Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

[JackQ]

My religion has nothing to do with the concept of “free” health care. If people want to vote themselves a form of socialist medicine they will need to figure out who and what will pay for it. The USA is broke…we have overspent and are on the edge of economic disaster. Europe demanded a whole list of “free” benefits,including health care. Is it too much trouble to examine what happened, and is happening to their economy? Americans have fallen into this entitlement trap set for them by politicians and union types and seemingly will not get out of it.

Oh, but it does. Jesus provided free health care and we are obligated to follow him. I’m not saying that the government is necessarily the best way to go, and you may legitimately disagree with that kind of solution. But your religion has everything to do with the concept of free health care in that Jesus’ two main activities were preaching the gospel and healing the sick, and you are called to follow him.

 

[dmelosi]

I do, and I if you think I am so dumb as to walk into this trap with somebody who has just called me “Married to my party” when I do not have a party, you have one more screw loose then I already thought. Clinton would have done the same thing and so would most other Democrats. Your trying to use this to turn Obama into the devil is not going to work on me.

The fact is that Obama did argue it. I am not sure how much closer to evil a person could get than arguing that it is ok to allow to withhold medical care and allow the baby to die.

 

[JackQ]

My friend 38 years old just died from an infected gall bladder, she was getting medicated for it for years but because she was part of the working poor she didn’t qualify for Medicaid or any other programs ,her husband could only work sporadically and they had three children She couldn.t afford the surgery .So three kids are left woth no mother A father is left bereft Don’t tell me the outfall from this will not impact the taxpayers either by welfare payments or future resentment and disgust of this family who live in a country supposed to be the best in the world but thats only if you are fortunate enough to have good health and money in the bank.Do you ever wonder that a lot of petty crime is commited by people who have been left destitute by paying large medical bills.So what would you do if your kids were hungry and every penny you earned had to go to pay for your families medical needs.Well I am a very moral person but if my kids were hungry I would steal. So many good people end up in jail or in the courts precisely beacause they were desperate not because the stole for drugs or booze but to eat ,whose taxes pay for the jails and child welfare officers .When People are treated as valuable human beings they tend to behave the same way.As far as the taxes go you either pay for the healthcare for all or you pay the consequences.

Excellent post.

 

[cargau]

MoM2,

I have no doubt that you are a caring person trying to live the Gospel. The fact is, I don’t want to see anyone go without proper health care. On that we agree.

Your presumption that O care is the only solution to the social problem that health care is not evenly distributed is where we seem to part ways.

Can we all take a breath and see if there are more rational ways of dealing with health care besides a government sponsored albatross that actually raises health care costs and allows government to intrude in our private lives thus making us dependent on the government. It is not that we don’t want to provide for our neighbor, it is just that O care is not in the best interests of our country or its people.

Health care costs have soared past normal inflation rates for many years. Why? What is the driving force causing health care to become unaffordable. Honestly working on the solutions to the issues that drive costs up seems to be the most humane way of ensuring that health care is available to everyone.

 

[Tenofovir]

And if one cannot afford to pay for it, they still receive care. You DO know that, right?

Peace

Tim

This is a point of contention. Is there free health care in the US?
I know emergency rooms are free? But chronic care? Is that free?

Suppose you live in a trailer, sweep streets for a living, and have diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure. Will you be able to see a doc on a regular basis, obtain relevant tests (xrays, blood tests, ECGs) and receive drugs, insulin and needles?

Will you get free screening such as Pap smears for women and colonoscopies for older adults?

Suppose you develop colon cancer. Will you receive surgery and chemotherapy, as well as follow up?

I’m just curious how your health system works. If the answer is YES I don’t think there is any issue here. You do have free health care already.

 

[JackQ]

Maybe I assumed wrong, but I was assuming that the original poster was talking about the universal health care law that the most pro abortion president ever put in place.

Obama’s health care reform is not universal health care.

 

[dmelosi]

Obama’s health care reform is not universal health care.

What do you call it?

 

[Brendan]

Just because i live among the rich does not mean that i am rich; and just because i am not a Tanzanian does not mean that i can practically afford to give much to anyone when you place my needs in the context of minimum wage and the high cost of living in London.

But if you make over £400 a year, you are rich by Tanzanian standards. I suppose you live in a flat with multiple rooms, a kitchen with a stove, perhaps even a refrigerator. Even heat for the cooler weather. I expect the roof there is something other than straw. And electricity too I suppose.

I do suppose that paying for all those luxuries does cost alot. Because that is what they are to the people I work with. They, pretty much to a man, live in one room mud brick huts with straw roofs. If they have a wooden door instead of just a sheet over the doorframe, they are middle class.

You give according to what you have. .

So, in other words, it takes up a lot of your income to live with the luxuries you have become accustomed to and in the neighborhood you desire to live it.

But yet you don’t expect to see ‘rich people’ in Heaven because they don’t give enough to meet your standards?

I suppose those so called ‘rich people’ you refer to could make the same claims you do, about the cost of living in the neighborhoods they choose to live in, and the luxuries they have become accustomed to. Beverly Hills is a pretty expensive place, and BMW’s aren’t getting any cheaper you know

What would you think of a Tanzanian who didn’t expect to see YOU in Heaven because they heard about the life YOU live and didn’t think you gave enought to help THEM?

As far as local poverty is concerned, I live in Detroit, which has a lot of poverty, especially with the near collaspe of the auto industry. But I can point to the worst neighborhoods in Detroit and the poorest people there, and still find entire villages of Tanzanias who would gladly trade places with them.

The government has to tax so that 2.49 million unemployed people do not become homeless and starve to death.

Not true, that is what the Church is for.

 

[Speedypizza]

The fact is that Obama did argue it. I am not sure how much closer to evil a person could get than arguing that it is ok to allow to withhold medical care and allow the baby to die.

:clapping: Thanks for once again proving my point that the far right in this country cannot think for themselves, and the only way they can debate is to continue to try to pound home the same issues over and over again while not looking at any other sides of the issue.

 

[dmelosi]

:clapping: Thanks for once again proving my point that the far right in this country cannot think for themselves, and the only way they can debate is to continue to try to pound home the same issues over and over again while not looking at any other sides of the issue.

Why would you think I am far right? Because I believe that abortion is more evil than you?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

I don’t want a C student operating on me.

While the grade of C is a passing grade for undergraduate studies it is not in graduate studies.

Graduate studies require at least a B to be passing.

So, contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a doctor being a C student.

 

[Speedypizza]

Why would you think I am far right? Because I believe that abortion is more evil than you?

No, because you make that very statement. I have not said one thing about Abortion yet. Not one word about it. If you would read my other replies on this issue, you will see that I am very strongly pro-life. I am just smart enough to understand that politics is a very complex game, and that trying to paint somebody as the Devil because of one issue which although I disagree with him about, understand why he came out the way he did.

Many on the far left were very worried that if this law were passed, it would be used as a tool to try to outlaw more and more abortions. Obama was towing the party line, one can say he was cowardly for it, but I would hardly call it evil.

 

[Cristiano]

This is just another weak attempt at closing your eyes to the issue being debated. Sorry, it doesn’t fade me in the slightest

Until now you have not been debating any issue, you have just being spewing negative judgements and ad hominem attacks with no argumentation at all. A debate implies postulates, thesis, and demonstration. After that if your logic is correct you have made an argument and if you logic is false you have not made one. You also must consider that if your assumptions are wrong your argument might be correct but the final conclusion still might not be real.

 

[dmelosi]

No, because you make that very statement. I have not said one thing about Abortion yet. Not one word about it. If you would read my other replies on this issue, you will see that I am very strongly pro-life. I am just smart enough to understand that politics is a very complex game, and that trying to paint somebody as the Devil because of one issue which although I disagree with him about, understand why he came out the way he did.

Many on the far left were very worried that if this law were passed, it would be used as a tool to try to outlaw more and more abortions. Obama was towing the party line, one can say he was cowardly for it, but I would hardly call it evil.

The thing you could say about me that would be true is that I am against killing the most innocent. You are speaking volumes about your views on abortion by excusing the political views on abortion. Read the transcripts of his argument and tell me it is not evil.

 

[Speedypizza]

The thing you could say about me that would be true is that I am against killing the most innocent. You are speaking volumes about your views on abortion by excusing the political views on abortion. Read the transcripts of his argument and tell me it is not evil.

:banghead:

 

[JackQ]

What do you call it?

I call it health care reform. It’s not going to cover everybody even when it is fully implemented. It provides, hopefully, for lower cost health insurance sold via state-run health insurance exchanges, with supplementary assistance for those with low incomes. It also has the requirement that people buy insurance, which I predict is not going to pass constitutional muster. The reason why it won’t cover everybody is that some will be able to opt-out because they won’t be able to find any insurance that will cover them at an affordable rate, and, apparently, available subsidies won’t be able to cover it either.

I think it has some good features, like barring pre-existing condition exclusions. I also like that it will actually reduce the deficit, according to the CBO. It doesn’t really fund abortions, because no federal funds are allowed for that, it just doesn’t prohibit participating insurance companies from offering it to those who want to pay for it themselves, and that is no different than previous law.

Honestly, I don’t know if it will ultimately make health insurance cheaper. I think Single-Payer (which is not socialized medicine) would work better than Obama’s plan for bringing healthcare costs down because healthcare providers would have to compete for one purchaser, a kind of monopoly in reverse. Also, it would help American businesses, who, while they provide health insurance to their employees as a cost of doing business, have to compete with foreign companies who have that cost carried by their governments. Plus it would be more humane, because it would cover every citizen. Cheaper, better, and would help American business: I’ll never understand why people are against it, except that maybe they mistake it for national health like they have in the United Kingdom. But this is all talk, because the health insurers have purchased enough members of Congress to ensure it never happens. Instead we got Obama’s plan, under which everyone is required to purchase their product. Nice work if you can get it.

 

[JimG]

As has already been mentioned, nothing is free. Somebody is paying for it. And healthcare workers are entitled to a living wage. So the question becomes, how much can a nation’s citizens afford to pay in taxes, and for how much health care? No health care system can possibly pay for every conceivable treatment. The other consideration which ought to be considered, but usually isn’t, is that the U.S., if that’s what we’re talking about, already spends $4 billion more each day than it takes in, and Medicare and Social Security are not sustainable for the future unless they are changed.

At what point do we choose between free health care and bankruptcy?

And who are the 1% in health care? Here is the answer.

 

[JimG]

Oh, but it does. Jesus provided free health care and we are obligated to follow him. I’m not saying that the government is necessarily the best way to go, and you may legitimately disagree with that kind of solution. But your religion has everything to do with the concept of free health care in that Jesus’ two main activities were preaching the gospel and healing the sick, and you are called to follow him.

Interesting that Jesus did not take the time to provide free healing to every person in Galilee or Judea or all of Palestine. He could have devoted all his time to providing free health care, yet did not. And when he sent for the disciples, he didn’t instruct them to go therefore and heal all nations. His mission may have been somewhat different than simply providing for our health care needs.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Until now you have not been debating any issue, you have just being spewing negative judgements and ad hominem attacks with no argumentation at all.

Such may seem true to a person that’s running away from the truth

 

[pismopal]

Taxation is a necessity, when given capitalism.

How true! There is however a limit to fair taxation and this government reached that limit long ago. They are spending us into oblivion and trying to tax their way out of it…just like George III. Hey…it is our future we are talking about.