Catholics who reject Church authority--what to do with 'em?

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What do you think should happen? I mean, you say “should these people bother to stay” but it’s not like an outside party can do anything about their choice to come or go. Your poll talks about a person’s own actions, and then you ask what should happen to them, which implies another person taking an action. Exactly what do you think should happen to someone who doesn’t accept every single thing coming out of the Magisterium?
Hello Rence,

Fair enough.

As I clarified a few posts back, I intended to ask in my OP what action such a Catholic should take, not so much what we should do. I know there was a disagreement with that posts’ wording, and the poll.

In any case, even if no one can do anything about a such Catholic’s decision to go or stay, the answer still holds relevance for the individual, his immediate community, and ultimately the Church community.

I’m still pondering the matter. IMO rejecting minor Magisterial teachings isn’t so problematic as rejecting Magisterial authority. If one won’t accept the latter, I don’t see much point for him to stay.
 
Hello Rence,

IMO rejecting minor Magisterial teachings isn’t so problematic as rejecting Magisterial authority. If one won’t accept the latter, I don’t see much point for him to stay.
Interesting distinction. I accept and believe in Magisterial authority; but if I don’t accept 100% of their teachings, I am accused of being a dissident and not in communion with the Church. Any advice?
 
Hello Rence,

Fair enough.

As I clarified a few posts back, I intended to ask in my OP what action such a Catholic should take, not so much what we should do. I know there was a disagreement with that posts’ wording, and the poll.

In any case, even if no one can do anything about a such Catholic’s decision to go or stay, the answer still holds relevance for the individual, his immediate community, and ultimately the Church community.

I’m still pondering the matter. IMO rejecting minor Magisterial teachings isn’t so problematic as rejecting Magisterial authority. If one won’t accept the latter, I don’t see much point for him to stay.
It’s still up to the individual what to do about it. If they still find a home in the Church, they should stay and work through their issues. If they don’t want to stay because they have found Christ in another religion, then they should go and work on their spiritual relationship with Christ. But I don’t think the Church heirarchy wants anyone to leave. They would want them to work through their issues and nurture their relationship with God, since Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the recipient, making them Catholic forever no matter whether they stay or leave. The Church still tries to impose Canon law on them even if they formally leave, regardless of whether they reject it or not. So what’s the point of leaving, unless you have somewhere else to go?
 
A persons relationship with the Church, or with God for that matter, if nobody elses business. We are not supposed to be judging anyone, but it seems that most humans go out of their way to attempt to judge the religious merits of others.

Since none of us has any authority to excommunicate another person, we really do not have any voice in this matter.

It was Jesus himself that told us, “He who is without sin, cast the first stone”. So, why are so many “so called Christians”, so very ready to cast verbal stones at each other?
👍
 
Ostracizing them would be disgraceful. We should pray for them, invite them into our homes, share Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition with them, and lead them deeper into faith by our own example.
 
Personally I dis this whole idea of excommunication. I dont mean to say anything against the Church, but I do think this is also a form of judging.
 
The most recent poll on Catholics reveals that more Catholics believe that abortion and same-sex marriage is o.k., obedience to the Magisterium is not necessary, and that Sunday Mass attendance is not essential. These stats are very disturbing to say the least. The majority of Catholics now fall into a group that can be accurately identified as “moral relativists”. Where have “we” failed? Poor catechesis, outside influences? 25% even responded that the Resurrection wasn’t a primary factor of their Catholic faith. What??? It’s clear that something needs to be done to reach out to them and engage them in practicing their faith authentically. We should never give up.
 
The most recent poll on Catholics reveals that more Catholics believe that abortion and same-sex marriage is o.k., obedience to the Magisterium is not necessary, and that Sunday Mass attendance is not essential. These stats are very disturbing to say the least. The majority of Catholics now fall into a group that can be accurately identified as “moral relativists”. Where have “we” failed? Poor catechesis, outside influences? 25% even responded that the Resurrection wasn’t a primary factor of their Catholic faith. What??? It’s clear that something needs to be done to reach out to them and engage them in practicing their faith authentically. We should never give up.
It’s their right to disbelieve. We can pray as others suggested and thats probably only what we can do.

IMO we also need to respect them to not talk about religion with them if they choose not to.
 
If our brother or sister is in sin, to show them the truth in love is not judging. If everyone walks on egg shells, never telling anyone what they are doing is wrong, nobody would ever learn anything.
 
catholicism.org/judging-others.html

Slogans are what often pass as Protestant substitutes for dogma. Nor is the disease of sloganizing confined exclusively to Protestants. Many Catholics, foolishly supposing association with heresy to be harmless, have been infected by it and are constantly reducing the true dogma of the Church, as well as extracts from Holy Scripture, to the force of mere slogans. One of the favorite quotations of these liberal Catholics is, “Judge not,” probably the most maligned of all Scriptural quotations. Judge not, they say, that Protestants are insincere or that anyone outside the Church is bad-willed, and don’t even suggest that a person might go to hell.

But how many of the people who use this quotation so glibly have read it in context? Probably very few. Otherwise it is hard to see how they could make such a diabolically perverse interpretation. The text is from the last part of the Sermon on the Mount (Matt. VII, 1). Just a few verses farther on Our Lord tells us not to cast our pearls before swine. How are we to obey this commandment unless we judge which men are swine? And again in the same chapter Our Lord says, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” How are we to beware of these false prophets unless we first judge them to be so? Next Our Lord says, “By their fruits you shall know them.” Would he give us the means for judging if He wanted us not to judge? There are many paradoxes in the Bible, but no contradictions.

Obviously, then, the interpretation given, “Judge not,” by the liberal Catholics is wrong, as they themselves well know, for in practice they realize the impossibility of going through life without making judgments. For instance, they seem to have no qualms about judging us for judging.

But what does the text mean? It is concerned with spreading the faith. It means that we should not refrain from presenting the faith to someone because we judge him to be unable to accept it or because we judge him not to need it. If we judge others as not needing the faith we shall be judged as not having it ourselves, and shall thus be condemned: “For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged.” The next passage is an amplification of this: “And why seest thou the mote which is in thy brother’s eye, and seest thou not the beam which is in thy own eye?” When we assume that others are unable to take the faith it is apt to be because our own faith is weak, and we are attributing to them the faults which really lie in us.

Thus Our Lord anticipates any excuses we may offer for not spreading the faith, such as, “Oh, but he really is a good man and I’m sure he’ll get into heaven without being a Catholic,” or, “I know he wouldn’t become a Catholic even if I told him he should, so I won’t bother.” Our Lord will not allow us to manufacture our own weakness and cowardice into an excuse for not presenting the faith to all whom we meet. We cannot hide our light under a bushel; we cannot bury our talent in a field. Our very salvation depends upon our zeal in spreading the faith. Our Lord says, “For he that shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him the Son of man shall be ashamed, when he shall come in his majesty, and that of his Father, and of the holy angels.”

Nor can we be excused by saying, “Yes, I know that we must spread the faith, but I try to show others that they should be Catholics by good example rather than by admonition.” This is only another manifestation of cowardice. It is, furthermore, unspeakable pride. It is offering one’s own life as the challenge rather than the faith in its pure doctrine. We should not try to convince non-Catholics that we as individuals lead blameless lives, but rather that the Church has the truth. And we hope that they may become better Catholics than we are.

But what of the man to whom the faith has been presented and who has clearly shown himself to be bad-willed? Such men we must judge to be evil and must have nothing more to do with them. These are the swine whom we are told not to cast our pearls before. St. Paul says, “A man that is a heretic, after the first and second admonition, avoid: knowing that he, that is such an one, is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned by his own judgment.”

If we are to preserve our faith we must know our enemies. The greatest enemy of the Catholic Church today is not Communism, as many suppose. It is heresy — Protestantism. Protestantism permitted and sustains Communism. To attack the Communists involves no danger, because they are unpopular with almost everyone in this country. But it requires courage to attack the real enemy, Protestantism. Still it must be done if we are to save our own souls and the souls of those Protestants of good-will who would come into the Church if a sufficiently strong challenge were presented and a sharp line drawn between the Church and its enemies.

And let us not be afraid of calling the Protestants names. Nothing is so useful in removing surface cordiality. In this day of weakened faith name-calling is considered impolite. Very well, let it be so. Politeness is not one of the cardinal virtues. Our Lord and His apostles called heretics children of malediction, slaves of corruption, scoffers, lying teachers, deceitful workmen transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ, raging waves of the sea foaming out their own confusion, the dog returned to his vomit, the sow wallowing in the mire.

We who have the love of Our Lord and Our Lady and who want good-willed Protestants to share in that love must make clear our challenge. Let us abandon our fears of offending, while we work for the glory of God and the salvation of souls. Let us make the enemies of Our Lord and Our Lady our enemies.
 
It’s still up to the individual what to do about it.
I never said he had to leave.
If they still find a home in the Church, they should stay and work through their issues. If they don’t want to stay because they have found Christ in another religion, then they should go and work on their spiritual relationship with Christ.
Clarification – my response assumes that they’ve gone through all that and failed.
But I don’t think the Church heirarchy wants anyone to leave. They would want them to work through their issues and nurture their relationship with God, since Baptism leaves an indelible mark on the recipient, making them Catholic forever no matter whether they stay or leave. The Church still tries to impose Canon law on them even if they formally leave, regardless of whether they reject it or not.
There’s no argument there: from the Church’s perspective, you can run, but you can’t leave. But I’m not so much concerned with what the Church should do, as much as what doubting individuals should do.
So what’s the point of leaving, unless you have somewhere else to go?
That assumes that you would need to join another religion, but some ex-Catholics are perfectly fine not affiliating with any formal religion.

But I imagine that for some, staying in the Church while rejecting a pretty major tenet would be dishonest–to oneself, to the community, and to the Church.
 
Interesting distinction. I accept and believe in Magisterial authority; but if I don’t accept 100% of their teachings, I am accused of being a dissident and not in communion with the Church. Any advice?
Cuss. 🙂

Not quite, but I can become very angry about individual accusations that a member’s not in communion with the Church. And even angrier, when one tries to excuse the accusation, that he’s just using, “What the Church actually says,” to justify his rude b@$^#*t.

Anyway, it’s best to not take it too personally. The real litmus test is not declaring how your beliefs are parallel to the church, but how you apply them on and off the forum.
 
Try giving them the Miraculous Medal.
Here is some important info about the Miraculous Medal, one of Blessed Mother Theresa’s favorites.

“Have a medal struck… All who wear it will receive GREAT graces; they should wear it
around the neck. GRACES will ABOUND for persons who wear it with CONFIDENCE.”
From the mother of Jesus spoken to sister Catherine Laboure 1830.

“Great graces are often attached to what seems trifling.” St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

“The devotions we practice in honor of the glorious Virgin Mary, however trifling they be,
are very pleasing to her divine Son, …” St. Teresa of Jesus

During this apparition, Mary’s hands had 3 rings on each finger. Each ring gave off
rays of colored light. A few rings did not. Mary said that the lights radiating from
the rings are graces that people ASK for. The rings that didn’t radiate she said
were graces not given because they were NOT asked for.

Wear her blessed miraculous medal. Then say, “Mary I am asking now for you to
obtain the great graces for me which you have promised to give to those who ask and
that have trust in you.” Trust her, it works. She is the mother of God.
Would she lie to us?
Her wish is especially for those in great need to have this. It is her gift to them.
Code:
 legionofmary.org/miracmedal.html
=============================================
“Yes, blessed is she who believed that the promise made her by the Lord would be fulfilled.”
(Lk. 1;45) St. Elizabeth
 
I never said he had to leave.

Clarification – my response assumes that they’ve gone through all that and failed.

There’s no argument there: from the Church’s perspective, you can run, but you can’t leave. But I’m not so much concerned with what the Church should do, as much as what doubting individuals should do.

That assumes that you would need to join another religion, but some ex-Catholics are perfectly fine not affiliating with any formal religion.

But I imagine that for some, staying in the Church while rejecting a pretty major tenet would be dishonest–to oneself, to the community, and to the Church.
Your post made me think that one really cant be living the proper Catholic life if they reject Church authority even on one matter. Firstly, we might be excommunicated if we commit heresy and secondly how is someone who rejects a belief going to take part in the Sacraments. If they receive communion without repenting they commit sacreliege and if they go to Confession they cant ommit what’s a mortal sin. That’s enough to single out the Catholics who reject the teachings, even if they’re not aware of committing sacriliege they plainly arent practicing the faith.
 
We must continue to correct charitably those who reject the teachings of the Church. We can never say that it is acceptable for a Catholic to leave the Church and find a “home” in another Christian church. As faithful Catholics we have an obligation to defend the teachings of the Church and to catechise those who misunderstand or disagree. Having a relationship with Christ means attending Mass. Many Catholics do not attend Mass and parents send children to CCD classes to receive the Sacraments but do not attend Mass as a family. The reception of the Sacraments has become a “Rite of Passage”. When we become our own god and decide for ourselves what is right or wrong we miss an opportunity to be in relationship with God.
 
They ought not to compound the sin of disobedience with the sin of perjury.
 
It’s their right to disbelieve. We can pray as others suggested and thats probably only what we can do.

IMO we also need to respect them to not talk about religion with them if they choose not to.
Back to what I said. Would any of you think we need to remind those who’ve rejected Church authority of their wrongs thru dialogue? I tend to ignore the topic once they show they’re not interested but is this a good idea in your opinion?
 
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