T
tonyrey
Guest
That is the basic principle at stake. All other factors are irrelevant…
- Status
That is the basic principle at stake. All other factors are irrelevant…
A
anthony022071
Guest
The people who use that figure also don’t consider the fact that many people don’t even want health insurance (such as unmarried people in their 20’s) and could afford it if they did,and that health insurance does not guarantee good treatment,but only that the hospital will get paid.
M
Monte_RCMS
Guest
Why does the government prohibit me from adding medical insurance to my “umbrella policy” and why does the government prohibit me from buying layers of medical insurance … with high deductibles to protect me from those bankruptcy potential cases.
Layered insurance is dirt cheap.
And it would totally protect people from bankruptcy.
And it is available for everything else.
But not for medical insurance.
Layered insurance is dirt cheap.
And it would totally protect people from bankruptcy.
And it is available for everything else.
But not for medical insurance.
R
ReConverted
Guest
AMEN to that!
Who will we stand before on the day of Judgment? The Founding Fathers or Jesus Christ?!? Do you think the “But I pay for it!” or “It’s Socialism!” canards will matter to our Lord?
All this “It’s a violation of the Constitution” chatter is a disgrace to Our Lord. The Constitution is a fantastic document, but IF that document DOES forbid universal health care, then I say to Hell with the Constitution if it means that people are dying from lack of health care…and they ARE dying.
“Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel.”
Matthew 23:24 (Douay Rheims Bible)
My salvation isn’t conditional on “Traditional values” rhetoric or Constitutional arguments. It’s based on my love and obedience to Our Blessed Lord.
PS: Seems like some of y’all need to be reminded that the current President of the United States of America is a Constitutional scholar.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1004736.htm
D
dmelosi
Guest
Does being a constitutional scholar make it ok that he is so pro abortion? Have you watched the video where he argues the infants born alive act?AMEN to that!
Who will we stand before on the day of Judgment? The Founding Fathers or Jesus Christ?!? Do you think the “But I pay for it!” or “It’s Socialism!” canards will matter to our Lord?
All this “It’s a violation of the Constitution” chatter is a disgrace to Our Lord. The Constitution is a fantastic document, but IF that document DOES forbid universal health care, then I say to Hell with the Constitution if it means that people are dying from lack of health care…and they ARE dying.
“Blind guides, who strain out a gnat, and swallow a camel.”
Matthew 23:24 (Douay Rheims Bible)
My salvation isn’t conditional on “Traditional values” rhetoric or Constitutional arguments. It’s based on my love and obedience to Our Blessed Lord.
PS: Seems like some of y’all need to be reminded that the current President of the United States of America is a Constitutional scholar.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1004736.htm
Don’t you think the violation of life to all of these unborn human beings matters?
I wonder when all of these democrat Catholics (the ones that are not actively involved in changing their party’s aggressive pro death stance) will realize the harm they are doing to these most innocent because of blind support to their party.
G
Gaber
Guest
I’m new to the thread, so sorry if this has been covered: While nothing is literally “free” (TANSTASAFL) not only is it morally embarassing, it is financially currupt. In this Country, according to graphs in NatGeo and other places, we pay twice as much in total on average than the next nearest country for health care. Since not all pay for it, it means that we pay about 3>4 times as much. And our life expectancy and infant mortality are respectively declining and increasing, compared to other countries.
Health care CEO’s make obscene amounts, equaling sometimes a month’s salary for a well paid person in another field in one hour! That is before bonuses. The CEO of the world’s largest health care system makes about $250,000/yr. And that, by the way, is the level at which it has been shown that additional income doesn’t really add in any substantial way to happiness. So yes, this is a Country allegedly founded on Christian principles, when it is the onlyu developed Nation with exclusively private health care? Oh, except for Congress.
D
dmelosi
Guest
Isn’t it even more morally embarassing that the most innocent lives are disregarded?
Isn’t it morally embarassing to not even mention the anti Catholic laws in this law when discussing it here?
M
MotoCatholic
Guest
I have to admit I have not been involved with the evolution of this post. But to me the bottom line is that the healthcare plan as proposed by the President and passed by congress is anything but free. This is a fundamental point that can not be exaggerated or glossed over. It will further bankrupt the country, and there’s no possibilty that it won’t.
As a Catholic and Christian and person that cares about the welfare of everyone, I actually agree that some form of universal healthcare would be fantastic. Unfortunately government implemention and management of anything with the incomprehensible scale of national healthcare is going to be a disaster - both financially and in terms of quality. Just look at any other large federal “public service” program - any one of them - they’re all insolvent, they’re all bankrupt. They collectively add 60-70 trillion dollars of unfunded liability or debt to the actual 15-point-something trillion in “on the books” debt that we already have. Can anyone truly comprehend that fact?
I have relatives that live in two different countries that each have some form of socialized medicine. There are some positives, but there are tremendous negatives. And it’s certainly not free. Also, they are significantly smaller than the monster that will be American health care. American health care will dwarf all of our other federal programs that are insolvent - and we’re supposed to believe that somehow the government will get it right this time?
I’m not sure what the answer is. I know it is not government run healthcare.
Peace and Love!
As a Catholic and Christian and person that cares about the welfare of everyone, I actually agree that some form of universal healthcare would be fantastic. Unfortunately government implemention and management of anything with the incomprehensible scale of national healthcare is going to be a disaster - both financially and in terms of quality. Just look at any other large federal “public service” program - any one of them - they’re all insolvent, they’re all bankrupt. They collectively add 60-70 trillion dollars of unfunded liability or debt to the actual 15-point-something trillion in “on the books” debt that we already have. Can anyone truly comprehend that fact?
I have relatives that live in two different countries that each have some form of socialized medicine. There are some positives, but there are tremendous negatives. And it’s certainly not free. Also, they are significantly smaller than the monster that will be American health care. American health care will dwarf all of our other federal programs that are insolvent - and we’re supposed to believe that somehow the government will get it right this time?
I’m not sure what the answer is. I know it is not government run healthcare.
Peace and Love!
G
Gaber
Guest
Inocent lives may be being disregarded, but what might be happening is that the few who are “freeloaders” on the system are used as an excuse to cut spending. Of course, the freeloading members of Congress and corporations are never mentioned in these arguments. As for “anti=Catholic” laws. those are not "anti-Catholic save that they are percieved that way by Catholics who think that the government needs to be an exact reflection of one particular religions theology. Those las are “anti-Catholic” in a sense similar to someone claiming that a comment on their behavior on the grounds of civility is a racially motivated act. It is not necessarily, and neither are laws percieved by the pious as "anti-Catholic necessarily so, they are only the business of government being conducted as failry as possible in a larger context, your particular sensibiliteis not withstanding, even if you think a God which doesn’t take side takes yours.
and
Nothing is free. Nothing. Ever. And, if both government and private enterprise are in the same business, there will be conflict and increased expense. And while programs may be in finscal trouble, that is more the fault of misaplication of Adam Smithian ideas and of greed than of greed than of inherent problems in the idea of social justice. There is, reallly, enough ways ans means to get it done. We just ultimately don’t want to. And therein is the problem.
D
dmelosi
Guest
Do you believe that God would favor a government taking the life of these so many most innocent human beings?
M
MotoCatholic
Guest
Gaber,
I hear you, I really do. I’m no die-hard fan of insurance companies. I’d love for our governments to be altruistic, act with honor and service for the public good, and have even a first-grade level of economic literacy. I hate that our governments usually and unfortunately do not act this way. I hate that there are certain economic realities, but there are.
I agree that “we just don’t want to.” But I would argue that is simply because there is no national will to do this. Although I fully understand there are some powerful lobbying interests invlolved here. For the vast majority of people, the private insurance system is working well, with the omnipresent cadre of public safety nets that are already available. I believe the people that argue there are far, far fewer “legal” residents that find themselves with no insurance, and unable to find public help, than advertised in the media. My family has lived on both sides of this fence, and honestly have had some ups and downs with our various insurance companies over the years. 99% of the time, it works seamlessly. When we needed public help, we got it.
While I usually shy away from comspiratorial talk, I can’t help but be pursuaded by arguments that this is nothing more than the “ultimate power grab” to permanently shift the dynamic of government dependence towards the democrats. I see this as being alomost completely antithetical to social justice. And I’m completely for social justice, just not as practiced by the coddling of dependancy.
I know, I sound mean-spirited. That’s not what I intend. And I do pray that we can figure this out for everyone. God Bless
Moto
I hear you, I really do. I’m no die-hard fan of insurance companies. I’d love for our governments to be altruistic, act with honor and service for the public good, and have even a first-grade level of economic literacy. I hate that our governments usually and unfortunately do not act this way. I hate that there are certain economic realities, but there are.
I agree that “we just don’t want to.” But I would argue that is simply because there is no national will to do this. Although I fully understand there are some powerful lobbying interests invlolved here. For the vast majority of people, the private insurance system is working well, with the omnipresent cadre of public safety nets that are already available. I believe the people that argue there are far, far fewer “legal” residents that find themselves with no insurance, and unable to find public help, than advertised in the media. My family has lived on both sides of this fence, and honestly have had some ups and downs with our various insurance companies over the years. 99% of the time, it works seamlessly. When we needed public help, we got it.
While I usually shy away from comspiratorial talk, I can’t help but be pursuaded by arguments that this is nothing more than the “ultimate power grab” to permanently shift the dynamic of government dependence towards the democrats. I see this as being alomost completely antithetical to social justice. And I’m completely for social justice, just not as practiced by the coddling of dependancy.
I know, I sound mean-spirited. That’s not what I intend. And I do pray that we can figure this out for everyone. God Bless
Moto
A
anthony022071
Guest
God does not approve of socialism and he does not require us to support government programs that subvert the natural duties of families,neighbors and churches.
It is not the duty of the government to provide health care. The government cannot love or show genuine interest in persons,it can only treat them like mere dependent creatures of needs. If people are dying for lack of health care,it is either their own negligence or that of their families and neighbors.
Your support for government control over hospitals and sick people has nothing to do with love and obedience to Jesus. It is just a mistaken idea of who is responsible for caring for the sick.
It doesn’t matter. He was educated along socialist lines of thought. He does not respect the limits that the Constitution puts on government and the freedoms that it is intended to protect. Many constitutional scholars are socialists who want the constitution to be altered to give the government more power over the citizens.
R
ReConverted
Guest
Oh, boy. Heeeeeere we go…
Why bother with speaking to the issues mentioned and my comments? It’s so much easier to yell “ABORTION! ABORTION! ABORTION!” as a way to dodge the issues I raised.
The economy is bad? Blame ABORTION!
Our highways need repairing? Blame ABORTION!
Yer house burnt down? ABORTION!
Yer football team lost? ABORTION!
I no way am I making light of abortion, in fact, I am personally and directly responsible for STOPPING an abortion. I convinced my friend to carry her baby to term. I even got to be the labor coach! The baby was born healthy and she is my Goddaughter, she’s 21 now. However, I AM illustrating what is all too common among many Catholics these days; the tendency to use abortion as an argument against just about anything. Abortion is a heinous and hideous crime, but when people use it as answer to anything they don’t agree with, it deflects from the topic at hand. If you wish to discuss abortion, I’m very willing to do so, but my post had NOTHING to do with the evil known as abortion.
I’m a Pro-Life Democrat, and you’re right, there are a LOT of us working to change the Party’s stance on life issues. Thank you for saying that, it is much appreciated.
Also, thanks for hearing me out.
God bless you.
Why bother with speaking to the issues mentioned and my comments? It’s so much easier to yell “ABORTION! ABORTION! ABORTION!” as a way to dodge the issues I raised.
The economy is bad? Blame ABORTION!
Our highways need repairing? Blame ABORTION!
Yer house burnt down? ABORTION!
Yer football team lost? ABORTION!
I no way am I making light of abortion, in fact, I am personally and directly responsible for STOPPING an abortion. I convinced my friend to carry her baby to term. I even got to be the labor coach! The baby was born healthy and she is my Goddaughter, she’s 21 now. However, I AM illustrating what is all too common among many Catholics these days; the tendency to use abortion as an argument against just about anything. Abortion is a heinous and hideous crime, but when people use it as answer to anything they don’t agree with, it deflects from the topic at hand. If you wish to discuss abortion, I’m very willing to do so, but my post had NOTHING to do with the evil known as abortion.
I’m a Pro-Life Democrat, and you’re right, there are a LOT of us working to change the Party’s stance on life issues. Thank you for saying that, it is much appreciated.
Also, thanks for hearing me out.
God bless you.
R
ReConverted
Guest
***Tell that to Pope Benedict. ***
alan.com/2010/11/19/pope-says-health-care-is-inalienable-right-a-moral-responsibility-of-governments/
alan.com/2010/11/19/pope-says-health-care-is-inalienable-right-a-moral-responsibility-of-governments/
D
dmelosi
Guest
We are not talking about the economy or our highways or house burning down or football team, we are talking about why the healthcare law as written by Obama’s administration is morally embarrassing.
Don’t you think that it is going to be hard to change your parties mind when the head of it argued the infants born alive act? At the very least that should be morally embarrassing to you.
T
tonyrey
Guest
Irrefutable!
R
ReConverted
Guest
I was using those ridiculous examples to illustrate my point. Nice try at dodging, though.
I’m not morally embarassed one bit, because I disagree with that decision. It’s a fight to get my party to turn around to be sure, but it’s worth it, because the right wing in this country has gone from bad to abominable…and they NEED to be opposed. Hopefully, the righties will start caring about humans that are already born someday. Jesus said to feed, clothe, and shelter the poor, so your appeals to the Constitution, etc. don’t matter. He told us what to do, **and there are no strings attached to that command of his **by the way…he told us to do it. PERIOD. Somehow, I doubt if our Lord cares one bit about how the poor are fed…by individual, by the government, or both. He just wants it done.
And once again, we’re talking about abortion. Hmm… Amazing. Simply amazing.
R
ReapReason
Guest
I have been reading through this amazing thread, and i have to say that free health care is being held hostage by the abortion issue. I think this is wrong and is simply a sad excuse to oppose free heatlh care by emotionally blackmailing people.
R
ReConverted
Guest
Exactly.
D
dmelosi
Guest
Abortion is killing a human being. It is too bad that so many people think it is ok to do that.
- Status