Catholics VS Health Care in America: Morally Embarrassing

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Gaber said:
No. I am asking why you are upset to that degree about one brand of murder while willingly sponsoring others. Or is murder not murder depending on the victim? And legally, while in the Catholic definition it is commonly seen as murder, abortion is not legally defined as murder in our Country. And if you haven’t noticed yet, even in the most blatent of cases, the perpetrator is assigned as having allegedly commited a crime until there is a trial and a verdict of innocent or guilty. Allignment with Catholic doctrine doesn’t change the rules of standard usage and convention in reporting. At least not for me.
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I never said abortion was considered murder legally, I just said it was very telling that you described government and corporate deaths as murder and make sure to say that abortion is not legally murder.
 
Gaber said:
Yes, it is afe to say that, as you are neither required to change your stand on human life, and morally you are insulated from the alleged paying for murder by your right intentions in rendering unto Caeser for health care you are already paying for for Congress, etc. And you are also already paying for mnurder by t=paying taxes that support wars that were levied for by the party you feel is against “Obamacare.” So what are you doing? Being picky about the kind of murder you sponsor? Or when you buy things, like say gasoline, or Coca Cola, or anything from Monsanto, or pernaps even Walmart, are you not aware that you are sponsoring conditions that lead either to murder or untimely death? So where is your distinction? To throw the baby our with the bath so you can hone a point about a line you cross many times daily anyway???
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If politics don’t work don’t you feel that it’s time for God to make a new heaven and a new earth and finally put and end to the evilness of this world?
 
dmelosi said:
I never said abortion was considered murder legally, I just said it was very telling that you described government and corporate deaths as murder and make sure to say that abortion is not legally murder.
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What is the distinction? Corporations conduct activites that result in deaths by deliberate negligence. That is legally murders and few if any pay for it. Abortion Suicides happen because of corporate actions. More American soldiers die of suicide than of war injuries and no one seems to care. And whatever the reality is, it is arguable that wars nowadays are cuducted under corporate influence surrounding commercialism thatn actual political need, though such is used as a legitimization. Bt you appear to be saying that there is a special category of murder, and we ought not take murder as such as our theme, but only one sort of it. Yes?

I’m not for abortion, by any means, but we have to be honest with ourselves as well. All of us are implied by indirect support of some form of other of murder. I’m onlyu asking why this particular one is being singled out on here by so many as a politidcal issue and a reason for choosing a party, when the other party is perhaps more guilty of supporting and aiding the perpetration of equally heinious acts and more. other words, why are you drawing an artificial and imaginary line?
 
Gaber said:
What is the distinction? Corporations conduct activites that result in deaths by deliberate negligence. That is legally murders and few if any pay for it. Abortion Suicides happen because of corporate actions. More American soldiers die of suicide than of war injuries and no one seems to care. And whatever the reality is, it is arguable that wars nowadays are cuducted under corporate influence surrounding commercialism thatn actual political need, though such is used as a legitimization. Bt you appear to be saying that there is a special category of murder, and we ought not take murder as such as our theme, but only one sort of it. Yes?

I’m not for abortion, by any means, but we have to be honest with ourselves as well. All of us are implied by indirect support of some form of other of murder. I’m onlyu asking why this particular one is being singled out on here by so many as a politidcal issue and a reason for choosing a party, when the other party is perhaps more guilty of supporting and aiding the perpetration of equally heinious acts and more. other words, why are you drawing an artificial and imaginary line?
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I agree that we have to be honest with ourselves. To put it simply there have been over 40 million abortions, over 40 million killing of the most innocent human beings that cannot in any way shape or form protect themselves. This is crystal clear that it is happening. The other things you talk about are generalities and some of the things you call murder are in fact not. You are not talking about anything specific.

On one hand you are an apologist for the democratic party and on the other hand you cry murder about generalities of which some may be legit.
 
dmelosi said:
I agree that we have to be honest with ourselves. To put it simply there have been over 40 million abortions, over 40 million killing of the most innocent human beings that cannot in any way shape or form protect themselves. This is crystal clear that it is happening. The other things you talk about are generalities and some of the things you call murder are in fact not. You are not talking about anything specific.

On one hand you are an apologist for the democratic party and on the other hand you cry murder about generalities of which some may be legit.
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And some not, as there is rationalization on religious grounds as well. And please don’t mistake me for a friend of the Democrats. I am a friend, primarily, of critical thinking. And you seem t have things too conveniently assigned and divided up. Makes it easy that way to wave a flag and yell slogans. but you have made upi your mind, and so will enjoy the consequences of that, good or bad, as those are the terms it seems to me you would apply to such.

Nice chatting with you! 🙂
 
Gaber said:
And some not, as there is rationalization on religious grounds as well. And please don’t mistake me for a friend of the Democrats. I am a friend, primarily, of critical thinking. And you seem t have things too conveniently assigned and divided up. Makes it easy that way to wave a flag and yell slogans. but you have made upi your mind, and so will enjoy the consequences of that, good or bad, as those are the terms it seems to me you would apply to such.

Nice chatting with you! 🙂
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I have made up my mind on abortion but please don’t make up what else I have made my mind up on.
 
dmelosi said:
I cannot understand the people married to their party that try to justify this mass killing when they know good and well the evil of it, rather than try to change it.
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This applies to both parties.
 
When the government takes tax off me, it is no-longer my responsibility what happens to that money. Its the governments responsibility. It is no longer your money. If the government decides to use universal health care as an excuse to fund abortions, then this is not my responsibility, but rather it is an unavoidable error of the human law and knowledge, just like corrupt wars, poverty, and unemployment. I am not justified in depriving people of the moral dignity of medical health care. The permission of one evil is a greater good than accepting two evils in the form of legal abortion and no universal health care. You are not changing anything for the better by accepting both evils in-order to prevent the immoral misuse of tax, since it will always be the case that money will be misused by governments. We should be trying to alleviate as much evil as possible. You have have already admitted that a huge number of abortions occur regardless of whether or not universal health care exists.

Its a red herring to imply that being taxed for universal healthcare is to be morally responsible for the addition of abortion in the health care plan. Not only that, its a wolf in sheep’s clothing since it is merely an excuse to prevent universal health care.
 
ReapReason said:
When the government takes tax off me, it is no-longer my responsibility what happens to that money. Its the governments responsibility. It is no longer your money. If the government decides to use universal health care as an excuse to fund abortions, then this is not my responsibility, but rather it is an unavoidable error of the human law and knowledge. I am not justified in depriving people of the moral dignity of medical health care. The permission of one evil is a greater good than accepting two evils in the form of legal abortion and no universal health care.

Its a red herring to imply that being taxed for universal healthcare is to be morally responsible for the addition of abortion in the health care plan.
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The red herring here is to allow paid for abortions without fighting to have it removed. It is morally irresponsible for any Catholic who follows their faith to accept these paid for executions without a fight.
 
dmelosi said:
The red herring here is to allow paid for abortions without fighting to have it removed. It is morally irresponsible for any Catholic who follows their faith to accept these paid for executions without a fight.
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It is not logically or epistemologically possible to have it legally removed. It is a human right; It is institutionalised. I have already explained why.

It is also irresponsible to deny people the moral dignity of universal health care.
 
dmelosi said:
I have already explained why you can.

Vote for the candidate who will most likely nominate pro life judges.
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That will not change it; I have already explained why. You refuse to address the problem.

T hats like saying vote for candidates that will nominate pro segregation judges, and expecting their beliefs to truly have an effect on law. Its not as simple as that.
 
ReapReason said:
That will not change it; I have already explained why. You refuse to address the problem.

T hats like saying vote for candidates that will nominate pro segregation judges, and expecting their beliefs to truly have an effect on law. Its not as simple as that.
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How am I refusing to address the problem?

Your explanation is simply wrong.
 
dmelosi said:
How am I refusing to address the problem?

Your explanation is simply wrong.
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Blind assertions don’t work on me. Try harder; like giving a rational explanation as to why I am wrong. That way I will know that I am not speaking to a dishonest person who is in denial about the way the world works.
 
ReapReason said:
Blind assertions don’t work on me. Try harder; like giving a rational explanation as to why I am wrong. That way I will know that I am not speaking to a dishonest person who is in denial about the way the world works.
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Voting will not have a major influence on changing the law? You are the one that is in denial.
 
ReapReason said:
And I guess that’s why you keep fighting a lost legal battle against abortion.:rolleyes:
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Your agenda in trying to make people believe that voting has no influence in the abortion laws is suspect at the least.

Do you deny that the democratic platform states openly that they are for abortion on demand?

Do you deny that the republican platform states that they are against abortion.

How do you explain the naral ratings of the democrats vs republicans?
 
ReapReason said:
When the government takes tax off me, it is no-longer my responsibility what happens to that money. Its the governments responsibility. It is no longer your money. If the government decides to use universal health care as an excuse to fund abortions, then this is not my responsibility, but rather it is an unavoidable error of the human law and knowledge, just like corrupt wars, poverty, and unemployment. I am not justified in depriving people of the moral dignity of medical health care. The permission of one evil is a greater good than accepting two evils in the form of legal abortion and no universal health care. You are not changing anything for the better by accepting both evils in-order to prevent the immoral misuse of tax, since it will always be the case that money will be misused by governments. We should be trying to alleviate as much evil as possible. You have have already admitted that a huge number of abortions occur regardless of whether or not universal health care exists.

Its a red herring to imply that being taxed for universal healthcare is to be morally responsible for the addition of abortion in the health care plan. Not only that, its a wolf in sheep’s clothing since it is merely an excuse to prevent universal health care.
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This is very well stated. It is in fact an aberrationof conscience to transfere the government’s alleged culpability in one area onto oneself and distribute personal obstructionism therefore onto thte whole.
 
ReapReason said:
When the government takes tax off me, it is no-longer my responsibility what happens to that money. Its the governments responsibility. It is no longer your money. If the government decides to use universal health care as an excuse to fund abortions, then this is not my responsibility, but rather it is an unavoidable error of the human law and knowledge, just like corrupt wars, poverty, and unemployment. I am not justified in depriving people of the moral dignity of medical health care. The permission of one evil is a greater good than accepting two evils in the form of legal abortion and no universal health care. You are not changing anything for the better by accepting both evils in-order to prevent the immoral misuse of tax, since it will always be the case that money will be misused by governments. We should be trying to alleviate as much evil as possible. You have have already admitted that a huge number of abortions occur regardless of whether or not universal health care exists.

Its a red herring to imply that being taxed for universal healthcare is to be morally responsible for the addition of abortion in the health care plan. Not only that, its a wolf in sheep’s clothing since it is merely an excuse to prevent universal health care.
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👍👍👍
 
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