Catholics who personally Schism: SSPX, Orthodox, Anglican or Polish National Church

[House_Harkonnen]

Then you must believe also that Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are part of this body of believers. right? They do come to the Father through Jesus. Not in the same way you and I do but who’s keeping track, right?

Proof your church is not of original origin. See first council of Constantinople in 381 for the four marks of the church. If you recite the Nicene creed this little adage is important to know. It also helps tie up the loose ends in your second paragraph above.

Peace!!!

Then you must believe also that Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are part of this body of believers. right? They do come to the Father through Jesus. Not in the same way you and I do but who’s keeping track, right?

They don’t believe in Jesus, therefore don’t get to the Father.

Proof your church is not of original origin. See first council of Constantinople in 381 for the four marks of the church. If you recite the Nicene creed this little adage is important to know. It also helps tie up the loose ends in your second paragraph above.

I don’t understand what your saying, can you rephrase it?

 

[adf417]

They don’t believe in Jesus, therefore don’t get to the Father.

They actually do believe in Jesus, just not the same way you and I do. The Jews do not believe in Jesus the same way we do either so with your logic the Jews don’t get to the Father either. That’s sad

I don’t understand what your saying, can you rephrase it

JamestheJust said:

I’m afraid that’s an unorthodox understanding of apostolic succession.

You responded:

Fine. It’s not that big of a deal for me anyway. I have never heard it mentioned or discussed at all in my church.

My reply:

Proof your church is not of original origin. See first council of Constantinople in 381 for the four marks of the church. If you recite the Nicene creed this little adage is important to know. It also helps tie up the loose ends in your second paragraph above.

The four marks of the church as defined in the council are “One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church” which you would be reciting if you are reciting the Nicene creed.

Peace!!!

 

[House_Harkonnen]

They actually do believe in Jesus, just not the same way you and I do. The Jews do not believe in Jesus the same way we do either so with your logic the Jews don’t get to the Father either. That’s sad

JamestheJust said:

You responded:

My reply:

The four marks of the church as defined in the council are “One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church” which you would be reciting if you are reciting the Nicene creed.

Peace!!!

They actually do believe in Jesus, just not the same way you and I do. The Jews do not believe in Jesus the same way we do either so with your logic the Jews don’t get to the Father either. That’s sad

No. They believe he was an exalted man, created by God. We both know that’s a false understanding. Others like Jews and Muslims consider him just a man. No one comes to the father but by Jesus, the real Jesus.

The four marks of the church as defined in the council are “One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church” which you would be reciting if you are reciting the Nicene creed.

I confess the Nicene or Apostles creed every Sunday. In doing so that my denomination is as apostolic as yours.

 

[adf417]

No. They believe he was an exalted man, created by God. We both know that’s a false understanding. Others like Jews and Muslims consider him just a man. No one comes to the father but by Jesus, the real Jesus.

There is not enough difference in Jewish, Muslim, or JW understanding to consider one of these groups to come to the Father while the other does not. If you are saying that non of these three groups come to the Father than that just sad.

I confess the Nicene or Apostles creed every Sunday. In doing so that my denomination is as apostolic as yours.

Hence JamestheJust’s comment…

I’m afraid that’s an unorthodox understanding of apostolic succession.

Peace!!!

 

[dronald]

There is not enough difference in Jewish, Muslim, or JW understanding to consider one of these groups to come to the Father while the other does not. If you are saying that non of these three groups come to the Father than that just sad.

Hence JamestheJust’s comment…

Peace!!!

I don’t think it’s okay to change the words of Scripture to intentionally deceive. That’s why I don’t put JW’s on the same playing field as us.

Mormons and Muslims have an extra Prophet and Jews have one less. Definitely not Christians.

 

[adf417]

I don’t think it’s okay to change the words of Scripture to intentionally deceive. That’s why I don’t put JW’s on the same playing field as us.

Mormons and Muslims have an extra Prophet and Jews have one less. Definitely not Christians.

I don’t either but remember, JWs were JWs long before they had their own translation, They began using the KJV and through their version of sola scripture came to the conclusion the deity of Christ was false and have a more similar view with the Muslims about Jesus.

Peace!!!

 

[House_Harkonnen]

I don’t either but remember, JWs were JWs long before they had their own translation, They began using the KJV and through their version of sola scripture came to the conclusion the deity of Christ was false and have a more similar view with the Muslims about Jesus.

Peace!!!

JWs aren’t sola Scriptura. Their Watchtower Society is the highest authority.

 

[adf417]

JWs aren’t sola Scriptura. Their Watchtower Society is the highest authority.

Like I said, their version. Ask any of them.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

For Catholics who personally Schism to either follow SSPX, Orthodoxy, Anglican or the Polish National Church, what does the Catholic Church say about them?.

Please stay on the topic of the OP

 

[Vico]

It’s seen as a sin. What level: Venial or Mortal?

CIC Can. 1364 §1. Without prejudice to the prescript of can. 194, §1, n. 2, an apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sententiae excommunication; in addition, a cleric can be punished with the penalties mentioned in ⇒ can. 1336, §1, nn. 1, 2, and 3

CIC Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Jimmy Akin writes:
“a person is not subject to the penalty if they committed their offense through innocent ignorance, inadvertence, or error (1323 no. 2).” and “If a schismatic lacked sufficient knowledge of the moral character of what they were doing (e.g., they didn’t realize that being a Catholic was important or they didn’t realize that what they were doing was actually schimatic) or if they didn’t give deliberate consent to the act (e.g., because they were suffering from a severe psychological illness that prevented them from deliberately consenting to any of their actions) then they would not be in mortal sin. They would still have sinned gravely, but the sin would not be mortal.”

jimmyakin.com/2006/09/schism_and_mort.html

Can. 1323 The following are not subject to a penalty when they have violated a law or precept:

1/ a person who has not yet completed the sixteenth year of age;

2/ a person who without negligence was ignorant that he or she violated a law or precept; inadvertence and error are equivalent to ignorance;

3/ a person who acted due to physical force or a chance occurrence which the person could not foresee or, if foreseen, avoid;

4/ a person who acted coerced by grave fear, even if only relatively grave, or due to necessity or grave inconvenience unless the act is intrinsically evil or tends to the harm of souls;

5/ a person who acted with due moderation against an unjust aggressor for the sake of legitimate self defense or defense of another;

6/ a person who lacked the use of reason, without prejudice to the prescripts of cann. ⇒ 1324, §1, n. 2 and ⇒ 1325;

7/ a person who without negligence thought that one of the circumstances mentioned in nn. 4 or 5 was present.