Catholics who read Protestant Bibles

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Preppy Boy wrote: I am going to re-state my point one last time, if you believe the Protestant Bible to be an accurate translation, or to be accurate in any way, then you support a heretical document, making you by default, immersed in a heresy that was condemned by Trent as Anathaema. That is my point, very simply, if you dont like facts, then don`t read my answers.

Getting so categorically authoritarian, eh, Preppy! The problem for Bible-reading Catholics is that, aside from the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version, there is no Bible for Catholic use that is not full of doctrinal problems of the worst sort (for example, underming the wording of passages referring to Christs divinity, pre-existence, incarnation, and ascension, Our Ladys inviolability, and a whole lot more that dwarfs matters like the wording of the Angelic Salutation. In this sense, all of the modern Catholic Bibles are shockingly defective to one degree or another, as many, but thankfully not quite, the modern Protestant versions are, excepting something like the N.K.J.V. in the Orthodox Study Bible edition with its Old Testament put into accordance with the Septuagint, the New Testament following the Traditional Byzantine Text. Some of those Protestant versions have the deuterocanonical writings either in a separate Apocrypha section or in “Catholic Editions” for us. There are a few other obscure Orthodox translations of the N.T. which are outstandingly free of error.

If you make your argument, only the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Bible, among Catholic versions, is even tolerable. That strands those who want to read the Bible in more modern English idiom. (They should revert to the Challoner translation, but we know that they will not do so.)
I think I should add that the Challoner ‘revision’ (strictly speaking it isn’t so much a revision of the original Rheims NT-Douai OT as a new version by itself which only happened to share the same name as the original) is itself heavily based on the Authorized Version, Bishop Challoner being an Anglican convert and thus familiar with its style. So it kinda goes full circle: Challoner was influenced by the AKJV, which translators in turn were influenced by the 1582 Rheims NT.
 

Patrick wrote: * I think I should add that the Challoner ‘revision’ (strictly speaking it isn’t so much a revision of the original Rheims NT-Douai OT as a new version by itself which only happened to share the same name as the original) is itself heavily based on the Authorized Version, Bishop Challoner being an Anglican convert and thus familiar with its style. So it kinda goes full circle: Challoner was influenced by the AKJV, which translators in turn were influenced by the 1582 Rheims NT. *​

Yes, Patrick, you are right about all of this. 👍 I, too, dislike the cumbersome locution, “Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version”. Challoners beneficial work setting out from the Douay-Rheims Version really is a new version for the time (existing in slightly variant forms), and a much better one, so I like to call it "Challoners version". Alas, too many Catholics do not recognise Bp. Challoner`s name, so one is stuck with the longer form of name.

The inter-influence of the A.V. and the Challoner Bibles is a marvel and both Anglicans and Catholics mutually benefitted each others` work on the English Bible.
 
i am going to re-state my point one last time, if you believe the protestant bible to be an accurate translation, or to be accurate in any way, then you support a heretical document, making you by default, immersed in a heresy that was condemned by Trent as Anathaema. that is my point, very simply, if you dont like facts, then dont read my answers.
As I said before, i invite you to prove your assertion. The documents I posted above regarding the Council of Trent says no such thing. You also forget that 99% of the protestant Bibles were not even in existence at the time of the Council of Trent. So, I look forward to reading your proof.
 

Patrick wrote: * I think I should add that the Challoner ‘revision’ (strictly speaking it isn’t so much a revision of the original Rheims NT-Douai OT as a new version by itself which only happened to share the same name as the original) is itself heavily based on the Authorized Version, Bishop Challoner being an Anglican convert and thus familiar with its style. So it kinda goes full circle: Challoner was influenced by the AKJV, which translators in turn were influenced by the 1582 Rheims NT. *​

Yes, Patrick, you are right about all of this. 👍 I, too, dislike the cumbersome locution, “Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version”. Challoners beneficial work setting out from the Douay-Rheims Version really is a new version for the time (existing in slightly variant forms), and a much better one, so I like to call it "Challoners version". Alas, too many Catholics do not recognise Bp. Challoner`s name, so one is stuck with the longer form of name.

The inter-influence of the A.V. and the Challoner Bibles is a marvel and both Anglicans and Catholics mutually benefitted each others` work on the English Bible.
To be honest I make no secret of the fact that I like the (original) Rheims-Douai over Bishop Challoner’s version. The latter almost seems too much of a ‘Catholicized’ KJV to me. Not that there’s anything wrong with that mind you, but I’m just in the minority which likes all the big words and fidelity to the source text over readability (something which the original translators thought was the problem with translations in their day: the attempts to make the text more readable “[restrained] the sense of the holy Ghost to [their] phantasie.”
 
… and fidelity to the source text over readability (something which the original translators thought was the problem with translations in their day: the attempts to make the text more readable “[restrained] the sense of the holy Ghost to [their] phantasie.”
I always read several translation side by side when something seems either problematic or even suspicious. Currently I use KJV + Young’s Literal Translation plus Text Receptus when New Testament is under study. I also read several different commentaries (like Henry’s) to see if they can open up the text to me. Naturally I don’t accept anything easily - recardles of the source. To Err is Human!
One of Devil’s weapons is “Divide et Impera!”
We Believers are separated by the Scripture interpretation
while we should be united by the Spirit
May God help us in Jesus name, Amen!
 
I always read several translation side by side when something seems either problematic or even suspicious. Currently I use KJV + Young’s Literal Translation plus Text Receptus when New Testament is under study. I also read several different commentaries (like Henry’s) to see if they can open up the text to me. Naturally I don’t accept anything easily - recardles of the source. To Err is Human!
One of Devil’s weapons is “Divide et Impera!”
We Believers are separated by the Scripture interpretation
while we should be united by the Spirit
May God help us in Jesus name, Amen!
I will again be honest and say that I’m one of those Christians that don’t open up their Bibles and read them as often as they should 😊, but very often nowadays I tend to use the ESV when quoting something. When I look at a passage nowadays I often use Young’s, sometimes alongside a Nestle-Aland Greek NT (27th edition).

Young’s is a fairly good ultra-literal translation IMHO, although it does have a number of drawbacks, one of which is the fact that the translation for the same phrase or sentence could and does vary between each book (case in point: the Synoptics). And there’s also the NT being translated from the Textus Receptus, which could make things a bit confusing especially if you’re like me who use something like the NA, which is an eclectic text.
 
Newman continued to use the A.V. (K.J.V.) Bible because it was superior, even though the alternative, a much better one, at the time (and still now) was the Douay-Rheims-Challoner Version
Now this is exciting news to me, having come into the Catholic Church through the Anglican door myself, and with a great appreciation for the King James Version. If the KJV was good enough for Cardinal Newman…
 
Ephesians 3 from the Rheims NT (spelling modernized):

For this cause, I Paul the prisoner of JESUS Christ, for you Gentiles: if yet you have heard the dispensation of the grace of God, which is given me toward you, because according to revelation the sacrament was made known to me, as I have written before in brief: according as you reading may understand my wisdom in the mystery of Christ, which unto other generations was not known to the sons of men, as now it is revealed to his holy Apostles and Prophets in the Spirit. The Gentiles to be co-heirs and concorporate and comparticipant of his promise in Christ JESUS by the Gospel: whereof I am made a minister according to the gift of the grace of God, which is given me according to the operation of his power. To me the least of all the saints is given this grace, among the Gentiles to evangelize the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to illuminate all men what is the dispensation of the sacrament hidden from worlds Notes: ἀπὸ τῶν αἰώνων / That is, for ever before.] in God, who created all things: that the manifold wisdom of God, may be notified to the Princes and Potestates in the celestials by the Church, according to the prefinition of worlds Note: That is, the eternal prefinition.], which he made in Christ Jesus our Lord. In whom we have affiance and access in confidence, by the faith of him. Note: The Epistle upon the 16 Sunday after Pentecost.] For the which cause I desire that you faint not in my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord JESUS Christ, of whom all paternity in the heavens and in earth is named, that he give you according to the riches of his glory, power to be fortified by his Spirit in the inner man. Christ to dwell by faith in your hearts Note: Christ dwelleth in us by his gifts, and we be just by those his gifts remaining and resident in us, and not by Christ’s proper justice only, as the Heretics affirm.], rooted and founded in charity Note: Not faith only must be in us, but charity which accomplisheth all virtues.], that you may be able to comprehend with all the saints, what is the breadth, and length, and height, and depth, to know also the charity of Christ, surpassing knowledge, that you may be filled unto all the fullness of God. And to him that is able to do all things more abundantly than we desire or understand, according to the power that worketh in us: to him be glory in the CHURCH, and in Christ JESUS, unto all generations world without end. Amen.

The King James Version:

For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God, which is given me to youward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery, (as I wrote afore Note: Or, a little before.] in few words,
4 Whereby when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy Apostles and Prophets by the Spirit,
6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ, by the Gospel:
7 Whereof I was made a Minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me, by the effectual working of his power.
8 Unto me, who am less then the least of all Saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
9 And to make all men see, what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world, hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places, might be known by the church, the manifold wisdom of God,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access, with confidence, by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might, by his Spirit in the inner man,
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith, that ye being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all Saints, what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height:
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
21 Unto him be glory in the Church by Christ Jesus, throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Challoner:

1 For this cause, I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ, for you Gentiles:
2 If yet you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me towards you:
3 How that, according to revelation, the mystery has been made known to me, as I have written above in a few words:
4 As you reading, may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ,
5 Which in other generations was not known to the sons of men, as it is now revealed to his holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit:
6 That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs and of the same body: and copartners of his promise in Christ Jesus, by the gospel,
7 Of which I am made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God, which is given to me according to the operation of his power.
8 To me, the least of all the saints, is given this grace, to preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ:
9 And to enlighten all men, that they may see what is the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God who created all things:
10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church,
11 According to the eternal purpose which he made in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I pray you not to faint at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom all paternity in heaven and earth is named:
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened by his Spirit with might unto the inward man:
17 That Christ may dwell by faith in your hearts: that, being rooted and founded in charity,
18 You may be able to comprehend, with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth,
19 To know also the charity of Christ, which surpasseth all knowledge: that you may be filled unto all the fulness of God.
20 Now to him who is able to do all things more abundantly than we desire or understand, according to the power that worketh in us:
21 To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus, unto all generations, world without end. Amen.
 
As I said before, i invite you to prove your assertion. The documents I posted above regarding the Council of Trent says no such thing. You also forget that 99% of the protestant Bibles were not even in existence at the time of the Council of Trent. So, I look forward to reading your proof.
you proved my assertion for me in posting the Trent documents, it states specifically what books the Bible has, if your bible has any less than that list does, then your bible isnt really a bible at all. so i thank you for proving my point.
 
you proved my assertion for me in posting the Trent documents, it states specifically what books the Bible has, if your bible has any less than that list does, then your bible isnt really a bible at all. so i thank you for proving my point.
Okay, but reading the books contained within isn’t heretical. They are recognized books by the Church.
 
Okay, but reading the books contained within isn’t heretical. They are recognized books by the Church.
That’s exactly my Point as well 🙂 All the books in the protestant translations are on the list of books recognized by the Church. So where’s the problem?
 
you proved my assertion for me in posting the Trent documents, it states specifically what books the Bible has, if your bible has any less than that list does, then your bible isnt really a bible at all. so i thank you for proving my point.
So if I am carrying a DR new testament, I am not carrying a Catholic Bible?
 
The King James Version originally had those seven books, and that edition is still available. Perhaps we should thank you for shooting down your own argument.
 
The King James Version originally had those seven books, and that edition is still available. Perhaps we should thank you for shooting down your own argument.
Yes, yes it does have 80 books.

  1. *]I. Esdras
    *]II. Esdras
    *]Tobit
    *]Ivdeth
    *]The rest of the Chapters of the Booke of Esther, which are found neither in the Hebrew, nor in the Calde
    *]The Wisedome of Solomon
    *]The Wisdome of Iesus the sonne of Sirach, Or Ecclesiasticus
    *]Baruch (with The Epistle of Ieremie)
    *]The Song of the three holy children, vvhich follovveth in the third Chapter of Daniel after this place, [And they walked in the midst of the fire, praising God, and blessing the Lord.] That which followeth is not in the Hebrew; to wit, [Then Azarias stood vp] vnto these wordes, [And Nabuchodonosor.]
    ]The historie of Susanna, set apart from the beginning of Daniel, because it is not in Hebrew, as neither the narration of †Bel and the Dragon † Gr. Bels Dragon]
    ]The history of the destruction of †Bel and the Dragon † Gr. Bels Dragon], cut off from the end of Daniel

    *]The prayer of Manasses King of Iuda, vvhen he vvas holden captiue in Babylon
    *]The first booke of the Maccabees
    *]The second booke of the Maccabees
 
The King James Version originally had those seven books, and that edition is still available. Perhaps we should thank you for shooting down your own argument.
wrong my friend, i stated that if a King James version is missing those seven books, which includes them being separated and relegated to apocryphal, then that KJV is heretical, and as to all the other arguments that state all the books in the bible are in protestant translations. The seven books, otherwise known as dueterocanonical books, were removed by Martin Luther from the position of Sacred Scripture, meaning they are not recognized as an official part of the Bible, and are relegated to the “Apocrypha”. So, the Protestant Bible is not just a translation, but an entirely different forgery crafted by Martin Luther.
 

Wings wrote: *I would like to get that translation. I don’t like Good News at all. The NRSV: Catholic Version was one recommended by a nun to me (partially because of some of its Student Bible footnotes). I actually do like the New American Bible, but it is also what is used for readings at Mass where I am located, so that could be why it sounds normal to me. *​

Whew! That`s better! There is little reason-to-be for the N.A.B. paraphrase here in the Dominion of Canada. It has little official encouragement. The liturgically sanctioned English Bible is the N.R.S.V. (Catholic Edition). In the U.K. the liturgically-used version is the Jerusalem Bible in the Catholic Truth Society improved edition of it.
The NAB/RE is far from a paraphrase, the Jerusalem Bible is a much more ‘dynamic’ translation than the NAB/RE.
 
Here in Japan, Catholics and Protestants use the exact same Bible version, the SHIN KYOUDOUYAKU SEISHO (Japanese New Interconfessional Translation Bible). It is the Bible officially read in mass. When I left the Anglican Church and became a Catholic I did not have to buy a new Bible.

It is available with or without the Deuterocanonicals. They do not distinguish between the words “Deuterocanonical” and “Apocrypha” in Japanese. The Deuterocanonicals are placed between the Old and New Testament, which is unfortunate and awkward for reading, but nobody has called it heretical.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_New_Interconfessional_Translation_Bible
 
Daizies, the complete list of the documents from the council of trent are on ewtn.com, you are looking for "The Ten Rules Concerning Prohibited Books Drawn up by the Fathers chosen by The Council Of Trent.
 
as to a question asked earlier, i am very certain that i have the original Douay Rheims translation, straight from the Latin Vulgate.
 
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