Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

[dmelosi]

So let me see if I follow you here, you are saying that a person who takes bribes and lies about it is somehow BETTER then a person who takes bribes and admits it?

There goes that twisting again. Let me try to explain it a little better.

I said that a party who has in their party platform that they are pro abortion is for killing the most innocent human beings.

Would you say that a party that helps to spread the news that it is ok to kill a human being is better or worse than one that says it is not ok to kill a human being.

Let’s make it simple and get to the basics, I will add to the question and ask you to answer only on killing innocent lives. Don’t even consider the party differences, but ONLY on the killing question.

 

[Speedypizza]

There goes that twisting again. Let me try to explain it a little better.

I said that a party who has in their party platform that they are pro abortion is for killing the most innocent human beings.

Would you say that a party that helps to spread the news that it is ok to kill a human being is better or worse than one that says it is not ok to kill a human being.

Let’s make it simple and get to the basics, I will add to the question and ask you to answer only on killing innocent lives. Don’t even consider the party differences, but ONLY on the killing question.

While this party has the same blood of the same children on their hands, not on your life!

 

[Sacred_Heart_1]

Why would any Catholic be Against Free Health Care?

Am i the only Catholic that finds this idea Morally Embarrassing?

This is the deal with me and free health care, which I receive through medicare and medicaid. I’m a SchizoAffective person and my life depends on the healthcare I receive since I am unable to work due to my disability.

This is the choice that Americans can have for my situation. They can either pay the taxes for medicare and medicaid to keep me out of a state institution or they can bleed from their ears to keep me in a state institution.

These are my costs for medicare and medicaid as of now. It costs roughly 1200 for medicaid per year. It costs 60 for every 3 months in doctors visits to prescribe me my meds. It costs roughly 350 for my meds every month throughout the year. It costs a couple hundred dollars in blood tests, twice a year. That is about what it costs in medical expenses (medicare/medicaid) for me, specifically, as a SchizoAffective person.

Now if I wasn’t to receive free medical insurance/care this is what it would cost for a state hospital. About $20,000 a month to stay in a state hospital. That’s not including every expense.

Now giving me free medical insurance saves you money. And that’s not just for my condition, that applies to the whole system. It is a fact. It costs less money to keep people out of hospitals than it does to put them in.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Go to a communist state if you want it this way.

I DO NOT want to pay for someone else to abort children. You must not think abortion is that big of a deal if you can’t understand that.

I don’t want to pay for abortion either. That does not change the fact that no health care or a lack of sufficient health care is wrong.

 

[exoflare]

Why would any Catholic be Against Free Health Care?

You get what you pay for.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

You get what you pay for.

Yep, you really do.

 

[JackQ]

When I go through threads like this, it is interesting to see how both of the major political parties in the U.S. go against Catholic Social Teaching in their own way. It would be interesting to see if a Catholic Political Party could be formed embodying all of Catholic Social Teaching. Alas, I am afraid that there would only be a tiny minority that accepted all of it. But this might be a problem only because many Catholics feel that they need to defend their own political party, and so they justify some of the horrible things their party stands for, first in their own minds, then to others in argument. Politics is the true religion of Satan.

 

[pismopal]

Maybe the term “health care” scares you, but Jesus was indeed healing the sick, and you will notice the relationship between the words “heal” and “health.” And his healing ministry wasn’t part of a PR campaign; indeed, he often told those he healed not to tell anyone about it. It was an expression of his compassion.

I don’t know why you bring in the government, since I didn’t mention that in the post you’re responding to, and Jesus wasn’t part of the government. I’m talking about our collective responsibility as Catholics. It’s fine if you don’t like the government answer to health care issues, but not so fine if you think it’s an issue that you can safely ignore. If you think that we the Church have no obligation to heal the sick then it is you who are mistaken.

Nothing scares me my friend…except perhaps the idea that doing good works is voting for politicians who think that good works are robbing peter to bribe Paul. Health is an issue for all of us and differing in how best to obtain it is a subject for discussion. I repeat…the government is not charitable…but certainly Catholics are. You preach to the choir I think.

 

[BellsMom]

Wow, you really know how to defend your position, don’t you.

I think you need to take a step back from that kind of rhetoric. You also need to learn some facts about the lack of availability of healthcare. You do know that there is healthcare available to everyone, right? And if one cannot afford to pay for it, they still receive care. You DO know that, right?

Peace

Tim

My best friend is has been an ER nurse at Detroit Receiving Hospital for many years. They provide services to a staggering number of uninsured people from the city. We have talked about this issue on many occasions.

Uninsured working poor are way less likely to get medical care when they need it (ie, preventive) because they understand that awful chest cold they’ve had for a month or numbness and tingling in one of their legs will end up costing them thousands of dollars they don’t have. Sure you get the service, then you get the bill. If you are already treading water, you will probably end up in bankruptcy. 60% of bankruptcys in America are due to medical bills.

As someone who was uninsured for many years I can attest that I would go without health care out of fear for how I would pay. I know from my best friend that I was not alone either. Because of this, many treatable conditions are not even diagnosed until a lot of expensive and permanent damage has been done. While uninsured I broke my ankle. After a snowball of bad luck, I had 6 surgeries, two weeks in the hospital and about $250,000 worth of medical bills. After loosing every penny of savings I had, the city health care program offered to bargain down my bill to $170,000 which I would be required to pay back to them in monthly installments out of my barely subsistence level pay check over the next however many years it took.

When you say “Do you know there is health care available to everyone right?” You should remember to add that it will cost them about a $1,000 for the ER doc to tell them their arm is just sprained and then another $300 for the nice ace bandage they send them home with.

I hope everyone fortunate enough to have health care thinks about that the next time you get to pay a $15 copay to get your yearly checkup.

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

I don’t want to pay for abortion either. That does not change the fact that no health care or a lack of sufficient health care is wrong.

When is there a lack of sufficient health care? It’s like any other commodity. You pay for services. If you can’t pay, you can apply for financial assistance, or financing options. It’s not free. Those doctors/nurses don’t go to school for free.

 

[Speedypizza]

When I go through threads like this, it is interesting to see how both of the major political parties in the U.S. go against Catholic Social Teaching in their own way. It would be interesting to see if a Catholic Political Party could be formed embodying all of Catholic Social Teaching. Alas, I am afraid that there would only be a tiny minority that accepted all of it. But this might be a problem only because many Catholics feel that they need to defend their own political party, and so they justify some of the horrible things their party stands for, first in their own minds, then to others in argument. Politics is the true religion of Satan.

It will never happen, the Neo-cons on here are against most of the Churches teachings. The Pope is Anti-death penalty, Neo’s are for it, The Pope says healthcare is a right, Neo’s are against universal health care. The Church teaches that we are initialed to a livable wage, Neo’s are against it as well. About the only issue where they agree with the Church is on abortion, however there only solution for this is to vote Republican. Even if you know that the Republicans are not going to do anything to stop it, they still try to demand that we all vote with them.

 

[Al_Moritz]

About the only issue where they agree with the Church is on abortion, however there only solution for this is to vote Republican. Even if you know that the Republicans are not going to do anything to stop it, they still try to demand that we all vote with them.

Not just that, we’ll go straight to hell if we don’t. I was once advised on this board, by more than one person no less, to urgently seek reconcilation with God in confession for voting Obama. :banghead: Well, I’ll do that for my real sins, don’t worry.

With such fundamentalists here and probably everywhere, how can you be surprised that even intelligent Catholics fall like suckers for the Republican Party, and the Party elders just laugh their asses off until the next election where they might win?

 

[Al_Moritz]

My best friend is has been an ER nurse at Detroit Receiving Hospital for many years. They provide services to a staggering number of uninsured people from the city. We have talked about this issue on many occasions.

Uninsured working poor are way less likely to get medical care when they need it (ie, preventive) because they understand that awful chest cold they’ve had for a month or numbness and tingling in one of their legs will end up costing them thousands of dollars they don’t have. Sure you get the service, then you get the bill. If you are already treading water, you will probably end up in bankruptcy. 60% of bankruptcys in America are due to medical bills.

As someone who was uninsured for many years I can attest that I would go without health care out of fear for how I would pay. I know from my best friend that I was not alone either. Because of this, many treatable conditions are not even diagnosed until a lot of expensive and permanent damage has been done. While uninsured I broke my ankle. After a snowball of bad luck, I had 6 surgeries, two weeks in the hospital and about $250,000 worth of medical bills. After loosing every penny of savings I had, the city health care program offered to bargain down my bill to $170,000 which I would be required to pay back to them in monthly installments out of my barely subsistence level pay check over the next however many years it took.

When you say “Do you know there is health care available to everyone right?” You should remember to add that it will cost them about a $1,000 for the ER doc to tell them their arm is just sprained and then another $300 for the nice ace bandage they send them home with.

I hope everyone fortunate enough to have health care thinks about that the next time you get to pay a $15 copay to get your yearly checkup.

Thank you so much for posting this testimony. I am sorry to hear what you had to go through yourself.

I hope this post of yours will be an eyeopener, at least for some.

 

[Orogeny]

This is a point of contention. Is there free health care in the US?
I know emergency rooms are free? But chronic care? Is that free?

Nothing is free. Low income people can get healthcare at either no cost or for a pro-rated amount based on their income. But it is all paid for by someone.

Suppose you live in a trailer, sweep streets for a living, and have diabetes, high cholesterol and high blood pressure. Will you be able to see a doc on a regular basis, obtain relevant tests (xrays, blood tests, ECGs) and receive drugs, insulin and needles?

Yes.

Generally, if you are younger than 65, you have Medicaid to help. Medicaid will pay for all or part of one’s health care and is means tested.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicaid

If one is over 65, Medicare kicks in. Medicare is a federally funded insurance program that is not means tested. All one has to do is meet the age requirement. Medicare pays 80% of healthcare costs. Many Medicare recipients also purchase supplementary insurance to cover the remaining 20%.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

Will you get free screening such as Pap smears for women and colonoscopies for older adults?

Yes.

Suppose you develop colon cancer. Will you receive surgery and chemotherapy, as well as follow up?

Yes.

To give you an idea of how it works in the county I live in, here is a link to the hospital district’s patient services summary for 2011.

hchdonline.com/patient/onecard/goldcard.htm
hchdonline.com/about/census.htm

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

While the grade of C is a passing grade for undergraduate studies it is not in graduate studies.

Graduate studies require at least a B to be passing.

So, contrary to popular belief, there is no such thing as a doctor being a C student.

As the father of a soon to be medical student, I understand that. I was replying to a poster who was complaining that only smart people get the chance to become doctors.

Peace

Tim

 

[MindOverMatter2]

When is there a lack of sufficient health care? It’s like any other commodity. You pay for services. If you can’t pay, you can apply for financial assistance, or financing options. It’s not free. Those doctors/nurses don’t go to school for free.

You can’t pay, die. Good man.

 

[Orogeny]

My best friend is has been an ER nurse at Detroit Receiving Hospital for many years. They provide services to a staggering number of uninsured people from the city. We have talked about this issue on many occasions.

My brother was an ER doctor and he would agree with that.

Uninsured working poor are way less likely to get medical care when they need it (ie, preventive) because they understand that awful chest cold they’ve had for a month or numbness and tingling in one of their legs will end up costing them thousands of dollars they don’t have. Sure you get the service, then you get the bill. If you are already treading water, you will probably end up in bankruptcy. 60% of bankruptcys in America are due to medical bills.

I don’t understand this mentality, and perhaps that is part of the problem in this country. We seem to have groups of people who have different ideas as to what their health is worth. If I didn’t have insurance but needed medical treatment, I would get the care. If I didn’t have insurance and didn’t have much money, I would approach the public health agency where I live to get as much assistance as I could. I would then deal with the remaining cost as best as I could and if that means bankruptcy, then so be it.

As someone who was uninsured for many years I can attest that I would go without health care out of fear for how I would pay. I know from my best friend that I was not alone either. Because of this, many treatable conditions are not even diagnosed until a lot of expensive and permanent damage has been done. While uninsured I broke my ankle. After a snowball of bad luck, I had 6 surgeries, two weeks in the hospital and about $250,000 worth of medical bills. After loosing every penny of savings I had, the city health care program offered to bargain down my bill to $170,000 which I would be required to pay back to them in monthly installments out of my barely subsistence level pay check over the next however many years it took.

How did your fear of going to a doctor for preventative care cause you to break your ankle? Is there a problem with declaring bankruptcy?

When you say “Do you know there is health care available to everyone right?” You should remember to add that it will cost them about a $1,000 for the ER doc to tell them their arm is just sprained and then another $300 for the nice ace bandage they send them home with.

Depends on where they go. Public clinics work with people on fees.

I hope everyone fortunate enough to have health care thinks about that the next time you get to pay a $15 copay to get your yearly checkup.

What a snarky thing to say. It is none of your business, but I pay a lot of money every pay period for my “$15 copay”. That $1,500 that you mentioned for an ER visit would just about pay for my monthly premium. AND I pay taxes that go to pay for the health care of those who can’t afford it.

Peace

Tim

 

[Al_Moritz]

You can’t pay, die. Good man.

Indeed, the Neo-Con Catholics here are a moral embarrassment, as your thread title already anticipated.

 

[Cristiano]

Indeed, the Neo-Con Catholics here are a moral embarrassment, as your thread title already anticipated.

Isn’t it immoral that most of the European and American Catholics eat much more and much better than the people in the rest of the world while a lot of people are starving? How can they justify such an aberration instead of accepting the same standard of living and sending the money that would covers the difference to poor people. How many western non Neo-Con Catholics are guilty of that behavior? Aren’t they a moral embarrassment?

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Isn’t it immoral that most of the European and American Catholics eat much more and much better than the people in the rest of the world while a lot of people are starving? How can they justify such an aberration instead of accepting the same standard of living and sending the money that would covers the difference to poor people. How many western non Neo-Con Catholics are guilty of that behavior? Aren’t they a moral embarrassment?

It would be immoral if you didn’t contribute to the needs of others.

To eat healthy is good; for to eat means that you care about your well-being and health. But to eat healthy while ignoring the health of others and your moral duty to share with those that don’t have, is evil. This doesn’t require you to stop eating healthy; it just requires you to contribute to other peoples well being in so far as that is possible and practical. That might mean giving up luxuries or spending less on yourself. Yes; it will mean sacrifice. This is quite simply the law of love. Anything else is to steal from God.

Surely, you being a Catholic, won’t mind some of your taxes going over seas to poor developing countries do you?