Catholic's view on homosexuality?

[mosher]

LCMS_No_More:

Yet note it wasn’t changed to say that homosexual persons choose to be same-sex attracted. In fact, the Church says that the psychological genesis is not yet known. If it were a conscious choice, then someone could decide, “Okay, I’m choosing to be straight.” I wish it were that simple, believe me, I do.

Yet, without disparaging what you have said - as you have a good sense of this issue, there is a modern trend out there now of trial SSA activity. It is very strange and happens more among women then men. I find this new fad troubling.

 

[Angels_Watchin]

LCMS_No_More:

Yet note it wasn’t changed to say that homosexual persons choose to be same-sex attracted. In fact, the Church says that the psychological genesis is not yet known. If it were a conscious choice, then someone could decide, “Okay, I’m choosing to be straight.” I wish it were that simple, believe me, I do.

Dear LCMS_

I’m wondering where you get the quote “the church says that the psychological genesis is not yet known”?

Key word in your message - “conscious”. You don’t have to be “born with something” to make “sub-conscious” choices. They get planted there by friends, family, self, Satan.

The church calls it a disorder, which implies that it can be treated (to some extent, different for everyone) and the church has given us the organization called Courage to help with that. www.couragerc.org

Can I also recommend a cd from St. Joseph Communications?

http://www.saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=915

It is loaded with Catholic truth, scientific and medical insight.
Now, it’s in your court to go after truth and commit to it.

“I am straight. If it is God’s will, I will to develop close friendships with the opposite gender and eventually, if God desires that I marry, after marriage I will desire intimate relations with my spouse, a member of the opposite gender. Because if it is God’s will I desire it to be my will.” is a good start.

“I want to want to do God’s will.”

Your brain believes what you tell it, if you tell it often enough.

You’re right, I can’t imagine the struggle, but there is help.
Call Courage, get the cd. Begin.

Blessings on your journey, my prayers will be with you from this day till forever,

Angel

 

[mosher]

Angels Watchin:

Dear LCMS_

I’m wondering where you get the quote “the church says that the psychological genesis is not yet known”?

Key word in your message - “conscious”. You don’t have to be “born with something” to make “sub-conscious” choices. They get planted there by friends, family, self, Satan.

The church calls it a disorder, which implies that it can be treated (to some extent, different for everyone) and the church has given us the organization called Courage to help with that. www.couragerc.org

Can I also recommend a cd from St. Joseph Communications?

http://www.saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=915

It is loaded with Catholic truth, scientific and medical insight.
Now, it’s in your court to go after truth and commit to it.

“I am straight. If it is God’s will, I will to develop close friendships with the opposite gender and eventually, if God desires that I marry, after marriage I will desire intimate relations with my spouse, a member of the opposite gender. Because if it is God’s will I desire it to be my will.” is a good start.

“I want to want to do God’s will.”

Your brain believes what you tell it, if you tell it often enough.

You’re right, I can’t imagine the struggle, but there is help.
Call Courage, get the cd. Begin.

Blessings on your journey, my prayers will be with you from this day till forever,

Angel

The quote he cited is straight from the Catechism. His view of SSA is well ordered and is laudable for a person who suffers from SSA. Also, I think that you may be missunderstanding what is meant when the Church uses the term disordered. It is not speaking of a clinical problem per se but a moral problem and to this you are correct that SSA can be overcome I just want to make sure that we are using the same language.

 

[buffalo]

**NOT! ** - This quote is from an un-approved version of the Catechism, published in 1993 (when the USCCB was hav ing a tough time getting an approved English language version they went ahead and printed (a best seller, you may note) an unapproved version that remained quoted CONSTANTLY by homosexual advocates. The imprimatured version had approx 140 changes to it prior to becoming the infallible teaching of the church,which occured in 1997 and was published as 'Second Edition".

The above is NOT the teaching of the church - it has been dramatically changed - the "They do not choose" has been removed entirely and replaced with "This inclination, which is intrinsically disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial."

“They do not choose” could not be approved by the magisterium! It is often translated by many to mean, “It’s not their fault, they were born that way.”

I’d love to know where you got your quote (if it’s online)so it can be corrected to reflect the actual teaching of the church.

The vatican website, up until May of 2005, had this incorrect version on a search for “Catechism”. For 8 YEARS, the vatican left this incorrect info on the official website of the Catholic Church.

Hopefully those people have been removed along with the incorrect version!

Blessings,
Angel

Angel, you are correct. They need to change it. My mistake. I got it from here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

 

[LCMS_No_More]

mosher:

there is a modern trend out there now of trial SSA activity. It is very strange and happens more among women then men. I find this new fad troubling.

It’s only a fad. As Dr. van den Aardweg points out in his book, The Battle for Normality on page 48, “The decisive factor in homosexualty is the fantasy.” In fact, he talks about a small tribe in New Guinea, called the Sambia, where homosexual practice is part of the initiation rite but it very rarely leads to a homosexual orientation or inclination on pages 77-78 where he says:

all/] Sambia boys were taught to have sex with young men, playing at first the passive role, and grown older, contacting younger boys and playing the active part. The rationale for these initiation practices is that the adolescent will acquire the strength of the young men. In their early twenties, they marry. Now, the remarkable thing is that, as marriage approaches, the young men naturally turn to heterosexual fantasies, and after marriage there is no homosexual desire, in spite of the former habit of passive as well as active homosexuality.

Now, I don’t think for a minute that this is a moral or ethical practice. It’s gravely sinful and wicked. The purpose of pointing it out is that “homosexual practice must not be equated to homosexual interests.”

 

[Topher]

LCMS_No_More:

It’s only a fad. As Dr. van den Aardweg points out in his book, The Battle for Normality on page 48, “The decisive factor in homosexualty is the fantasy.” In fact, he talks about a small tribe in New Guinea, called the Sambia, where homosexual practice is part of the initiation rite but it very rarely leads to a homosexual orientation or inclination on pages 77-78 where he says:

Now, I don’t think for a minute that this is a moral or ethical practice. It’s gravely sinful and wicked. The purpose of pointing it out is that “homosexual practice must not be equated to homosexual interests.”

Another Good point LCMS_No_More

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Angels Watchin:

Dear LCMS_

I’m wondering where you get the quote “the church says that the psychological genesis is not yet known”?

CCC Paragraph 2357:
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
Angels Watchin:

Key word in your message - “conscious”. You don’t have to be “born with something” to make “sub-conscious” choices. They get planted there by friends, family, self, Satan.

And a sub-conscious “choice” is no choice at all, it is a reaction to (name removed by moderator)ut received from the conscious mind. The sub-conscious is like the engine room of a ship. It cannot make any decisions, it only obeys orders that it is given and processes data. Generally speaking, most of the honest physchologists who work in this area have come to the conclusion that a young boy (or girl) receives a trauma in early childhood that damages the attachment to the same-sex parent. This leads to a defensive detachment from that same-sex parent in orer to prevent that kind of hurt from happening again. The need for same-sex love from that parent remains unmet and leads to same-sex ambivalence…where there is a need for same-sex love yet a defensive detachment that holds people of the same-sex at arm’s length. This becomes eroticized when puberty sets in because other boys (and later men) are objects of mystery and intrigue. Sexual desire is invariably for that which is different than us, so a man who feels that he’s not a man (he doesn’t identify with his own masculinity), other men will be that “other” until he works through his issues and grows up into full manhood. I’ve come to the conclusion that, essentially, homosexuality is a form of arrested emotional development.
Angels Watchin:

The church calls it a disorder, which implies that it can be treated (to some extent, different for everyone)

Actually, she says that the actions are “intrinsically disordered” and the inclination “objectively disordered.” The Catechism and the CDF document are moral, theological and philosophical in nature, not psychological.
Angels Watchin:

and the church has given us the organization called Courage to help with that. www.couragerc.org

I’m aware of Courage and have attended meetings and plan to continue doing so. However, while it is helpful to have such an organization, I find it frustrating that they only meet twice a month. This year, there have been month long hiatuses in the meeting schedules due to a move in the parish where the meetings take place among other things. Since June, there have only been three meetings. The last meeting was in mid-July and the next meeting is not until September 9th, I believe. That’s a long time between meetings.

At any rate, Courage is not a organization that requires a person change their orientation or even attempt to do so. Courage’s goal is to help persons with same-sex attractions to live in accord with the Church’s teachings on homosexuality (chastity).

Split - Post one of two<<<

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Continued…Post Two of Two<<<

Angels Watchin:

Can I also recommend a cd from St. Joseph Communications?

color=Blue]http://www.saintjoe.com/p/prod_desc.pl?id=915

It is loaded with Catholic truth, scientific and medical insight.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll consider buying the CD. Right now, I have a lot of CD’s I’m going through as well as an extensive reading list. So far, on the topic of homosexuality, I’ve read:

Beyond Gay by David Morrison
Growth into Manhood by Alan Mendiger
The Homosexual Person by Fr. John Harvey, O.S.F.S.
The Battle for Normality by Dr. Gerald J. M. van den Aardweg, Ph.D.
Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexualty by Dr. Joseph Nicolosi

I’m currently working through Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic by Elizabeth R. Moberly.

These books have all given me a LOT of insight into my own struggle as well as understanding of the struggle of other homosexual persons.
Angels Watchin:

Now, it’s in your court to go after truth and commit to it.

“I am straight. If it is God’s will, I will to develop close friendships with the opposite gender and eventually, if God desires that I marry, after marriage I will desire intimate relations with my spouse, a member of the opposite gender. Because if it is God’s will I desire it to be my will.” is a good start.

“I want to want to do God’s will.”

Your brain believes what you tell it, if you tell it often enough.

It’s not close friendships with the opposite gender that are a problem. I have all kinds of women friends and relate to them very well, but none of the same gender. Men, to me, are a great mystery and I have a great deal of trouble relating to other men, let along becoming friends with one, and that’s the problem. I see a man and desire to be like him but loathing at the same time. That’s that same-sex ambivalence at work, you see?
Angels Watchin:

You’re right, I can’t imagine the struggle, but there is help.
Call Courage, get the cd. Begin.

Blessings on your journey, my prayers will be with you from this day till forever

Thanks for your prayers! They are greatly needed and appreciated.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

buffalo:

Angel, you are correct. They need to change it. My mistake. I got it from here:

scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

Funny…I use the same online source and 2358 reads thusly:
“The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

 

[buffalo]

LCMS_No_More:

Funny…I use the same online source and 2358 reads thusly:
“The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.”

I think I found the problem. I will fix it.

 

[mosher]

LCMS_No_More:

It’s only a fad. As Dr. van den Aardweg points out in his book, The Battle for Normality on page 48, “The decisive factor in homosexualty is the fantasy.” In fact, he talks about a small tribe in New Guinea, called the Sambia, where homosexual practice is part of the initiation rite but it very rarely leads to a homosexual orientation or inclination on pages 77-78 where he says:

Now, I don’t think for a minute that this is a moral or ethical practice. It’s gravely sinful and wicked. The purpose of pointing it out is that “homosexual practice must not be equated to homosexual interests.”

Of course I just thought that it would be significant to the discussion to mention.

 

[goofyjim]

So does all this mean one who has ssa, never acts on it, and does his best through prayer and the sacraments while never being free from it completely must shell out money to change? I don’t think someone in this case is causing much harm. At least let them be.

On the other hand we must continue to fight the gay agenda but I do not feel the above case is involved in that. In fact he stands alone condemned by both the active homosexuals on the left and the holier than thous on the right. Sounds like the Christian approach to me.

 

[iserve]

The US Bishops and the Catechism were trying to put some civility into the matter, in order to charge believers to refrain from practices that had inflicted unfair treatment towards homosexuals. To that end, they have succeeded in softening the opinions of people. On the other hand, scripture, the source of our beliefs, calls the behavior “abominable” and every reference to it gives rise to feelings of complete contempt. Now, if there is some way that one can put spin on this to in any way make it okay, I just don’t see how, even though I have no desire to harm anyone, nor to force them out of their opinions. But I cannot see, if the bible refers to this as an abominationsee definition below) Meaning #1: a person who is loathsome or disgusting
Meaning #2: hate coupled with disgust
Synonyms: abhorrence, detestation, execration, loathing, odium
Meaning #3: an action that is vicious or vile; an action that arouses disgust or abhorence

then how on earth can believers be welcoming to anyone but those who would agree? What would be the point of anyone who rejects this definition wanting to be in communion with Catholics knowing that this is a fundamental truth? Homosexual behavior or SSA- both are abominations because they have the common goal sex with a person of the same gender.

 

[carol_marie]

777:

My family would NEVER allow any gay and/or lesbian in their house, much less near them in the church pews.

What would your family do - post a sign or screen them when they come to the door?

How sad for your church. MY church is a place that welcomes sinners. Just like my Savior did.

 

[carol_marie]

contemplative:

Why am I feeling like we have the same two hands starting these homosexual threads everyday???..It seems like the same two hands typing with a different puppet head ( poster name) for each new homosexual thread.

We already of have plenty of threads like this…

I think it is so unbelievably rude to tell a new poster - one who just joined on this day that she is a “puppet head” because she is asking a question that has been asked before. How would SHE know that? And then to continue to post telling her to “do a search” and when she says she’s not wanting to do that you make yet ANOTHER snide remark. (“Last time I checked the search feature worked” - your post #11) Then when she tries to explain herself you snip: OFF TOPIC - STICK TO THE TOPIC… Why should she? You just got done telling her that the whole topic has been done before - in other words, this is a big waste of our time.

You know what… if you find a question repetitive and annoying, just skip it. Let someone else have a crack at it. But please don’t treat new posters this way. This was her first day posting… way to be welcoming.

 

[big_guy144]

tcay584:

Why do you feel a need for such admittance? It’s always puzzled me why people do that. As a heterosexual myself, I find it rather offensive.
Now…see how annoying that is?

AGREED!

Adulterers, liars, fornicators, etc… don’t need to be bragging about being an adulterer, liar, or fornicator, so why do homosexuals feel the need to tell the world of their sin?

Can you imagine someone bragging about being a murderer or child molestor? We are not talking about race or gender, we are talking about SIN.

 

[rayne89]

carol marie:

I think it is so unbelievably rude to tell a new poster - one who just joined on this day that she is a “puppet head” because she is asking a question that has been asked before. How would SHE know that? And then to continue to post telling her to “do a search” and when she says she’s not wanting to do that you make yet ANOTHER snide remark. (“Last time I checked the search feature worked” - your post #11) Then when she tries to explain herself you snip: OFF TOPIC - STICK TO THE TOPIC… Why should she? You just got done telling her that the whole topic has been done before - in other words, this is a big waste of our time.

You know what… if you find a question repetitive and annoying, just skip it. Let someone else have a crack at it. But please don’t treat new posters this way. This was her first day posting… way to be welcoming.

I completely agree. What a wonder example of Christian charity -not.

 

[CatQuilt]

rayne89:

I completely agree. What a wonder example of Christian charity -not.

I agree!

Thos of us living in Massachusetts are on the front lines of the Culture War. Do you understand what’s going on here? We have ‘gay marriage’. We have the New York Times and the Boston Globe telling us every day how wonderful gay families are. We have elementary school systems sneaking books about ‘all kinds of families’ into children’s hands. We have 8th grade teachers who feel appropriate to teach kids how lesbians have sex. We have GLSEN teaching high school students explicit sex acts under the category of AIDS awareness.

I’m not sure why this person is researching Catholics’ views on homosexuality. But telling them that you’re sick of gay threads is not a suitable response.

 

[goofyjim]

Is anyone with same-sex attraction really doing their best to pray away those temptations? This is what Catholics should be doing. Even if they only continue to be a thorn in the flesh you can still overcome the inner desires by establishing a life of prayer and entrusting yourself to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of His Mother.:bowdown2: