Catholics Trying to convert Protestants

[BrianH]

Is there an OFFICIAL Catholic view on this?
Let me elaborate. On some threads, you get a distinct sense that trying to talk a Protestant into becoming a Catholic is a very good thing. However, on some other threads, Protestants will be criticized for trying to convert Catholics. So…IS there an official view on this. Private interpretation strictly prohibited
jk opinions are fine as well

 

[nsper7]

Is there an OFFICIAL Catholic view on this?
Let me elaborate. On some threads, you get a distinct sense that trying to talk a Protestant into becoming a Catholic is a very good thing. However, on some other threads, Protestants will be criticized for trying to convert Catholics. So…IS there an official view on this. Private interpretation strictly prohibited
jk opinions are fine as well

From the Catholic standpoint, Protestants must be brought into full communion with the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of Truth and is the True Church founded by Christ on the Rock of St. Peter. From the Catholic standpoint, when Protestants try to ‘convert’ Catholics, it is horrendous because one is trying to pull someone away from the fullness of Truth in favor of an incomplete and error-filled “truth”. Obviously, Protestants will disagree.

 

[geometer]

From the Catholic standpoint, Protestants must be brought into full communion with the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church possesses the fullness of Truth and is the True Church founded by Christ on the Rock of St. Peter. From the Catholic standpoint, when Protestants try to ‘convert’ Catholics, it is horrendous because one is trying to pull someone away from the fullness of Truth in favor of an incomplete and error-filled “truth”. Obviously, Protestants will disagree.

I think if you check with a catholic theologian, you will find that it is said that the catholic church represents the “fullness of the faith”.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I expected more takers on this thread. My thoughts… It is the Holy Spirit Who does any and all converting.

I pray for unity daily. May we all be open to His will.

God bless

 

[BrianH]

Unless you are simply defending your faith from misconceptions, isn’t any attempt to argue with someone else an attempt to convert them to your view (ie your church)?
I just think we need to be consistent (yes like THATS going to happen).
It is either ok for Catholics to try to talk Protestants into Catholicism or it is not. If it is, then conversely Jehovah Witnesses, LDS, Fundamentalists should be able to do the same?

 

[JonNC]

Is there an OFFICIAL Catholic view on this?
Let me elaborate. On some threads, you get a distinct sense that trying to talk a Protestant into becoming a Catholic is a very good thing. However, on some other threads, Protestants will be criticized for trying to convert Catholics. So…IS there an official view on this. Private interpretation strictly prohibited
jk opinions are fine as well

Brian,
While I would be thrilled if all Christians viewed the Augsburg Confession as a true confession of the catholic faith, to me it is a much larger concern that those who are unchurched or have never heard the Gospel are witnessed to. IOW, our time (all Christians) is much better spent reaching out to non-Christians than proselytizing.

Additionally, I believe that dialogue leading to corporate reconciliation is a much better strategy for the cause of Christian unity than proselytizing individuals. Seems to me that JP II wrote and spoke in support of the corporate reconciliation approach, but I’m not sure.

Finally. I find the least effective activity is what one often sees from n-CC’s and Catholics alike, and that is the triumphalist approach: “We’re right, you’re wrong”, etc.

Jon

PS; Sorry if this violates the private interpretation restriction.

 

[rtconstant]

Is there an OFFICIAL Catholic view on this?
Let me elaborate. On some threads, you get a distinct sense that trying to talk a Protestant into becoming a Catholic is a very good thing. However, on some other threads, Protestants will be criticized for trying to convert Catholics. So…IS there an official view on this. Private interpretation strictly prohibited
jk opinions are fine as well

A Protestant returning to the Church is always a good thing. So yes of course Catholics desire this. The difference between Catholic and Protestant “sheep stealing” is in the intent. A Catholic who attempts to convince a Protestant is usually viewing this as bringing a Christian into a fuller communion with Christ. Usually when Protestants target Catholics they view it as making the Catholic Christian.

We (Catholics) seek unity in the Body of Christ, but Protestants who seek Catholic Conversion think they’re saving our souls by doing so. That is the major difference.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Finally. I find the least effective activity is what one often sees from n-CC’s and Catholics alike, and that is the triumphalist approach: “We’re right, you’re wrong”, etc.

Totally agree. The threads and posts I’ve gained the most from are ones where something very close to genuine dialogue occured between the main protaganists.

As soon as the triumphalists jump in, the debate tends to diminish somewhat, largely due to the fact the quality of their contribution consists of little more than, if you were intelligent you would see we’re right and you’re wrong, and if you read the Bible and understood it you’d be in the catholic church, etc etc ad finitum.

Thankfully they are not as numerous as posters like yourself, who, somehow, always manage to engage in meaningful exchanges without descending to the level of lack of charity.

Personally I’ve learned a lot from reading your posts, SSTeachers posts, Guanphore’s posts and a few others.

You’re also a pretty good example of how to post charitably - I’m learning that too

 

[JonNC]

Totally agree. The threads and posts I’ve gained the most from are ones where something very close to genuine dialogue occured between the main protaganists.

As soon as the triumphalists jump in, the debate tends to diminish somewhat, largely due to the fact the quality of their contribution consists of little more than, if you were intelligent you would see we’re right and you’re wrong, and if you read the Bible and understood it you’d be in the catholic church, etc etc ad finitum.

Thankfully they are not as numerous as posters like yourself, who, somehow, always manage to engage in meaningful exchanges without descending to the level of lack of charity.

Personally I’ve learned a lot from reading your posts, SSTeachers posts, Guanphore’s posts and a few others.

You’re also a pretty good example of how to post charitably - I’m learning that too

You’re very kind. Thanks.
Jon

 

[ferdie]

Brian,
While I would be thrilled if all Christians viewed the Augsburg Confession as a true confession of the catholic faith, to me it is a much larger concern that those who are unchurched or have never heard the Gospel are witnessed to. IOW, our time (all Christians) is much better spent reaching out to non-Christians than proselytizing.

Additionally, I believe that dialogue leading to corporate reconciliation is a much better strategy for the cause of Christian unity than proselytizing individuals. Seems to me that JP II wrote and spoke in support of the corporate reconciliation approach, but I’m not sure.

Finally. I find the least effective activity is what one often sees from n-CC’s and Catholics alike, and that is the triumphalist approach: “We’re right, you’re wrong”, etc.

Jon

PS; Sorry if this violates the private interpretation restriction.

I totally agree with this. The arguments here in non-C forum are often not Christian like. Defending the faith with some people means being offensive, and the blame goes to all of us for allowing it to happen. Catholic should remind their own and non-C should remind theirs if the talks get out of hand.
Better leave our differences to our church leaders if we can not be charitable, we are most likely to follow them anyways.

Keep it up Jon, I like your charity here in CAF, we need more non-Catholics like you with a good attitude that will bring the possibility of unity that most of us desire.

 

[ferdie]

Totally agree. The threads and posts I’ve gained the most from are ones where something very close to genuine dialogue occured between the main protaganists.

As soon as the triumphalists jump in, the debate tends to diminish somewhat, largely due to the fact the quality of their contribution consists of little more than,** if you were intelligent you would see we’re right and you’re wrong, and if you read the Bible and understood it you’d be in the catholic church, etc etc ad finitum. **

Thankfully they are not as numerous as posters like yourself, who, somehow, always manage to engage in meaningful exchanges without descending to the level of lack of charity.

Personally I’ve learned a lot from reading your posts, SSTeachers posts, Guanphore’s posts and a few others.

You’re also a pretty good example of how to post charitably - I’m learning that too

Intelligence without charity is nothing. We are not going to be judged according to our intelligence, I pray that apologists here will realize that.

 

[ELKnight]

Intelligence without charity is nothing. We are not going to be judged according to our intelligence, I pray that apologists here will realize that.

Agreed. Intelligence is only a useful tool if one has the character necessary to put it to good use.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

I think if you check with a catholic theologian, you will find that it is said that the catholic church represents the “fullness of the faith”.

No, it is the fullness of the truth.

The truth lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ.
Now the Christian religion is that religion which:
a.) Was founded by Christ personally;
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) exercises divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the church he would be as the heathen.

St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, who died in the year 202 A.D., had no doubts on this subject. “We must obey those in the Church”, he wrote, "who have **true succession **from the Apostles; for their episcopal succession they have received the gift of certainty in the **truth **according to God’s Holy Will. We must suspect all those who are CUT OFF from this original succession, whoever they may be.

 

[SSTeacher]

Is there an OFFICIAL Catholic view on this?
Let me elaborate. On some threads, you get a distinct sense that trying to talk a Protestant into becoming a Catholic is a very good thing. However, on some other threads, Protestants will be criticized for trying to convert Catholics. So…IS there an official view on this. Private interpretation strictly prohibited
jk opinions are fine as well

Within the parameters of Catholic Answers Forums, I take the official Catholic view to be what CAF Admin states it to be i.e. that Non–Catholics are not required to agree with the Catholic Church in order to participate in this forum. CAF members, whether they are Catholic or Non–Catholic, are free to discuss whatever interests them even if during the process the views they express are not entirely in line with the Catholic Church’s understanding of Christianity. Whether you’re a Catholic or a Non–Catholic you’re invited to come here and exchange news and views about creeds and needs without any restriction – unless, of course, you’re uncharitable in your commentary.

It seems, then, that the playing field really is level. Utterances by individual Catholics such as,

This is a Catholic forum so Non–Catholic views have no place here and by daring to state them you’re being disrespectful and in any case I already know people like you only come here to annoy me,

aren’t actually endorsed by the CAF Statement of Purpose. So it seems to me that if it’s OK for a Catholic to try to talk a Non–Catholic into becoming a Catholic then it’s OK for a Non–Catholic to try to talk a Catholic into becoming a Non–Catholic. And that’s what I think can frequently be observed taking place on many of the threads in the Non–Catholic Religions forum – people with opposing views and ideas trying to talk (or type) each other around.

For the genuine seeker who is seriously considering spiritual matters and who is uncertain about the direction in which to go I would suggest that the discussions and exchanges wherein the inquirer can contrast and compare his or her current worldview with a totally new and most likely daunting one are always beneficial and always necessary since it’s probably during that sometimes lengthy period of contemplation and reflection and openness to God that a conversion brought about by the Holy Spirit is most likely to take place. But what these dialogues often reveal is that some Catholics, bless ‘em, would prefer to eradicate all the discussion and move directly to RCIA without passing GO.

Ecumenically,
Mick

 

[BrianH]

No, it is the fullness of the truth.

The truth lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ.
Now the Christian religion is that religion which:
a.) Was founded by Christ personally;
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) exercises divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the church he would be as the heathen.

St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, who died in the year 202 A.D., had no doubts on this subject. “We must obey those in the Church”, he wrote, "who have **true succession **from the Apostles; for their episcopal succession they have received the gift of certainty in the **truth **according to God’s Holy Will. We must suspect all those who are CUT OFF from this original succession, whoever they may be.

To clarify, and I am pretty sure I know your perspective, it is a good thing for the different groups to attempt to convert one another?

 

[suethenurse]

Agreed. Intelligence is only a useful tool if one has the character necessary to put it to good use.

I hope I have the intelligence to explain my thoughts here! I am an ordained United Methodist minister. I do not feel it is my job to “convert” Catholics to my denomination. I do feel that it is my responsibility to lead non-believers to Christ. For me to lead a member of another denomination to my church because I personally feel mine is right and theirs is wrong would be morally wrong on my part. I have, actually, urged Catholics who are estranged from their to church to return to their church to try to resolve their issues.

Once I was confronted by an acquaintance who said that the Bible I used was not valid. I then defensively explained that Jesus did not use the words “thee” and “thou.” (This person belonged to a denomination that accepted only one particular version of the Bible as authentic.) When I finally got her to understood that Jesus spoke Aramaic and actually did not speak English and did not use the terms “thee” and “thou,” she cried. She felt her church had lied to her and she stopped going to church. What I said damaged her faith. It was not my intent to damage her faith, but I did. Nothing I said could undo the damage. I really had to question my own motives–and I came up short. I asked her forgiveness, but she thanked me. It was no victory for me. We have to be careful. There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence.

 

[BrianH]

A Protestant returning to the Church is always a good thing. So yes of course Catholics desire this. The difference between Catholic and Protestant “sheep stealing” is in the intent. A Catholic who attempts to convince a Protestant is usually viewing this as bringing a Christian into a fuller communion with Christ. Usually when Protestants target Catholics they view it as making the Catholic Christian.

We (Catholics) seek unity in the Body of Christ, but Protestants who seek Catholic Conversion think they’re saving our souls by doing so. That is the major difference.

Ok so the presuppositions are different and you stated them quite well in many cases but it results in the same actions…an attempt to change the other one’s views and beliefs. Agree? Disagree?

 

[Guyonthestreet]

The truth lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ.
Now the Christian religion is that religion which:
a.) Was founded by Christ personally;
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) exercises divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the church he would be as the heathen.

Cut and pasted from here:

1. What positive proof have you that the Catholic Church is the only true Church?

The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic Church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now the Christian religion is that religion which — (a) Was founded by Christ personally; (b) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ; (c) Is Catholic or universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the world and teach all nations; (d) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine; (e) Exercises divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2266524/posts

OnetrueCathApos:

St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, who died in the year 202 A.D., had no doubts on this subject. “We must obey those in the Church”, he wrote, "who have **true succession **from the Apostles; for their episcopal succession they have received the gift of certainty in the **truth **according to God’s Holy Will. We must suspect all those who are CUT OFF from this original succession, whoever they may be.

Cut and pasted from here:

1. What is the opinion of the early Fathers on Apostolicity?

St. Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons, who died in the year 202 A.D., had no doubts on this subject. “We must obey those in the Church,” he wrote, “who have true succession from the Apostles; for with their episcopal succession they have received the gift of certainty in the truth according to God’s holy will. We must suspect all those who are cut off from this original succession, whoever they may be.”

geocities.com/timothyc1/qtruechu.html

Are you completely and totally incapable of forming your own answer to anything without plagiarizing everyone else’s work and cobbling it together to make it look like your own?

Do you really have so little to contribute???

Do you really not have a single original thought, idea or expression to share???

Apparently not.

You have been asked this so many times before, but when you use someone else’s work, give them the credit for it.

It’s just the right thing to do. Ya know. And it’s not hard. If you need help with referrencing things properly just ask - tons of us here will be willing to help you.

But please, for the umpteenth time of asking, stop plagiarizing from other peoples work and other websites and passing stuff off as your own thought-out reply when it isn’t, You’re just mimicing what others have said.

Let’s hear what you have to say. Give it a shot - you might surprise yourself - and us !!!

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Once I was confronted by an acquaintance who said that the Bible I used was not valid. I then defensively explained that Jesus did not use the words “thee” and “thou.” (This person belonged to a denomination that accepted only one particular version of the Bible as authentic.) When I finally got her to understood that Jesus spoke Aramaic and actually did not speak English and did not use the terms “thee” and “thou,” she cried. She felt her church had lied to her and she stopped going to church. What I said damaged her faith. It was not my intent to damage her faith, but I did. Nothing I said could undo the damage. I really had to question my own motives–and I came up short. I asked her forgiveness, but she thanked me. It was no victory for me. We have to be careful. There is a difference between wisdom and intelligence.

And you sound very wise - as well as intelligent Interesting insightful post.

 

[geometer]

e.) exercises divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the church he would be as the heathen.

I think that I know where you got this, but it is not a direct quote. He was telling them that unrepentant sinners should be treated like taxcollectors and gentiles.

He would have nothing to do with gentiles. Rabbis are like that.

Why would anyone have to be catholic to be in possesion of the truth? The truth about what?