Catholics who know history: please answer

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Hisalone said:
rinnie did you read Jerome? did you read Tertullian?
I have proved that the CC teaching on graven images is different than what scripture says.
If for you that is nothing then again you have chosen to believe men and not God.
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Hisalone I quoted you scripture straight from the Bible.
 
Hisalone what Church do you belong to. On what authority do you have to trump the Pope who can prove succesion straight from Jesus Christ himself. Who teaches you your faith. Or do you claim to also like the Pope himself to have the Power of the Holy Spirit?
 
rinnie said:
Oh now celebrating Christmas and celebrating the Birth of My Lord is considered a Pagan Holiday. Then I guess you are calling me a pagan also and my God Jesus Christ a Pagan God also? Because on Christmas eve and Christmas day around the world on Dec 24 and 24 is considered the birth Of Jesus Christ our King! Is that what you are saying?
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Before Dec 25 was the celebration of Jesus birth pagans celebrated for a number of various reasons.
Jesus was more likely to have been born in late September early October than late September. December 25 was chosen so that Christians could “redeem” the pagan holiday and the pagans who converted into Christianity could go on celebrating on Dec 25.
 
rinnie said:
Hisalone what Church do you belong to. On what authority do you have to trump the Pope who can prove succesion straight from Jesus Christ himself. Who teaches you your faith. Or do you claim to also like the Pope himself to have the Power of the Holy Spirit?
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I will say this again.
rinnie it is not me vs the pope it is the pope vs scripture. This is also the stand Luther took. But think about it what is the proper position?
 
Hisalone said:
I will say this again.
rinnie it is not me vs the pope it is the pope vs scripture. This is also the stand Luther took. But think about it what is the proper position?
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Yes and Luther Lost, He was kicked out of the Church and the Church still stands! The Catholic Church is still here isn’t it. But I do not follow Luther I follow the Pope, the Person That Jesus left the CHurch to. Peter’s Church, the RCC. Who do you follow, Is it luther, you never answered me?
 
rinnie said:
Yes and Luther Lost, He was kicked out of the Church and the Church still stands! The Catholic Church is still here isn’t it. But I do not follow Luther I follow the Pope, the Person That Jesus left the CHurch to. Peter’s Church, the RCC. Who do you follow, Is it luther, you never answered me?
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God won He has saved for Himself a remnant that does not bow their knees to statues.

I belong to a non denominational church.
 
Hisalone said:
God won He has saved for Himself a remnant that does not bow their knees to statues.

I belong to a non denominational church.
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Okay you do not bow before Statues of Jesus Christ, then who do you bow to? And what is a non-denominational Chruch, What no rules, who teaches you the word of Christ. And if this is what Jesus wanted why did he not do that. Why did he leave Peter and the APostles to teach us and rule the Church. Who’s had the authority to change the Catholic Church started by Peter into a non demominational Church. What did you take the whole teachings of the bible and just throw them out, What about stay true to the Traditions and teachings of the church? Is that ignored or what?
 
Hisalone said:
God won He has saved for Himself a remnant that does not bow their knees to statues.

I belong to a non denominational church.
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And I am sorry our bible say’s to bow before your God, There will be no false God before me.
 
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Realcatholicgk:
What I would say is that I worship our Heavenly Father through my worship of, and belief in his Son and our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe in Jesus through the Apostles, from their writtings, and through many disciples and their witness. Anyone who believes in Jesus has came by this belief either directly or indirectly through the Apostles, and their written testimonies and oral testimonies passed down through the disciples. “Protestants” or “separated brethren” have faith in Jesus through the writting of the Apostles in the Bible. For the “Protestants” that I know of, “Sola Scriptura”
does not negate tradition, only the traditions that are contrary to, or at least questionable, concerning Biblical instruction. The foundation of the true Church is Jesus Christ. Everything built on this foundation will be tested with fire. As long as the foundation is Jesus Christ, even if everything is consumed in the fire, the person will still be saved. The only reason I mention this is because there are “churches” that do not have Jesus Christ as their foundation, so someone can’t say that all “churches” will be saved. One reason the Protestant Reformation occurred was that there were a significant number of people at the time that felt that the Church had been corrupted by evil forces…They believed that the Church was becoming concerned with earthly matters, i.e. politics, and was teachings " false traditions". As people in general became more literate, some of the historical writings from the early Church and the Bible were being scrutinized my more and more people. As far as if the Prostestant Reformation was justified or not, you would have to ask yourself “If someone was poisoning my body, should I stand up and do something about it or should I just stay quiet and avoid breaking the rules.” The “protestants” that rose up and went against the statu quo believed that they were defending the true faith. The Roman Catholic Church felt that the Protestant Reformation was an offense against God,while the “Protestants” felt that the offense had already been commited.
 
rinnie said:
Okay you do not bow before Statues of Jesus Christ, then who do you bow to? And what is a non-denominational Chruch, What no rules, who teaches you the word of Christ. And if this is what Jesus wanted why did he not do that. Why did he leave Peter and the APostles to teach us and rule the Church. Who’s had the authority to change the Catholic Church started by Peter into a non demominational Church. What did you take the whole teachings of the bible and just throw them out, What about stay true to the Traditions and teachings of the church? Is that ignored or what?
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I will send you the Spirit of truth that will lead you onto all truth.
Peter and Paul belonged to a non denominational church which had no statues or icons in them. Peter and Paul did not pray to the dead.
 
John1 said:
What I would say is that I worship our Heavenly Father through my worship of, and belief in his Son and our Lord Jesus Christ. I believe in Jesus through the Apostles, from their writtings, and through many disciples and their witness. Anyone who believes in Jesus has came by this belief either directly or indirectly through the Apostles, and their written testimonies and oral testimonies passed down through the disciples. “Protestants” or “separated brethren” have faith in Jesus through the writting of the Apostles in the Bible. For the “Protestants” that I know of, “Sola Scriptura”
does not negate tradition, only the traditions that are contrary to, or at least questionable, concerning Biblical instruction. The foundation of the true Church is Jesus Christ. Everything built on this foundation will be tested with fire. As long as the foundation is Jesus Christ, even if everything is consumed in the fire, the person will still be saved. The only reason I mention this is because there are “churches” that do not have Jesus Christ as their foundation, so someone can’t say that all “churches” will be saved. One reason the Protestant Reformation occurred was that there were a significant number of people at the time that felt that the Church had been corrupted by evil forces…They believed that the Church was becoming concerned with earthly matters, i.e. politics, and was teachings " false traditions". As people in general became more literate, some of the historical writings from the early Church and the Bible were being scrutinized my more and more people. As far as if the Prostestant Reformation was justified or not, you would have to ask yourself “If someone was poisoning my body, should I stand up and do something about it or should I just stay quiet and avoid breaking the rules.” The “protestants” that rose up and went against the statu quo believed that they were defending the true faith. The Roman Catholic Church felt that the Protestant Reformation was an offense against God,while the “Protestants” felt that the offense had already been commited.
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Well said.
 
Hisalone said:
I will send you the Spirit of truth that will lead you onto all truth.
Peter and Paul belonged to a non denominational church which had no statues or icons in them. Peter and Paul did not pray to the dead.
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Oh please go back and read the bible. You are so misled, I do not know by who or whom but that is not true. Peter started the RCC in Rome. Peter did believe in prayers for the dead. The bible is full of it. I have showed you many of times. Why do you refuse to answer. why do you keep ignoring 1 tim 2:1-4 why do you not answer the OT teachings of what I have told you? About the Statues. Why do you ignore Jas 5:16. If you go to the CHurch of Peter today there are statues everywhere, its still in Rome. No offense but are you from this planet (sorry but what I mean have you every even heard of the Church Peter started?
 
DebChris said:
What has not been mentioned on this thread is the written Word of God came after Tradition. Tradition (Capital T) is that collection of teachings that the Apostles preached about who Jesus truly was.
The Word of God did not come from heaven in the form of a book. The Word of God came to earth in the form of a man.

CCC81 “Sacred Sripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit.”
“And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the Apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound, and spread it abroad by their preaching.”
:newidea: And the Light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overwhelmed it (and if we take the libert of presuming the tenceless ancient Hebrew understanding: has not, does not, will not overcome it) I am not an appoligist. I’m what Protistants seem to dismiss as impossible; a Catholic Biblical scholar, and as such am always confusing the issue with historical facts. Scripture was produced by the Church, in the Church, redacted in the Church and is infalable when and only when it is inturpreted by the Magesterium of the Church. It is a component of the Tradition, but only a component not to be understood except in conjunction with the other components, and always to be secondary to the Mass.:tiphat:

Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture communicate with one another and are honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reference.

I just found this on the Ask an Apologist Thread and it seems to fit with our discussion:
… The Catholic Church is the tree Christ planted. Other Christian groups are leaves and branches that have fallen from that original tree.
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Hisalone said:
Three false practices/doctrines of the RCC that the reformation ended were:
1)graven images
2)praying to dead folks
3)purgatory
all within the parameters of this thread.
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*Hisalone!

You are so mistaken!
  1. Graven images*? What is that? Are you referring to Sacred Art? If that is graven images then you must come to the Catholic Church and the Vatican - Full of Sacred Art. Beautiful.
  2. Praying to dead folks? Really? Have you never heard of the Resurrection? Do you not believe in Eternal Life? When I make intecessory prayers to the Saints (I am not referring to Praise and Prayers of Worship - intecessory prayers are very different) How can you say the Saints are dead? They are alive in heaven. If you think that when you die in this life you’re dead then you must wake up and get a life. This is what our Faith is all about my friend. This is what salvation is all about! If we die dead then what is the use? You must study Christianity seriously.
  3. Purgatory. Well thank God for Purgatory. You will thank God one day for Purgatory. Again study and understand. Its all there. Seek and you shall find.
Luther, Calvin and Zwingli all had great love and devotion for the Virgin Mary and prayed their rosaries. If I am not mistaken Luther might even have an engraving on his grave with mention of Mary - I am not sure. These three “Reformers” believed her to be the Mother of God - this is documented and irrefutable. My dear, Luther must be turning in his grave to see what a mess he made and how watered down the Protestant faith is. There is a H U G E difference between he believed and how the Protestant church he created. The Protestant church has become so many threads and strings and denominations - the accept divorce, abortion, artificial contraception etc. etc - now they even franchise their mega churches. I say this sincerely and hope that my Protestant friends will not be offended.

Hisalone - don’t be so full of anger and hatred. Remember you have to love.

:whistle: Love…:whistle: love changes everything!:whistle: :harp:
 
rinnie said:
2 Praying do dead folks as you put it

Please explain this

1 tim 2:5 In particular we should ask for intercession of those christians in heaven who have alredy had thier sanctification completed for the prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects (jas 5:16)

Please explain ? See’s to me the sanctification kinda clears up purgatory too. But again I am waiting for your response?
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Thanks for that passage - I must note it down. But Rinnie, Hisalone won’t understand what you are saying - you must edit your posting first!😃
 
Hisalone said:
God won He has saved for Himself a remnant that does not bow their knees to statues.

I belong to a non denominational church.
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The Catholic Church is not a denomination. Didn’t you know that? That applies to Protestant churches.
😦
 
Hisalone said:
I will send you the Spirit of truth that will lead you onto all truth.
Peter and Paul belonged to a non denominational church which had no statues or icons in them. Peter and Paul did not pray to the dead.
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Pray to the dead? What on earth is that?:confused:
 
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