bills with empty pews.
 
Skotnicki
Contemplative, what is your point in posting all the homophobic information? Not to mention the hilarious commentary…
Back off there a bit Skot …

Contemplative is correctly tuned into the situation at hand.

Quite.
Skotnicki
Al Qaeda is also having no problem recruiting along with any number of other fundamentalist groups.
Wrong.

Here, you have incorrectly equated the Evil of terrorism with Fundamentalism. That is a philosophical error.
Skotnicki
It has nothing to do with TRUTH …
You’ve got this one down perfectly my friend. That is … perfectly backwards.

It has everything to do with Truth. Absolutely everything.

As there are those who have rejected Truth for a much more smaller “truth”. That is, they have made the personal choice to follow the “truth” of their own making, born of their pride and self-righteous anger.

So Keep Up The Good Work Contemplative!

Because it appears that God has granted you an insight into the spiritual that only could have been gained by humility, and by you having had special Love for Him.

PEACE
 
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FiremanFrank:
Back off there a bit Skot …

Contemplative is correctly tuned into the situation at hand.

Quite.
No he/she isn’t. Skotnicki (my brother, now suspended without any reason as to why) is correct because the thread is about Rochester closing parishes. Contemplative posted some information about some of the parishes scheduled to be closed possibly being friendly to homosexuals for no other reason than to equate the closure of parishes with homosexuality. There is no correlation, only homophobia.

This also follows on the heals of another thread about Bishop Clark supporting homosexual men seeking ordination to the priesthood and is nothing but slander against a bishop in good standing. A desperate attempt to show a correlation between liberal Catholicism and shrinking congregations.
Wrong.

Here, you have incorrectly equated the Evil of terrorism with Fundamentalism. That is a philosophical error.
You’ve got this one down perfectly my friend. That is … perfectly backwards.

It has everything to do with Truth. Absolutely everything.

As there are those who have rejected Truth for a much more smaller “truth”. That is, they have made the personal choice to follow the “truth” of their own making, born of their pride and self-righteous anger.

So Keep Up The Good Work Contemplative!

Because it appears that God has granted you an insight into the spiritual that only could have been gained by humility, and by you having had special Love for Him.

PEACE
It is often claimed that the reason more conservative seminaries and diocese are doing better and are more successful in recruiting people is the works of grace (this is the obvious intention of contemplative’s numerous postings in various threads on the subject of Rochester, Bishop Clark and homosexuality: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85814 forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85961
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85554
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=76781
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85423
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=84733
and especially forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=85345

My brother made the observation that the claims are rediculous since they rely on a false base. All fundamentalist groups, Christian, Jewish, Hindu or Islamic seem to have no problem recruiting members. No one is here willing to admit that fundamentalist Islam is growing because of the movements of grace, but why then attribute the growth of fundamentalist Christianity to the movements of grace?

Contemplative’s posts intentionally attempted to draw a comparison when the evidence is not there. I for one, and my family, will happily await the upcoming Vatican pronouncement on the issue of ordaining men with SSA (either for or against) and will not in the mean time resort to ad-hominem attacks on our sheperds appointed by the grace of God nor slander a group of people struggling with SSA.
 
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Smokeycat:
Contemplative posted some information about some of the parishes scheduled to be closed possibly being friendly to homosexuals for no other reason than to equate the closure of parishes with homosexuality. There is no correlation, only homophobia.
.
The readers and viewers are drawing their own conclusions. Yours and your brothers conclusions are your own.
Actually all I did was post interesting information that I found worth sharing. It really is peculiar and worth looking closely at. These ‘things’ are all worth thinking about.
The labrinyth in Sts Peter and Paul was something else I stumbled across and I happened to like the eccellent commentary printed in the Defender Newsletter.
What interesting bit of information do you have to share?..
ad-hominem attacks on our sheperds
Not at all. I cite all that share. I am sharing the facts.

I would also like to ask…seeing that you brought it up…kind of…
“isn’t it interesting that these particular closures come right on the heals of Bishop Clark’s controversial letter?”
 
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contemplative:
The readers and viewers are drawing their own conclusions. Yours and your brothers conclusions are your own.
Actually all I did was post interesting information that I found worth sharing. It really is peculiar and worth looking closely at. These ‘things’ are all worth thinking about…

What interesting bit of information do you have to share?..

Not at all. I cite all that share. I am sharing the facts.
Your juxtaposition was intentionally misleading and together with other posts of yours in other threads it displays an incredible amount of animosity against Bishop Clark and those moderate Catholics in favour of being welcoming and accepting of people who suffer from SSA.
I would also like to ask…seeing that you brought it up…kind of…
“isn’t it interesting that these particular closures come right on the heals of Bishop Clark’s controversial letter?”
Perhaps you should have read the article you posted to begin this thread:
(November 19, 2005) — Hurt by a priest shortage and declining attendance, four Roman Catholic churches in Rochester and seven others across the Diocese of Rochester are closing or have been closed as part of a far-reaching restructuring plan.
Another four or five churches might be added to the list next month.
The closures are part of a five-year process in which almost every parish in the 12-county diocese was asked to partner with nearby churches and figure out how to deal with dwindling numbers of both priests and worshippers — problems that are expected only to worsen.

Rochester’s diocese isn’t the only one facing these problems. Dioceses as close as Buffalo are struggling with the same issues of demographic change,…
About two-thirds of the parish planning groups across the diocese have turned in their restructuring plans. The rest are expected soon, which could lead to the announcement in December of more closings.
democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051119&Category=NEWS01&ArtNo=511190323&Ref=AR

Your postings would be similar to my posting
Bishop Kmiec is a member of the Canon Law Society of America, the Catholic League for Religious Assistance to Poland, the Kosciuszko Foundation, the Polish Institute of Arts and Sciences, and the American Center of Polish Culture. He is a Fourth Degree Knight of Columbus and Knight Commander of the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre.
buffalodiocese.org/bishop/bishop_edward_u_kmiec_biography.htm

right next to
As many as 100 churches in the Catholic Diocese of Buffalo would have to be closed or merged to bring the diocese in line with others of similar population, geographic size and priest numbers.
Diocesan officials said they don’t know yet how many churches would be targeted for closing or merger.
But some members of a diocesan planning commission acknowledged during interviews with The Buffalo News that they anticipate anywhere from 60 to 100 parishes could be consolidated
buffalonews.com/editorial/20051108/1064507.asp

buffalodiocese.org/stories/planning_phase_2.htm

Should I also be making the association that Bishops involved in the Knights of Columbus are the cause of parishes closing?
 
SmokeycatQuote:
Originally Posted by FiremanFrank

Back off there a bit Skot …

*Contemplative is correctly tuned into the situation at hand. *

Quite.

No he/she isn’t.
Upon reading your reply Smoke, I now find that I must amend my earlier statement.

It should read:
Contemplative is precisely tuned into the situation at hand.

Thank you Smoke, for having now convinced me of this fact.
… the thread is about Rochester closing parishes. Contemplative posted some information about some of the parishes scheduled to be closed possibly being friendly to homosexuals for no other reason than to equate the closure of parishes with homosexuality. There is no correlation, only homophobia.
The fact that you have chosen to ignore that in the present scandal in the priesthood (which has affected a far greater percentage of young boys/men than girls/women), that this could not be equated to the present closures of churches (probably due to lack of faith/support that the laity now has in their bishop/diocese) seems to me to be a rather shortsighted view of things.

More simply put Smoke:

Bishop who openly supports homosexual men in the priesthood + rampant cases of priests abusing mostly male children = less money in the collection basket = closed churches

That formula makes sense, and therefore it should not be confused with senseless allegations of “homophobia”.
This also follows on the heals of another thread about Bishop Clark supporting homosexual men seeking ordination to the priesthood and is nothing but slander against a bishop in good standing.
Guess my idea of what is a “bishop in good standing” is much different from yours, as is likely what I envision to be Catholicism - from what you may believe it is.

Thanks, but no thanks Smoke. I’m not buying it.

I will stick with my vision of the faith, as my vision runs parallel to that of Holy Mother Church.
A desperate attempt to show a correlation between liberal Catholicism and shrinking congregations.
Since liberal “catholicism” is a moral and philosophical error (and a sin), I see nothing desperate at all in that conclusion. Liberal “catholicism” can do nothing but to invite the loss of one’s faith.

That is an inevitable outcome of error, so in conclusion …

I change my opinion, not.
 
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