Catholics who know history: please answer

[Hisalone]

Hi DebChris,

Thanks for this post. I think that the early Protestants were separating from what they saw as a corrupt organization and not separating from Christ Since they didn’t separate from Christ I believe that they are still a part of the Body. I don’t think that many would appreciate being called a “catholic” because I think they would assume that you were saying “Roman Catholic”.

Hi Benedictus2,

Thanks for the links, I’ve added them to my favorites. I think that maybe you and Hisalone prefer trashing each other than recognizing your common ground, namely Jesus Christ, He’s your common foundation.

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

 

[Hisalone]

And who revealed this “truth” to you? Are you making things up again? Maybe respecting His Mother is Number one? or Leaving his church on Earth. Never assume yuo know anything about God. If you knew his ways wouldn’t you be GOD?

Can you meditate for a moment on the purpose that Jesus was sent by the Father?
Was it not to save a lost and dying world?
Was that not the plan and purpose?

BTW what a nasty, nasty response.

 

[rinnie]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

Hisalone you are back. My turn can you answer my questions now. Fair is fair. Lets start with graven images, you said Moses could do it just one time. Now you said before it was forbidden for any reason, lets start there! You also said a statue of Jesus is a sin, and breaks the first commandment. Now how is a statue of Jesus a image of a false God. You never answered me?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

What is that one thing Ive missed it.

Your certainly not saying holiness?
Why do the Jews pray for the dead? Did you see the thread on questions on the Judiasm?

Since i am not Jewish i do not know the theology behind it. what is know is that prayers for the dead is a tradition that goes back into our Jewish roots. That it was a practice with Christians right up till the reformation.

 

[rinnie]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

Oh I forgot, This comment also, How can you separate Christ from the Roman Church. The Church Peter started. How could you? And as you always ask me where in the bible does it say we need to separate Christ from the Roman Catholic Church?

 

[benedictus2]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

When you honor His Bride you honor Him.

When you dishonor His Bride, you dishonor Him.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

It is not a separating Jesus and Rome. It is separating Jesus and the Church that is what can not be done. The earthly head of the Church just happens to be in Rome.

For the Church is the Bride, if you do not honor the Bride you do not honor the Groom.

As Catholics we give honor to both the bride and the Bridegroom. God has keep us tied to him. That Jesus gave us the Priesthood and the sacraments as our way to to maintain our focus on Him.

If you are looking at the ritual only then you really need to look again and do so with your hear and soul. close your eys and open your heart.

May God’s peace and the Love of the Lord Jesus be with you.
As for me I can no longer fight over God any longer. I will always fight for him, but I will know longer argue with people over things that have happened that took so many out if Christ Church and into so many of the protestant denoms and non denoms and cults and what ever else that all can be traced back to Luther and Calvin and their ilk. If there are question I will give an answer I will not debate that answer if it is not liked that fine I can do nothing about it.

One thing to remember is that if Luther had done as he was told that the abuses of indulgences and other issues he had would have been dealt with as they were and we all would more that likely still be one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and these discussion and fighting would not take place

 

[benedictus2]

Hi Benedictus2,

Thanks for the links, I’ve added them to my favorites. I think that maybe you and Hisalone prefer trashing each other than recognizing your common ground, namely Jesus Christ, He’s your common foundation.

Hey, it’s all good fun and all water on duck’s back.

The question is: Is He our common foundation? I think we believe in two different Christs considering that he is quite happy to ignore Christ’s own words and rather stick to what Paul says. Hmm.

Which I find protestants do a lot. They quote Paul left right and centre and when you bring up the gospel, they’d still go back to Paul. It’s like oh you can stick to John but I will stick to Galatians. .

And that only happens in protestantism. In the Catholic Church they all make one cohesive whole.

 

[benedictus2]

Can you meditate for a moment on the purpose that Jesus was sent by the Father?
Was it not to save a lost and dying world?
Was that not the plan and purpose?

BTW what a nasty, nasty response.

You are 100% correct there. But it is the how and why of it where we part ways.

 

[benedictus2]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

Of course you can’t separate Christ from the Church. If you separate Christ from His Church it is no longer His Church. Now why would he establish a Church just to be separated from it? He promised He will be with her till the end of the world.

 

[John1]

Hey, it’s all good fun and all water on duck’s back.

The question is: Is He our common foundation? I think we believe in two different Christs considering that he is quite happy to ignore Christ’s own words and rather stick to what Paul says. Hmm.

Which I find protestants do a lot. They quote Paul left right and centre and when you bring up the gospel, they’d still go back to Paul. It’s like oh you can stick to John but I will stick to Galatians. .

And that only happens in protestantism. In the Catholic Church they all make one cohesive whole.

I don’t know about that, I’m Catholic and I take into consideration what the Apostles wrote concerning Christ’s teaching. The way I look at it is that Paul, John, or Peter, etc. would not be stating something that was contrary to Christ’s teaching, so you can get a deeper or more profound understanding of Jesus, and what he said, by reading the passages in context and then compare what His Apostle wrote in their letters. No offense but you can’t understand Matthew 7:1 without reading what Jesus say in Matthew 7:2-8. When Paul says that we are to judge those inside the Church in 1 Corinthians, logically it cannot be contrary to what Jesus taught.

In Luke 14:26 it states that Jesus says “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as his own life, he can’t be my disciple.” I truely doubt that I have to hate my mother and father and children to be a disciple of Christ, but that is what He said, so if I took the view that “Jesus said it and I believe it” , without interpreting it, I would be missing the point of what Christ saying.

 

[benedictus2]

I don’t know about that, I’m Catholic and I take into consideration what the Apostles wrote concerning Christ’s teaching. The way I look at it is that Paul, John, or Peter, etc. would not be stating something that was contrary to Christ’s teaching, so you can get a deeper or more profound understanding of Jesus, and what he said, by reading the passages in context and then compare what His Apostle wrote in their letters. No offense but you can’t understand Matthew 7:1 without reading what Jesus say in Matthew 7:2-8. When Paul says that we are to judge those inside the Church in 1 Corinthians, logically it cannot be contrary to what Jesus taught.

In Luke 14:26 it states that Jesus says “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as his own life, he can’t be my disciple.” I truely doubt that I have to hate my mother and father and children to be a disciple of Christ, but that is what He said, so if I took the view that “Jesus said it and I believe it” , without interpreting it, I would be missing the point of what Christ saying.

But this is exactly my point. Everytime they want to attack the Church, they would quote Romans, Galatians, etc and someone would bring up Christ’s own words in the Gospel asking them to square their quote with that.

But inspite of that, they would just keep saying oh but Paul Romans, Ephesians, Galatians says this. As if Paul would contradict Christ.

A convert (T.L Frazer I think but I am not sure of that) commented that once he converted, there were no longer any hard passages. The readings that he used to skip when he was a pastor he could now read with delight.

And don’t get me wrong. I like Hisalone and everyone I come into a verbal fencing with. As I said in another thread, it’s all part and parcel of being in this forum. I think it would be rather fake if we were to go all gooey, sappy sentimentalism in the name of brother love.

It is like olympic fencing. You shake hands after the last touche or something like that.

And people can tell me I’m dead WRONG and worse things and that’s all okay. Unless I can prove otherwise, they are most likely right.

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

**Hi Hisalone, **

I am Just asking, isn’t it even sadder that some people who call themselves christians don’t realize Jesus is actually the head of the Body of Christ, which He personally established 2,000 years ago? Separate the Head from the body and what would you get? a dead body! Protestants are trying to become a second body for Christ? That would be kind of like a Frankenstein monster of some kind wouldn’t it? Hint: Jesus has one body, He only wanted one, He only estanblehed one. That was 2,000 years ago not 500 years, not 300, years not 200, years. One body 2,00 years old not 61,000 bodies all less that 500 and some maybe days old!

**Separate Rome from Christ Wouldn’t Satan love that! Then He would rule the entire world! **

God Bless

 

[Cinette]

**Hi Hisalone, **

**I am Just asking, isn’t it even sadder that some people who call themselves christians don’t realize Jesus is actually the head of the Body of Christ, which He personally …

He only estanblehed one.**

*Hey Real! Tell me, what does “estanblehed” mean? I can’t find it in the dictionary!

Hey!!! Agh mmmaaannnnnnnn! Must be Made in China!!

 

[rinnie]

Sadly many Catholics cannot seperate Christ from the Roman Church. If they honor Christ I honor them.
If they only honor Rome Im out.

Did you catch that. he said he honor’s them. And we get so much slack for Saying we HONOR the Blessed Mother. Wonder who them is. Only is alone would know. Mercy!

 

[Realcatholicgk]

**Hi Hisalone, **

**I am Just asking, isn’t it even sadder that some people who call themselves christians don’t realize Jesus is actually the head of the Body of Christ, which He personally …

He only estanblehed one.**

*Hey Real! Tell me, what does “estanblehed” mean? I can’t find it in the dictionary!

Hey!!! Agh mmmaaannnnnnnn! Must be Made in China!!


Hi Cinette,

freesmileys.org/smileys/angry021.gif

freesmileys.org/smileys/signs139.gif

 

[Realcatholicgk]

Hi His,

Can you meditate for a moment on the purpose that Jesus was sent by the Father? **Sure, I’d be glad to! **

Was is not to save a lost and dying world? No!

Was that not the plan and purpose?** No!**

**
No, He came to pay a debt he didn’t owe, because we owe a debt we can’t pay! **

BTW what a nasty, nasty response
**
Why would you say that? **

 

[statimsciens]

I realize this thread has devolved into odd responses and extravagent statements, but I would like to suggest a good secular book about the origins of the Reformations (yes, plural)

Euan Cameron “The European Reformation” Oxford University Press, 1991.

Cameron summarizes most of the problems and proposals for this very problematic question.

I’d also like to point out that Catholicism had Christian competitors before Luther, like the Hussites (which were actually the first succesful group to ceceed from the Catholic church a hundred years before Luther.)

As someone has already said, this is a significant historiographic problem with few sure answers.

 

[hoi_polloi]

I have been very busy, don’t have much free time on my hands. I feel that I need to express a concern. I realize this forum has been used to say that the Catholic Church is the one true church. I believe that Jesus is the reason. I implore you to please pray to Him, please confess that you are a sinner and you need His forgiveness, please ask him to come into your life, and make Him Lord and Savior. He is coming back very very soon. If I can reach just one person with this message, I will be thankful. I hold my Catholic friends in high regard. Please understand, I was spiritually blind, but now I see. I don’t expect you to understand, the only way you will know what I say is true, is if you pray the prayer from your heart and really mean it. Please don’t put it off, please pray to Jesus right now. God Bless you.

 

[benedictus2]

I have been very busy, don’t have much free time on my hands. I feel that I need to express a concern. I realize this forum has been used to say that the Catholic Church is the one true church. I believe that Jesus is the reason. I implore you to please pray to Him, please confess that you are a sinner and you need His forgiveness, please ask him to come into your life, and make Him Lord and Savior. He is coming back very very soon. If I can reach just one person with this message, I will be thankful. I hold my Catholic friends in high regard. Please understand, I** was spiritually blind**, but now I see. I don’t expect you to understand, the only way you will know what I say is true, is if you pray the prayer from your heart and really mean it. Please don’t put it off, please pray to Jesus right now. God Bless you.

It seems the blindness is still there. Stick around and learn. Then the blindness will be healed.