Catholics who read Protestant Bibles

[Jerry_Parker]

**Jerry-Jet and Russ wrote: Jerry-Jet: The Confraternity New Testament is available at the gift shop of EWTN. **​

Russ: *I have and love the Confraternity New Testament as well. Oddly enough I never spent much time with the RSV until after I joined the Catholic Church!

That raccoon actually ate most of my Bible and left part of it for behind me, but who would want to carry a half-eaten clawed-up Bible to Church?. He started at the back and worked his way towards the front, which is perplexing since of all the books in the Bible, Revelation must be the hardest to digest. *​

Well, the Book of Job is an hard meal to digest, too. I wonder if the raccoon`s tummy-ache from that one “going down the hatch” stomach-bound!

Is that Confraternity N.T. sold at the Eternal Word gift shop the paperbound one that, as I recall, TAN Books publishes? It is quite a nice thing to have, but it is larger than the pocket-size Confraternity N.T.s that I was recalling earlier, to big to fit in many pants` pockets (but maybe in a coat pocket). The Confraternity (1941) N.T. is the only version from the 1940s onwards that I really trust (aside from some dubious notes, though, of course, not those of a doctrinal nature); all of the other modern Bible versions and paraphrases are beset with all kinds of problems in their textual basis and in choices that the translators or paraphrasers have made.

 

[preppyboy6]

TO everyone on this site.

I would truly prefer if you did not mention my age as any factor, what you need to understand is that i am confirmed, which makes me an adult within the Church, i realize that many of you disagree with me on my point that the protestant bible is heretical. I retain that point as a statement of fact, i have reasearched the matter thouroughly, and by the way, nobody needs to ask the pope, as Pope Pius was asked in the 1540’s and he proclaimed the protestant bible as anathaema, and you should all know as Catholics, that the Bible is certainly a matter of Faith and Morals, and you should all understand that the Pope is infallible when teaching about faith and morals. Therefore, by Papal decree, my point is both theologically and factualy solid.

 

[Jerry_Parker]

Preppy Boy wrote:* I would truly prefer if you did not mention my age as any factor, what you need to understand is that i am confirmed, which makes me an adult within the Church, i realize that many of you disagree with me on my point that the protestant bible is heretical. I retain that point as a statement of fact, i have reasearched the matter thouroughly, and by the way, nobody needs to ask the pope, as Pope Pius was asked in the 1540’s and he proclaimed the protestant bible as anathaema, and you should all know as Catholics, that the Bible is certainly a matter of Faith and Morals, and you should all understand that the Pope is infallible when teaching about faith and morals. Therefore, by Papal decree, my point is both theologically and factualy solid. *​

We are not angry at you, Preppy Boy. Those of us who have lived a lot longer than you simply know that youthful convictions often are based on only part of the evidence. Don`t forget, either, that many of those translations that Pius denounced are not among those which Catholics use today, among those produced under Protestant and, later, Oecumenical auspices. Those which, either at the time that they appeared or as added later, include the Apocrypha do not incur the condemnation of not being incomplete.

Dont take yourself so seriously and pontificate so tiresomely. You have made your point, for what it is worth, over and over and over, and there really does not seem to be much left for you to say. Youve said it, we listen, but it is up to us to think what we will about these matters. Do you want to grow up to be an inquisitor? That role these days is one that the Fundamentalist sectaries love to exercise against Catholics and others! It is inappropriate to to hector your elders, too, and what adult will take seriously a teenage incipient bully, however much he is entitled to his own opinions?

 

[Russ_of_Tokyo]

Yeah, lighten up, Preppy BOY! Don’t take opposing views so personal! You may have done a lot of research but you’re still a kid, which in this case is a point in your favor because the others here will give you a little slack because of it. Any adult who went on the defensive and started lashing out as you have done several times here would have been dismissed as a nut case.

Your rants remind me of that annoying young Elihu at the end of the indigestible book of Job (beginning at Chapter 32).

 

[HillbillyHermit]

I don’t know if it has already been mentioned, but Catholic Answers has a nice tract:
Bible Translations Guide

Catholic and Protestant translations are listed there, along with an explanation of literal and dynamic philosophies, their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[patrick457]

TO everyone on this site.

I would truly prefer if you did not mention my age as any factor, what you need to understand is that i am confirmed, which makes me an adult within the Church, i realize that many of you disagree with me on my point that the protestant bible is heretical. I retain that point as a statement of fact, i have reasearched the matter thouroughly, and by the way, nobody needs to ask the pope, as Pope Pius was asked in the 1540’s and he proclaimed the protestant bible as anathaema, and you should all know as Catholics, that the Bible is certainly a matter of Faith and Morals, and you should all understand that the Pope is infallible when teaching about faith and morals. Therefore, by Papal decree, my point is both theologically and factualy solid.

Preppy, you make me remember back when I was 15 (I’m going on 20 tomorrow). I’ve been in CAF for more than five years now; when I was your age I pretty much acted the same as you, although I’ll bet you’re more “on fire” than I ever was. I really laud your learning and your zeal for your faith, and the fact that you can speak with people older than you. But a few words of advice: first of all, zeal and knowledge are both good, but charity is the best - without it, you’re nothing but a clanging cymbal. That’s what St. Paul said, right? Second, do not ever fall for the “win an argument, lose a soul” pitfall. This is not a debate class, and it’s not about scoring points anyways. Third, don’t take things personally. I and the others may disagree with your opinion, but that doesn’t mean we personally hate you or anything. I know how it’s like to want to make your voice heard (hey, that’s what I’m afflicted with ), but as Jerry said, don’t take yourself too seriously - you can’t expect us to automatically agree with you after all. You’ve made your case, we choose to not agree with your interpretation: there is no need to pontificate and force-feed things down everyone’s throats. Where you see A, we read B, and I’m pretty sure someone else might find it to be C. Finally: “you can catch more flies with a spoonful of honey than with barrels of vinegar.”

You (and I and everyone else) have still have much to learn in life; I hope you would learn from your experience here. And I hope to see you again in another thread.

 

[patrick457]

Yeah, lighten up, Preppy BOY! Don’t take opposing views so personal! You may have done a lot of research but you’re still a kid, which in this case is a point in your favor because the others here will give you a little slack because of it. Any adult who went on the defensive and started lashing out as you have done several times here would have been dismissed as a nut case.

Your rants remind me of that annoying young Elihu at the end of the indigestible book of Job (beginning at Chapter 32).

The funny thing about it is that the people who claim to stand up for God and try to defend His actions against Job’s rants and complaints end up being in the wrong: God takes Job’s side over against his friends and condemns them. Almost as if God was saying, “look who I have to defend me!” I believe it’s a good lesson for the rest of us.

 

[preppyboy6]

Preppy Boy wrote:* I would truly prefer if you did not mention my age as any factor, what you need to understand is that i am confirmed, which makes me an adult within the Church, i realize that many of you disagree with me on my point that the protestant bible is heretical. I retain that point as a statement of fact, i have reasearched the matter thouroughly, and by the way, nobody needs to ask the pope, as Pope Pius was asked in the 1540’s and he proclaimed the protestant bible as anathaema, and you should all know as Catholics, that the Bible is certainly a matter of Faith and Morals, and you should all understand that the Pope is infallible when teaching about faith and morals. Therefore, by Papal decree, my point is both theologically and factualy solid. *​

We are not angry at you, Preppy Boy. Those of us who have lived a lot longer than you simply know that youthful convictions often are based on only part of the evidence. Don`t forget, either, that many of those translations that Pius denounced are not among those which Catholics use today, among those produced under Protestant and, later, Oecumenical auspices. Those which, either at the time that they appeared or as added later, include the Apocrypha do not incur the condemnation of not being incomplete.

Dont take yourself so seriously and pontificate so tiresomely. You have made your point, for what it is worth, over and over and over, and there really does not seem to be much left for you to say. Youve said it, we listen, but it is up to us to think what we will about these matters. Do you want to grow up to be an inquisitor? That role these days is one that the Fundamentalist sectaries love to exercise against Catholics and others! It is inappropriate to to hector your elders, too, and what adult will take seriously a teenage incipient bully, however much he is entitled to his own opinions?

My friend, obviously my point has not been made clearly enough. It isnt up to you to think what you will. The Church made a determination, and now you can either have faith in that determination made by the church, and follow it, or you can be a cafeteria Catholic who is also a heretic, i hope you take the first option. By the way, you missed another thing, within the Church, i am an adult, not a kid, or a youthful child, an adult. In other, simpler words, i am on the same level as you.

 

[preppyboy6]

Preppy, you make me remember back when I was 15 (I’m going on 20 tomorrow). I’ve been in CAF for more than five years now; when I was your age I pretty much acted the same as you, although I’ll bet you’re more “on fire” than I ever was. I really laud your learning and your zeal for your faith, and the fact that you can speak with people older than you. But a few words of advice: first of all, zeal and knowledge are both good, but charity is the best - without it, you’re nothing but a clanging cymbal. That’s what St. Paul said, right? Second, do not ever fall for the “win an argument, lose a soul” pitfall. This is not a debate class, and it’s not about scoring points anyways. Third, don’t take things personally. I and the others may disagree with your opinion, but that doesn’t mean we personally hate you or anything. I know how it’s like to want to make your voice heard (hey, that’s what I’m afflicted with ), but as Jerry said, don’t take yourself too seriously - you can’t expect us to automatically agree with you after all. You’ve made your case, we choose to not agree with your interpretation: there is no need to pontificate and force-feed things down everyone’s throats. Where you see A, we read B, and I’m pretty sure someone else might find it to be C. Finally: “you can catch more flies with a spoonful of honey than with barrels of vinegar.”

You (and I and everyone else) have still have much to learn in life; I hope you would learn from your experience here. And I hope to see you again in another thread.

Guess what buddy, you will keep seeing me here until you understand that what i’m saying isnt an interperetation, The Council of Trent was crystal clear in what it said, i am simply stating the truth, if you “Choose to not agree” with me in this case, it will make you a heretic, consider carefully your choice. because it was all of you who chose to argue with me, not the other way around.

 

[HillbillyHermit]

I think maybe some people could use a break from this topic. It would be wise to let calm heads prevail and not refer to someone who disagrees with you as a heretic.

:tsktsk:

 

[Andromedus]

I have a catholic friend who has many influential protestant family members/friends. Also, this same catholic friend reads out of a protestant bible instead of a catholic bible. He believes there is no difference and that the protestant and catholic bible are both one in the same, “the bible”.

Searching the internet, it seems opinions vary from one catholic to the next as to why catholics should only read a catholic bible, and why it is okay/not okay for catholics to read primarily from a protestant bible.

There are many opinions my friend has that are very protestant-esque, and I know some of the influences comes from his protestant family, but I’m curious if it also comes from the protestant bible he reads.

In my opinion, I find protestant bibles dangerous since men interpreted specific scripture to fit their personal belief structure.

Can you please shed light on this topic? Is it okay for catholics to own a protestant bible if it is the only bible in their house? Thanks for your help!

I read most of the time a Protestant Bible (there was Catholics involved in the translation though) for the simple reason that there are no Catholic Bibles in Swedish and even if I can read English Bibles it is not the same thing as reading it in your mother tongue. Valid reason? When I read English Bibles however it is The CTS New Catholic Bible and the Bible at newadvent.org which I think is the Douay-Rheims Bible, please correct me if I am wrong. However, I don’t think it is so dangerous to read Protestant Bibles.

 

[CyberAngel]

I’m super heretic
since I often read a bible with only the New Testament and Psalms

He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at me.

 

[Russ_of_Tokyo]

By the way, you missed another thing, within the Church, i am an adult, not a kid, or a youthful child, an adult. In other, simpler words, i am on the same level as you.

Hmmm… If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

 

[patrick457]

Guess what buddy, you will keep seeing me here until you understand that what i’m saying isnt an interperetation, The Council of Trent was crystal clear in what it said, i am simply stating the truth, if you “Choose to not agree” with me in this case, it will make you a heretic, consider carefully your choice. because it was all of you who chose to argue with me, not the other way around.

Good. If you want to be treated as an adult, then you will be treated as such, if that’s what you want.

Now first off. Is it really about what Trent said, or what YOU think Trent said? Second, who made you a judge over our souls? And finally, how can you be so sure that YOU are right and we are wrong?

 

[patrick457]

Hmmm… If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I rest my case.

If he so wants to ‘win’ this argument and condemn us as horrible heretics we can let him have the award. But the question is: did this whole debate really benefit anyone here? “Win an argument, lose a soul” indeed.

I still believe in him and hope that he will improve and learn more (don’ underestimate him just because he’s a kid; being young doesn’t mean that he’s not able to teach us something), but I just feel we’re going in circles here. ‘Sides, me disli’ debates an’ is not able ta stan’ them long. So no, wish I can play further but this arch-heretic will remove himself from the discussion.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

TO everyone on this site.

I would truly prefer if you did not mention my age as any factor, what you need to understand is that i am confirmed, which makes me an adult within the Church, i realize that many of you disagree with me on my point that the protestant bible is heretical. I retain that point as a statement of fact, i have reasearched the matter thouroughly, and by the way, nobody needs to ask the pope, as Pope Pius was asked in the 1540’s and he proclaimed the protestant bible as anathaema, and you should all know as Catholics, that the Bible is certainly a matter of Faith and Morals, and you should all understand that the Pope is infallible when teaching about faith and morals. Therefore, by Papal decree, my point is both theologically and factualy solid.

Yes you are an adult – if only my wife would recognize that about my sons who are confirmed!

Pope Pius was not speaking Ex-Cathedra as far as I know. The only strong argument that could be made is to argue from the constant teaching of the church – and that’s going to be hard to do since the protestant versions of the bible don’t go back far enough to have been condemned for all time.

There are certainly versions of the bible which are arguably heretical – for example, Luther’s which was edited to say “by faith alone” where it is not said in any of the ancient texts.

Look again: Perhaps Pius is speaking of specific versions ?
A link to his statement would be beneficial to all of us.

But, none of the versions of the bible which are actually collections of the original Greek can be condemned. I don’t even recall Trent unilaterally doing so when they had the opportunity – Surely It did not condemn the Greek source documents that protestants were translating from. (Not to mention that the KJV is translated from a Catholic recension!!! T.R. Stephanus).

Trent merely affirmed that the Latin Vulgate was inerrant – and this is in spite of Protestant complaints that it differed from their source texts. But even the Vulgate has been edited since Trent because of translational mistakes and still receives an imprimatur in edited form.

Since Protestant - English translations are not submitted to Catholic Bishops – they often don’t receive a review at all. However, (for example) the RSV-CE (The NRSV is out of scope) which is a Protestant & Catholic co-work … has the Imprimatur because it was reviewed. Therefore, at least some protestant bibles are not heretical.

Anathema means “another theme”; It means heretical in the sense of being a “variation” of the Christian faith – but that’s not the same as condemning someone as a heretic and a damned person. Such a judgment is reserved to the bishop and to individual cases. It’s not right for anyone to attempt to take the bishop’s place in making the judgment itself.

I can see stating something carefully, such as: " You are in danger of being proclaimed a heretic!" or “I believe you are in danger…”, but not the stronger statement “you ARE a heretic.” etc.

The list of banned books, which includes some versions of protestant bibles, was retired some years ago. Even then, when it was merely asked for, permission was granted to read protestant variations of the bible.

Effective Apologetic often requires that one reads these versions so that one can effectively argue with non-Catholics who are myopic about particular phrasings of scripture.

For this reason (and no other), I tend to use the KJV in apologetic; but only to support Catholic teaching – and it isn’t such a bad translation that doing this is impossible.

An apologetic which works with many versions of the bible is a valuable thing to have. Each of us is called to witness according to our ability and to give answer; but one can’t answer – unless they clearly know the questions.

Non Catholics are found all over CAF – it isn’t possible that discussion of other bible versions will be avoided; because of this – I like to expose other texts and show they DO support catholic teaching in spite of their flaws.

This, I believe, helps Catholics and non Catholics alike to appreciate the wisdom of Catholic Teaching. It is also a way to build up immunity of the poorly educated Catholic against anti-catholic attacks from these sources.
Often these attacks are merely ignorance on the part of those outside the church – curing it and fishing for men, is the purpose of apologetic.

Your brother in Christ, Jesus.
–Andrew.

 

[patrick457]

Yes you are an adult – if only my wife would recognize that about my sons who are confirmed!

Pope Pius was not speaking Ex-Cathedra as far as I know. The only strong argument that could be made is to argue from the constant teaching of the church – and that’s going to be hard to do since the protestant versions of the bible don’t go back far enough to have been condemned for all time.

There are certainly versions of the bible which are arguably heretical – for example, Luther’s which was edited to say “by faith alone” where it is not said in any of the ancient texts.

Look again: Perhaps Pius is speaking of specific versions ?
A link to his statement would be beneficial to all of us.

But, none of the versions of the bible which are actually collections of the original Greek can be condemned. I don’t even recall Trent unilaterally doing so when they had the opportunity – Surely It did not condemn the Greek source documents that protestants were translating from. (Not to mention that the KJV is translated from a Catholic recension!!! T.R. Stephanus).

Trent merely affirmed that the Latin Vulgate was inerrant – and this is in spite of Protestant complaints that it differed from their source texts. But even the Vulgate has been edited since Trent because of translational mistakes and still receives an imprimatur in edited form.

Since Protestant - English translations are not submitted to Catholic Bishops – they often don’t receive a review at all. However, (for example) the RSV-CE (The NRSV is out of scope) which is a Protestant & Catholic co-work … has the Imprimatur because it was reviewed. Therefore, at least some protestant bibles are not heretical.

Anathema means “another theme”; It means heretical in the sense of being a “variation” of the Christian faith – but that’s not the same as condemning someone as a heretic and a damned person. Such a judgment is reserved to the bishop and to individual cases. It’s not right for anyone to attempt to take the bishop’s place in making the judgment itself.

I can see stating something carefully, such as: " You are in danger of being proclaimed a heretic!" or “I believe you are in danger…”, but not the stronger statement “you ARE a heretic.” etc.

The list of banned books, which includes some versions of protestant bibles, was retired some years ago. Even then, when it was merely asked for, permission was granted to read protestant variations of the bible.

Effective Apologetic often requires that one reads these versions so that one can effectively argue with non-Catholics who are myopic about particular phrasings of scripture.

For this reason (and no other), I tend to use the KJV in apologetic; but only to support Catholic teaching – and it isn’t such a bad translation that doing this is impossible.

An apologetic which works with many versions of the bible is a valuable thing to have. Each of us is called to witness according to our ability and to give answer; but one can’t answer – unless they clearly know the questions.

Non Catholics are found all over CAF – it isn’t possible that discussion of other bible versions will be avoided; because of this – I like to expose other texts and show they DO support catholic teaching in spite of their flaws.

This, I believe, helps Catholics and non Catholics alike to appreciate the wisdom of Catholic Teaching. It is also a way to build up immunity of the poorly educated Catholic against anti-catholic attacks from these sources.
Often these attacks are merely ignorance on the part of those outside the church – curing it and fishing for men, is the purpose of apologetic.

Your brother in Christ, Jesus.
–Andrew.

Now this is a good reply.

 

[CyberAngel]

There are certainly versions of the bible which are arguably heretical – for example, Luther’s which was edited to say “by faith alone” where it is not said in any of the ancient texts.
x
Your brother in Christ, Jesus.
–Andrew.

You mean like this (using 1899 DRB) :

*Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.
Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory. *

add this:

Jas 2:15 And if a brother or sister be naked and want daily food:
Jas 2:16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit?
Jas 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

Teaching (of mine and I believe that I have the gift of the Holy Spirit) :

We are saved by fate alone
that is - we believe about the Gospel, Jesus Christ died on cross and resurrected
BUT
this is important!
If we don’t produce good fruit, if we don’t show Love, we are not really Christians
(or at least not quite yet)

*Luk 13:7 And he said to the dresser of the vineyard: Behold, for these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree and I find none. Cut it down therefore. Why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 But he answering, said to him: Lord, let it alone this year also, until I dig about it and dung it.
Luk 13:9 And if happily it bear fruit: but if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. *

---

You may freely add more verses and more teaching at will

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I have and love the Confraternity New Testament as well. Oddly enough I never spent much time with the RSV until after I joined the Catholic Church!

That raccoon actually ate most of my Bible and left part of it for behind me, but who would want to carry a half-eaten clawed-up Bible to Church?.

I missed something… Raccoons – in Tokyo ??? Godzilla move over…

He started at the back and worked his way towards the front, which is perplexing since of all the books in the Bible, Revelation must be the hardest to digest.

:doh2:

 

[Huiou_Theou]

You mean like this (using 1899 DRB) :

*Eph 2:8 For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God.
Eph 2:9 Not of works, that no man may glory. *

add this:

Jas 2:15 And if a brother or sister be naked and want daily food:
Jas 2:16 And one of you say to them: Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; yet give them not those things that are necessary for the body, what shall it profit?
Jas 2:17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself.

Well, I was thinking more ancient than the 1890’s… but yes, “faith alone” isn’t in the DRB either…