Catholics Unfairly Treated In Abuse Story

[Lampo]

Obviously, one instance of child sexual abuse is one too many! When it happens in the Catholic Church, it no doubt gets more press than when the same thing happens in say, public schools. Which, by the way, happens MUCH more frequently than within the Catholic Church. Maybe someone here knows the stats on that.

Why do you think this is? My thought is because of Satan. Satan hates God, His Church and humans, which are made in the image and likeness of God. Satan is going to attack the real deal, so to speak.

The sexual abuse scandal that happened in the Church only proves that there are sinners in the Church. Doesn’t nullify the divinity of the Catholic Church. Those same priests were able to turn the bread and wine into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

Analogy: Could the best brain surgeon in the world still perform brain surgery if he is addicted to gambling?

 

[Randy_Carson]

This is a truthful look at the situation and an honest evaluation of how it has been handled. Thank you for having your eyes opened and looking at this horrific situation with truth.

I hope that your eyes will be opened to examine just how horrific this issue is within non-Catholic churches.

Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year
By Rose French
June 18, 2007
insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm

The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.

The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down — the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.

Religious groups and victims’ supporters have been keenly interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950.

Protestant numbers have been harder to come by and are sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church; indeed, many congregations are independent, which makes reporting even more difficult.

 

[Calvinator]

I hope that your eyes will be opened to examine just how horrific this issue is within non-Catholic churches.

Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year
By Rose French
June 18, 2007
insurancejournal.com/news/national/2007/06/18/80877.htm

The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.

The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down — the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.

Religious groups and victims’ supporters have been keenly interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950.

Protestant numbers have been harder to come by and are sketchier because the denominations are less centralized than the Catholic church; indeed, many congregations are independent, which makes reporting even more difficult.

---

Linked Article:

The three companies that insure the majority of Protestant churches in America say they typically receive upward of 260 reports each year of young people under 18 being sexually abused by ** (protestant) clergy, church staff, volunteers or congregation members.**

The figures released to The Associated Press offer a glimpse into what has long been an extremely difficult phenomenon to pin down — the frequency of sex abuse in Protestant congregations.

Religious groups and victims’ supporters have been keenly interested in the figure ever since the Roman Catholic sex abuse crisis hit five years ago. The church has revealed that there have been 13,000 credible accusations against Catholic clerics since 1950.

If one is interested in comparing protestant abuses vs catholic abuses, **this report isn’t the one to base any conclusions on **since the article is comparing apples and oranges.

In fact it’s very dishonest to post such a report and then try to encourage people to see how horrific the problem is in non-catholic churches.

First, the catholic number only represents the accusations deemed as credible by, none other than the RCC and we all know how honest the RCC has been in all of this. How much lower would the protestant number be if it only included those accusations that they deemed credible? Apples and oranges here folks.

Secondly, the catholic number only represents those cases against catholic clerics deemed credible by the RCC.

The protestant number includes reports of abuse by protestant clergy, church staff, volunteers and church members. C’mon, how much lower would the protestant number be if it only included protestant clergy? One number includes abuses deemed credible by the RCC by catholic clerics and the other number includes reports of abuses by pretty much anybody involved w/ a protestant church. C’mon…apples and oranges.

This report is meaningless in that it doesn’t compare like with like and it is very dishonest to post such a report and then encourage folks to base an opinion off of it.

No one is arguing that abuses don’t happen in protestant churches but to use this report a basis to draw any conclusions from is silly.

 

[dosdog]

SEXUAL ABUSE IN SOCIAL CONTEXT:

In the spring of 2002, when the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church was receiving unprecedented attention, the Christian Science Monitor reported on the results of national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources. The conclusion: “Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.”

Finally, in the authoritative work by Penn State professor Philip Jenkins, Pedophiles and Priests, it was determined that between .2 and 1.7 percent of priests are pedophiles. The figure among the Protestant clergy ranges between 2 and 3 percent.

CONCLUSION

The issue of child sexual molestation is deserving of serious scholarship. Too often, assumptions have been made that this problem is worse in the Catholic clergy than in other sectors of society. This report does not support this conclusion. Indeed, it shows that family members are the most likely to sexually molest a child. It also shows that the incidence of the sexual abuse of a minor is slightly higher among the Protestant clergy than among the Catholic clergy, and that it is significantly higher among public school teachers than among ministers and priests.
catholicleague.org/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

260 reports of abuse yearly in Protestant churches
SEX SCANDALS | Long-sought number surfaces
suntimes.com/lifestyles/religion/429030,CST-NWS-prot15.article

$2.5-million lawsuit against another teacher
Sun Media (Toronto Canada)
torontosun.com/News/2007/01/27/3459840-sun.html

Interpol launches global hunt for Internet paedophile
Thais Arrest Canadian Child-Sex Suspect
A three-year global manhunt for a Canadian schoolteacher suspected of sexually abusing Asian boys ended Friday when police raided a house in northeastern Thailand
lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/w-asia/2007/oct/19/101904043.html

 

[PaulDupre]

For many of us in other faith traditions…it makes no sense that a godly man who does not derive his “authority” from Rome can offer a blessing over the bread and wine and it’s 'false", but a priest who preys on children can speak the words of consecration one moment and not 10-15 minutes prior…“feel up” or “rape” a child…and it’s the “body and blood of Christ.”

The efficacy of a sacrament does not depend on the personal righteousness of the priest. That is because it is Christ Himself, and not the priest, who really performs the sacrament. The issue is authority, not personal righteousness. If it were a matter of the priest’s righteousness, then the sacraments would exist along a continuum of efficacy, just like we all exist along a continuum of obedience to the gospel. That’s not what Jesus promised.

That being said, a priest who is ordained of Christ to perform the sacraments but causes scandal via sexual sin or any other means, will receive a much greater punishment than an ordinary man.

Paul

 

[Publisher]

The efficacy of a sacrament does not depend on the personal righteousness of the priest. That is because it is Christ Himself, and not the priest, who really performs the sacrament. The issue is authority, not personal righteousness. If it were a matter of the priest’s righteousness, then the sacraments would exist along a continuum of efficacy, just like we all exist along a continuum of obedience to the gospel. That’s not what Jesus promised.

That being said, a priest who is ordained of Christ to perform the sacraments but causes scandal via sexual sin or any other means, will receive a much greater punishment than an ordinary man.

Paul

I do understand the reasons you hold…but coming from a faith tradition that does not believe in a priesthood other than the "priesthood of believers’, it boggles my mind, and the mind of others to think that “Christ” is specially present in this man in a way that he is not in others.

Most Protestants do not feel that any ‘intermediary’ other than Christ is necessary, therefore no special “authority” exists to “perfect sacraments” as such things were fulfilled and comes to us in Christ.

It is not that “we” don’t understand your reasons, it’s that we cannot get “our minds around” someone acting so terrible as to abuse a child, then “exercising” their authority in a sacramental capacity…that we should recieve anything from such unclean hands…there is One we do not have to worry about…it is to him we turn…our Great High Priest himself…this is what most have difficulty getting “our minds around.”

 

[dosdog]

I do understand the reasons you hold…but coming from a faith tradition that does not believe in a priesthood other than the "priesthood of believers’, it boggles my mind, and the mind of others to think that “Christ” is specially present in this man in a way that he is not in others.

Most Protestants do not feel that any ‘intermediary’ other than Christ is necessary, therefore no special “authority” exists to “perfect sacraments” as such things were fulfilled and comes to us in Christ.

It is not that “we” don’t understand your reasons, it’s that we cannot get “our minds around” someone acting so terrible as to abuse a child, then “exercising” their authority in a sacramental capacity…that we should recieve anything from such unclean hands…there is One we do not have to worry about…it is to him we turn…our Great High Priest himself…this is what most have difficulty getting “our minds around.”

St Paul killed St Stephen - You guys cant get enough of Him

Antinomianism
The heretical doctrine that Christians are exempt from the obligations of moral law. The term first came into use at the Protestant Reformation, when it was employed by Martin Luther to designate the teachings of Johannes Agricola and his secretaries, who, pushing a mistaken and perverted interpretation of the Reformer’s doctrine of justification by faith alone to a far-reaching but logical conclusion, asserted that, as good works do not promote salvation, so neither do evil works hinder it; and, as all Christians are necessarily sanctified by their very vocation and profession, so as justified Christians, they are incapable of losing their spiritual holiness, justification, and final salvation by any act of disobedience to, or even by any direct violation of the law of God

In any case, it is generally understood that Antinomianism was professed by more than one of the Gnostic schools. Several passages of the New Testament writings are quoted in support of the contention that even as early as Apostolic times it was found necessary to single out and combat this heresy in its theoretical or dogmatic as well as in its grosser and practical form. The indignant words of St. Paul in his Epistles to the Romans and to the Ephesians (Romans 3:8, 31; 6:1; Ephesians 5:6), as well as those of St. Peter, the Second Epistle (2 Peter 2:18, 19), seem to lend direct evidence in favour of this view. Forced into a somewhat doubtful prominence by the “slanderers” against whom the Apostle found it necessary to warn the faithful, persisting spasmodically in several of the Gnostic bodies, and possibly also colouring some of the tenets of the Abigenses, Antinomianism reappeared definitely, as a variant of the Protestant doctrine of faith, early in the history of the German Reformation
newadvent.org/cathen/01564b.htm

The Sacrament of Penance
newadvent.org/cathen/11618c.htm
Penance is a sacrament of the New Law instituted by Christ in which forgiveness of sins committed after baptism is granted through the priest’s absolution to those who with true sorrow confess their sins and promise to satisfy for the same. It is called a “sacrament” not simply a function or ceremony, because it is an outward sign instituted by Christ to impart grace to the soul. As an outward sign it comprises the actions of the penitent in presenting himself to the priest and accusing himself of his sins, and the actions of the priest in pronouncing absolution and imposing satisfaction. This whole procedure is usually called, from one of its parts, “confession”, and it is said to take place in the “tribunal of penance”, because it is a judicial process in which the penitent is at once the accuser, the person accused, and the witness, while the priest pronounces judgment and sentence. The grace conferred is deliverance from the guilt of sin and, in the case of mortal sin, from its eternal punishment; hence also reconciliation with God, justification. Finally, the confession is made not in the secrecy of the penitent’s heart nor to a layman as friend and advocate, nor to a representative of human authority, but to a duly ordained priest with requisite jurisdiction and with the “power of the keys”, i.e., the power to forgive sins which Christ granted to His Church.

 

[BrewMax]

It’s been very fashionable in the news to focus attention on stories where Catholic priests have been involved in scandals. (see foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289428,00.html) These are serious problems but intentionally distorted out of proportion by a press antagonositic to religion. The problem in the public schools is far more common and in comparison raging out of control. The problem in the schools is a far more serious threat but receives little attention

I believe that you are trying to divert the problem onto others. The facts are that if the Catholic church had ackowledged that this was going on and dealt with it straight on and swiftly, it would have not become the huge media spectacle that it turned out to be. Other churches and institutions have had these instances on probably similar magnitudes, but the difference is how they were handled. Unfortunatley for the Catholic church, the problem priests were not acknowledged, but moved around from diocese to diocese and in some instances from country to country.

 

[dosdog]

I believe that you are trying to divert the problem onto others. The facts are that if the Catholic church had ackowledged that this was going on and dealt with it straight on and swiftly, it would have not become the huge media spectacle that it turned out to be. Other churches and institutions have had these instances on probably similar magnitudes, but the difference is how they were handled. Unfortunatley for the Catholic church, the problem priests were not acknowledged, but moved around from diocese to diocese and in some instances from country to country.

Still, he said, he does not believe the problem of sexual abuse in Southern Baptist churches is “systematic and large-scale.”

“[F]or years the press has complained that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has enabled the hiding of sexual predators,” Page wrote. “Now, they are stating that the lack of our hierarchy is helping hide sexual predators. The truth is that people can abuse any system. There are people who seek out positions in the church where the trust level can be so high that they can then be involved in horrible actions.”
abpnews.com/2013.article

Baptist Hide & Seek
Baptist scholars confirm this: “The problem of clergy sexual abuse is not just a Catholic issue…Studies have shown no difference in its frequency by denomination, region, theology, or institutional structure.” But while Catholics and most mainline Protestant denominations have developed national policies to deal with the problem, “decentralized denominations such as the Southern Baptist Convention…have no national policies” and “sexual misconduct is routinely covered up in these settings.” Trull & Carter, Ministerial Ethics at p. 162 (2d ed. 2004).

stopbaptistpredators.org/BaptistHideSeek.html

 

[BrewMax]

Still, he said, he does not believe the problem of sexual abuse in Southern Baptist churches is “systematic and large-scale.”

“[F]or years the press has complained that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church has enabled the hiding of sexual predators,” Page wrote. “Now, they are stating that the lack of our hierarchy is helping hide sexual predators. The truth is that people can abuse any system. There are people who seek out positions in the church where the trust level can be so high that they can then be involved in horrible actions.”
abpnews.com/2013.article

Baptist Hide & Seek
Baptist scholars confirm this: “The problem of clergy sexual abuse is not just a Catholic issue…Studies have shown no difference in its frequency by denomination, region, theology, or institutional structure.” But while Catholics and most mainline Protestant denominations have developed national policies to deal with the problem, “decentralized denominations such as the Southern Baptist Convention…have no national policies” and “sexual misconduct is routinely covered up in these settings.” Trull & Carter, Ministerial Ethics at p. 162 (2d ed. 2004).

stopbaptistpredators.org/BaptistHideSeek.html

Nobody is saying that child sexual abuse is exclusive to the Catholic church. I am merely stating that if it were dealt with in a swift and effective manner, it would have been much less of a problem for the church. Still, this has discredited the church severely as well it should. Sinful as all humans are, these are supposed men in Apostollic succession. This cuts far deeper to those who believe that the Catholic church clergy could be trusted beyond most if not all others.

 

[dosdog]

Nobody is saying that child sexual abuse is exclusive to the Catholic church. I am merely stating that if it were dealt with in a swift and effective manner, it would have been much less of a problem for the church. .

Survey: Protestant majority disappearing in the USA
Between 1993 and 2002, the share of Americans who said they were Protestant dropped from 63% to 52%, after years of remaining generally stable, according to a study released Tuesday by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago.
usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-07-20-survey-protestants_x.htm

Protestant churches struggle to fill pulpits
Protestant leaders in the past five years have been anxiously discussing shortages in their own ranks.

Reasons for shortages
Protestant church officials cite many factors for why people choose not to go into ministry, including more interest in high-paying professions, the cost of attending seminary, a failure by churches to recruit and a growing secular mindset in society.
Denominational leaders also say many ministers simply have burned out. Church dissension, combined with low pay and long hours, is “chewing up and spitting out wonderful people of God,” said a 1999 study in one denomination, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. The study found one-fifth of pastors in advanced stages of burnout; other denominations acknowledge similar problems.

Factory job losses there are making it harder for church members to afford pastors’ salaries
Many smaller churches now share pastors or rely on lay pastors or retirees.

Growing older
Several Protestant denominations report that their corps of pastors is not just decreasing but aging,

In many seminaries, the admission requirement became that “you had to have in range of a 98.6 temperature,” said R. Robert Cueni, president of Lexington Theological Seminary.
usatoday.com/news/religion/2004-04-21-clergy-gns_x.htm

The Roman Catholic continues to grow globally. It has even reversed the trend in defections from her to pentecostal and evangelical churches in Latin America.
manilatimes.net/national/2007/apr/08/yehey/top_stories/20070408top1.html

Catholics set to pass Anglicans as leading UK church - that was the lead story in the Times on Thursday - the story was based on a report from Cambridge University into the lives of Catholic immigrants, which also predicted that the number of regular Catholic churchgoers will soon overtake Anglicans on present trends
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1386939.ece

September 6, 2007 Catholic Population Officially Leaps To 650,000 ATLANTA—The Catholic Church in North Georgia is now the 26th largest diocese in the country, falling between El Paso, Texas, and Providence, R.I.

The Atlanta Archdiocese recently updated its official Catholic population figure, nearly doubling in size to 650,000 from 350,000. Leaders said the new headcount better reflects reality as the church comes to grips with its 10 years of explosive growth… georgiabulletin.org/local/2007/09/06/pop/

The latest United Council of Churches’ report in its 75th Yearbook of American and Canadian churches says that the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church (the LDS or the Latter Day Saints) have maintained their 2006 and earlier rate of growth The top 25 churches that grew in the USA and Canada, per the UCC 2007 report, are:

1. The Catholic Church, 69,135,254 increase of 1.94 percent

there are some areas where Catholic growth was greater than population growth.
There was an increase of 3.1% of Catholics in Africa, whose population has grown by slightly less than 2.5%, the communiqué said. “The Asian and American continents have also registered a higher increase in Catholics than in population growth, 2.71% against 1.18% for Asia, and 1.2% against 0.9% for America,” continued the Vatican statement. There was a slight increase of Catholics in Europe.

The Pontifical Yearbook revealed that the number of diocesan and religious priests rose to 406,411 from 405,891

The percentage increases were much higher in Asia and Africa, 3.8% and 3.55%, respectively, it noted. This is in contrast to "Europe and America with a percentage decrease of about a half point,

Africa and Asia proportionately had more priests, the Vatican statement noted: “Africa and Asia together provided 19.58% to the world’s overall number in 2004; in 2005 their contribution had risen to 20.28%.”

The Americas maintained a percentage of around 29.8%, while Oceania stayed stable, at slightly over 1% of the world’s priests, according to the communiqué
jknirp.com/numcat.htm

 

[Publisher]

Survey: Protestant majority disappearing in the USA
Between 1993 and 2002, the share of Americans who said they were Protestant dropped from 63% to 52%, after years of remaining generally stable, according to a study released Tuesday by the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago.
usatoday.com/news/nation/2004-07-20-survey-protestants_x.htm

Protestant churches struggle to fill pulpits
Protestant leaders in the past five years have been anxiously discussing shortages in their own ranks.

Reasons for shortages
Protestant church officials cite many factors for why people choose not to go into ministry, including more interest in high-paying professions, the cost of attending seminary, a failure by churches to recruit and a growing secular mindset in society.
Denominational leaders also say many ministers simply have burned out. Church dissension, combined with low pay and long hours, is “chewing up and spitting out wonderful people of God,” said a 1999 study in one denomination, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod. The study found one-fifth of pastors in advanced stages of burnout; other denominations acknowledge similar problems.

Factory job losses there are making it harder for church members to afford pastors’ salaries
Many smaller churches now share pastors or rely on lay pastors or retirees.

Growing older
Several Protestant denominations report that their corps of pastors is not just decreasing but aging,

In many seminaries, the admission requirement became that “you had to have in range of a 98.6 temperature,” said R. Robert Cueni, president of Lexington Theological Seminary.
usatoday.com/news/religion/2004-04-21-clergy-gns_x.htm

The Roman Catholic continues to grow globally. It has even reversed the trend in defections from her to pentecostal and evangelical churches in Latin America.
manilatimes.net/national/2007/apr/08/yehey/top_stories/20070408top1.html

Catholics set to pass Anglicans as leading UK church - that was the lead story in the Times on Thursday - the story was based on a report from Cambridge University into the lives of Catholic immigrants, which also predicted that the number of regular Catholic churchgoers will soon overtake Anglicans on present trends
timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1386939.ece

September 6, 2007 Catholic Population Officially Leaps To 650,000 ATLANTA—The Catholic Church in North Georgia is now the 26th largest diocese in the country, falling between El Paso, Texas, and Providence, R.I.

The Atlanta Archdiocese recently updated its official Catholic population figure, nearly doubling in size to 650,000 from 350,000. Leaders said the new headcount better reflects reality as the church comes to grips with its 10 years of explosive growth… georgiabulletin.org/local/2007/09/06/pop/

The latest United Council of Churches’ report in its 75th Yearbook of American and Canadian churches says that the Catholic Church and the Mormon Church (the LDS or the Latter Day Saints) have maintained their 2006 and earlier rate of growth The top 25 churches that grew in the USA and Canada, per the UCC 2007 report, are:

1. The Catholic Church, 69,135,254 increase of 1.94 percent

there are some areas where Catholic growth was greater than population growth.
There was an increase of 3.1% of Catholics in Africa, whose population has grown by slightly less than 2.5%, the communiqué said. “The Asian and American continents have also registered a higher increase in Catholics than in population growth, 2.71% against 1.18% for Asia, and 1.2% against 0.9% for America,” continued the Vatican statement. There was a slight increase of Catholics in Europe.

The Pontifical Yearbook revealed that the number of diocesan and religious priests rose to 406,411 from 405,891

The percentage increases were much higher in Asia and Africa, 3.8% and 3.55%, respectively, it noted. This is in contrast to "Europe and America with a percentage decrease of about a half point,

Africa and Asia proportionately had more priests, the Vatican statement noted: “Africa and Asia together provided 19.58% to the world’s overall number in 2004; in 2005 their contribution had risen to 20.28%.”

The Americas maintained a percentage of around 29.8%, while Oceania stayed stable, at slightly over 1% of the world’s priests, according to the communiqué
jknirp.com/numcat.htm

Are the figures showing Catholic stability due to children being “born into the faith” or are those figures “by profession of faith”? New converts as opposed to births?

Most Protestant groups do not record children born to members as “members” until they make “a profession of faith” either through baptism, confirmation or a formal petition for church membership.

 

[Mannyfit75]

I read a report recently that dispute the sex abuse scandal, Catholics remain committed to the Church rather than leave it. I forgot which Article it was in.

 

[dosdog]

Are the figures showing Catholic stability due to children being “born into the faith” or are those figures “by profession of faith”? New converts as opposed to births?

Most Protestant groups do not record children born to members as “members” until they make “a profession of faith” either through baptism, confirmation or a formal petition for church membership.

Conversion Stories
catholic-convert.com/Default.aspx?tabid=66

Qatar’s first Catholic Church will be inaugurated in February
Doha, Sep. 26, 2007 (CWNews.com) - The first Catholic church in Qatar, dedicated to Our Lady of the Rosary, will be consecrated in February 2008, the AsiaNews service reports.
asianews.it/index.php?l=en&art=10388&size=A

Anglican group seeks full communion with Rome
16th October 2007 Statement authorised by the TAC Primate
" The College of Bishops of the Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) met in Plenary Session in Portsmouth, England, in the first week of October 2007. The Bishops and Vicars-General unanimously agreed to the text of a letter to the See of Rome seeking full, corporate, sacramental union. The letter was signed solemnly by all the College and entrusted to the Primate and two bishops chosen by the College to be presented to the Holy See.

2007 August / September Issue
Canadian Synod thumbs up to visible communion with Rome or Orthodoxy
The Messenger Journal
themessenger.com.au/news.htm

Around 15,000 Muslims each year are converting to Christianity -
around 10,000 to Catholicism and 5,000 to Protestantism. Many Muslims in France hide their conversion but the trend is continuing. World wide around six million Muslims a year convert to Christianity.
zeenews.com/articles.asp?rep=2&aid=352375&sid=ZNS

 

[dosdog]

‘Rabbis told Jews to shun Evangelicals’
Israeli rabbinic authorities have abruptly called on Jews to shun a major Christian tourism event, baffling and upsetting evangelical groups that traditionally have been big supporters of the Jewish state. More than 6,000 Christians from more than 90 nations are expected to arrive in Jerusalem this week to take part in the 28th annual Christian celebration of the weeklong Jewish holiday of Sukkot, or Feast of Tabernacles, according to the event’s organizers, the International Christian Embassy Jerusalem.

But this year the chief rabbinate urged Jews to stay away from the event, saying some of the groups want to convert them to Christianity. Proselytizing is illegal in Israel.

“According to information that has reached the chief rabbinate, there are participants in this conference who convert Jews to Christianity and perform missionary activity throughout the year,” said Rabbi Simcha Hacohen Kook, the chief rabbi of Rehovot, who took part in committee discussions of the matter. “This is against the law, so the chief rabbinate is calling upon Jews not to take part in the conference.”

Israel has laws against missionary work, and for many here, proselytizing is dangerously close to the forced conversions European Jews endured for centuries.

The group’s organizers said they were upset by the rabbis’ call. “It is disappointing to learn that some rabbinic authorities are trying to discourage the Jewish public from participating in this traditional march,” said the Rev. Malcolm Hedding, the ICEJ’s executive director. “The ICEJ has never conducted any missionary programs in Israel and we clearly instruct our Feast pilgrims against such activity during their stay here.”

The ICEJ says its supporters do not accept teachings accepted by some other Christian groups that masses of Jews will die in the final climactic battle between God and Satan if they do not accept Jesus.
jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1189411469471&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

 

[BrewMax]

I read a report recently that dispute the sex abuse scandal, Catholics remain committed to the Church rather than leave it. I forgot which Article it was in.

Those are both anti-Protestant in nature. Heavily biased propaganda such as this will rot you brain.

 

[Singinbeauty]

Hello Everyone,

This is a subject that cuts deep with me for reasons I don’t want to get into. But what I want to contribute is this:

The world is very confused, angry, and missing God SO much. They hunger for Him even if they don’t want to admit it. Churches are thought of as squeaky clean and righteous even by those who claim there is no god. There are those who claim to be agnostic but fear of walking into a church lest they get struck down by lightning. Why do I make this point? Because when the Church, Christ’s Universal Church, screws up (even if it is a mere human) the world loses just a little more hope that it was clinging to because they rely on US to show them the light and when that light is so publically dimmed it takes them a while to see it light back up. They view us as already perfect even though we are far from it and when one person screws up it makes for harsh times on the rest of us. It’s how the world works unfortunately.

This is why the media bombards the news with these stories. Because it still shocks them to this day that a perfect Church, catholic or protestant, would have members that screw up. They forget that we are human too. I guess this can be viewed as a good thing. They haven’t lost hope that we can be perfect yet!!!

But because of this fear of God that they have, even if they proclaim He doesn’t exist, they focus on us to show them that He is real instead of going to Him and talking it out with the Almighty. It is so sad but true.

What makes it worse is when the Church (protestant or catholic) tries to cover up these atrocities and make it like it never happened.

 

[dosdog]

Those are both anti-Protestant in nature. Heavily biased propaganda such as this will rot you brain.

You cannot handle the truth -
The 1,200 or so megachurches (defined as churches where 2,000 or more people attend weekend worship) are only one-half of 1% of all U.S. churches and account for only 5% of all weekend worship attenders," Thumma says.
“And my sense, after years of examining megachurches, is that 80% of the people who join, including those who go through new member classes, are gone within the first two years.”

Says Brad Waggoner, LifeWay’s vice president of research and ministry development: “There’s no simple answer why people are so restless.”

Decades ago, American culture supported church loyalty out of respect for the church, obligation to family, or social expectations. Now, he says, that culture has shifted.

Waggoner also sees other factors at work, such as increased skepticism or cynicism in the wake of clergy sexual abuse or financial scandals. And some are turned off by divisiveness in denominations over doctrine and practice, he says.

The Southern Baptist Convention, he says, still feels the effect of a revolution in leadership in the 1980s that restored theological conservatives to power. The Episcopal Church is struggling now with dissention over views of the Bible and the role of gay clergy.

Though individual churches and pastors can’t erase those overarching concerns, the survey suggests there is a great deal they can change or do to stem the restless tide of switchers and dropouts, Waggoner says.

usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-04-22-church-switch_N.htm

Most of the switchers who changed their house of worship without making a residential move (58%) say their old church failed to engage their faith, or put their talents to work, or it seemed hypocritical or judgmental.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Those are both anti-Protestant in nature. Heavily biased propaganda such as this will rot you brain.

You are so frustrated with our apologetical testimony of our Catholic, you would go at such length to become uncharitable by using terms as “rot you brain.”

These aren’t propaganda. What we defend is Truth, which the Church is the pillar and bulwark of.

I don’t even know why you who have repeately complain about so called, “Anti-Protestant bias” in a Catholic Forum…" Tsk tsk, my separated brother in Christ.

Most of your thread is mainly assaulting the Catholic Church. This prompt us to defend it and at times, the truth, which we speak of maybe difficult for you to comprehend. You have no choice not accept Catholicism as true, if you did Protestantism itself prove to be false, which I believe is false. The 33,000 diverse denomination can attest to that.

 

[BrewMax]

You are so frustrated with our apologetical testimony of our Catholic, you would go at such length to become uncharitable by using terms as “rot you brain.”

These aren’t propaganda. What we defend is Truth, which the Church is the pillar and bulwark of.

I don’t even know why you who have repeately complain about so called, “Anti-Protestant bias” in a Catholic Forum…" Tsk tsk, my separated brother in Christ.

Most of your thread is mainly assaulting the Catholic Church. This prompt us to defend it and at times, the truth, which we speak of maybe difficult for you to comprehend. You have no choice not accept Catholicism as true, if you did Protestantism itself prove to be false, which I believe is false. The 33,000 diverse denomination can attest to that.

The problem here is that you go to great lengths to defend and uphold something that you cannot remotely prove is the truth.