Catholics Will No Longer Recite 'And Also With You'

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VociMike said:
It’s from Isaiah. Search “rorate coeli”.
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:o Okay, but it sounds really weird as “dew”. Latin sounds important no matter what the word is you are using.
I will have to find that passage and its relevance to this.
I dont think kids will associate it with a bible passage or Latin.
They will think its simply the stuff that is on everything in the morning. Dear- now I have morning is broken in my head!
Like the first dew…:rolleyes:
 
Okay, I am a bit touchy now I guess. Thanks for clearing it up for me. Sorry I went off the rails on that one.:o :o :o 🤷
 
Isn’t “Make holy, thefore, these gifts, we pray, by sending down your Spirit upon them like dewfall” the Epiclesis of Eucharistic Prayer II? BTW I like it–reminds me right off about Exodus and God sending manna in the dew of each morning.
 
Thank you, I am sorry I freaked out like that. I should go to bed.:o

Good night!
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Monica:

DEW not give it a second thought! 😃
(Sorry --I have a bad summer cold and it’s making me silly). Love ya–God bless you! I finished your Divine Mercy Novena today so am hoping you get extra special graces!
 
Scylla and Reff,

I know scant Spanish, but from my readings of the Spanish missal, I have always thought it looked a lot closer to Latin than English. I think it’s always been pretty obvious that Liturgiam Authenticam was written with mainly ICEL in mind, though it does single out a few other languages including German, French, Portuguese, Italian and Spanish.

Phemie,

The idea that it won’t be implemented until the “entire” Missal is translated (which technically includes the entire Bible) is a stalilng tactic the USCCB invented.

The text approved by the Vatican is precisely the text they rejected at their June meeting.

Chronology:
June meeting is inconclusive (but debate surrounds phrases like “consubstantial with the father” and “this chalice”).
One week later, Cardinal Arinze sends the text, along with a cover letter saying, “This is binding.” He expresses a desire that it be implemented immediately, but gives 2 years for publication and for liturigcal musicians to develop truly appropriate musical settings.
July: the bishops’ write-in vote rejects the translation
Late July: the USCCB publishes the text and Cardinal Arinze’s letter, ignoring their own mail-in vote (it is not referenced on their website), and some commentators try to claim that what they voted to reject was something different.
 
Tantum_ergo said:
Monica:

DEW not give it a second thought! 😃
(Sorry --I have a bad summer cold and it’s making me silly). Love ya–God bless you! I finished your Divine Mercy Novena today so am hoping you get extra special graces!
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You are such a blessing to me. I never knew what that was until you offered to pray it for me. Thank you for helping me learn about the Divine Mercy. I thought about if it would be okay to say that prayer today (lol) at 3:00 pm even though its a day for Mary. Somehow, I dont think she would mind.

Thank you for the prayers also, its such a commitment, I hope I can get to that point, where I can do novenas, and attempt to go to mass daily if possible, and learn how to listen to God.

:hug1:
 
I guess my understanding of theology is off…
The new translation says “the Only Begotten Son of God, Born of the Father before all ages.”
Code: 
Doesn't this imply the Son had a beginning instead of existing eternally with the Father?
I’m a littled confusered…God the Son had no beginning.
 
Hello,

Does anyone know if and/or when there will be new and better translations for the Liturgy of the Hours?
 
Layp3rs0n said:
I guess my understanding of theology is off…
The new translation says “the Only Begotten Son of God, Born of the Father before all ages.”
Code: 
Doesn't this imply the Son had a beginning instead of existing eternally with the Father?
I’m a littled confusered…God the Son had no beginning.
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Your theology isn’t off, your English is. 😛

…before all ages: this means that he was begotten from all eternity; literally before any age began - that is it transcends time. It is a direct translation of the Latin - ante omnia saecula.
 
GodsGadfly said:
Scylla and Reff,

I know scant Spanish, but from my readings of the Spanish missal, I have always thought it looked a lot closer to Latin than English. I think it’s always been pretty obvious that Liturgiam Authenticam was written with mainly ICEL in mind, though it does single out a few other languages including German, French, Portuguese, Italian and Spanish.

Phemie,

The idea that it won’t be implemented until the “entire” Missal is translated (which technically includes the entire Bible) is a stalilng tactic the USCCB invented.

The text approved by the Vatican is precisely the text they rejected at their June meeting.

Chronology:
June meeting is inconclusive (but debate surrounds phrases like “consubstantial with the father” and “this chalice”).
One week later, Cardinal Arinze sends the text, along with a cover letter saying, “This is binding.” He expresses a desire that it be implemented immediately, but gives 2 years for publication and for liturigcal musicians to develop truly appropriate musical settings.

July: the bishops’ write-in vote rejects the translation

Late July: the USCCB publishes the text and Cardinal Arinze’s letter, ignoring their own mail-in vote (it is not referenced on their website), and some commentators try to claim that what they voted to reject was something different.
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You’ve got that wrong.

The Ordinary of the Mass had been accepted by all Conferences and submitted to Rome at least 18 months ago. That’s what Rome just approved.

The July vote dealt with the Propers of the Season. The USCCB was the last Conference to vote on those and unfortunately rejected the translation of certain Collects. Had they accepted, the Propers would have been submitted to Rome for approval.

Each part of the Roman Missal is being done separately and once every Conference has accepted one part it’s submitted to Rome.
 
snhs said:
“Christ has died” to “We proclaim your death, O Lord,”
“Christ is risen” to “and profess your resurrection”
“Christ will come again” to “until you come again”.
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That is exactly what we are praying in Vietnamese 🙂

Tak
 
scylla said:
So those of us Spanish speakers will finally see some unity in translation, as it seems quite weird to me when I say responses in Spanish which are way off from the English.
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I don’t understand all these translations. Isn’t the Vatican trying to insert more and more Latin into the liturgy per Vatican II documents? What real difference does it make whether it’s “And with your spirit” rather than “And also with you”? You’re only looking for more controversy and people coming up with reasons why they don’t go to Church anymore. We’re creatures of habit and it will be quite normal to resist any kind of change. But I could be wrong and more people will come out, if only just to see what all the commotion is all about. 🙂

Ok, now you can attack me. 🙂
 
OK, I know a Jesuit priest wrote this NPR Article, but you know when these changes are about to take place, it will be reported in a similar manner in the secular news media.

No where does it mention in that Article that “And with your spirit” was the response prior to Vatican II.

It just says Catholics will no longer to do; no longer do that.

Those are the blazing headlines you will see in the secular press.

NPR likes the Father Andrew Greeley crowd; they also had that one Jesuit priest who passed away recently from Massachusetts, Father Robert Drinan, who was in the U.S. House of Representatives until John Paul the Great told him to leave political office, on the Diane Rehm show.

I just couldn’t stomach some of the things that the late Father Robert Drinan was saying on the radio show.

NPR has called Opus Dei a cult, and their Terry Gross’s “Fresh Air” program has had programs undermining that the books of the Bible were inspired from the Holy Spirit and attacking Evangelical Christianity.

They also had a few programs on the Gnostic Gospels, and various authors critical of the Catholic Church, without any invited second guest to offer an opposing view, etc.

Other Rites in union with the Catholic Church, I’m most familar with the Byzantine Catholic Rite, used “And with your spirit” even after Vatican II.

OK, I admit NPR does have some interesting radio programs, and it is probably better, informationally and educationally speaking, than 95% of the garbage filling our airwaves (except for Catholic Radio!),

But NPR is, in my opinion, very anti-Catholic and anti-Christian, and I wish the federal government would get its head screwed on right, and stop supporting NPR with our tax dollars.
 
ProVobis said:
I What real difference does it make whether it’s “And with your spirit” rather than “And also with you”? . 🙂
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There is a substantial Theological difference.

The response "And with your spirit is a direct recognition that the priest is acting “in persona Christi”, that what we hear from the mouth of the priest is not the priest’s words, but those of the Spirit of Christ Himself acting within the priest.

The response “And also with you” carries with it the connection of the priest Himself, that we are responding to the priest, and not to Christ.

( There was a letter to the editior in my local diocesan paper that decried the new translation. The writers point was that “and with you” recognized that the priest had both a body and a soul and we were addressing the “complete person”. The writer was pretty clueless about who was being addressed in the response")

The new translation carries with it the correct theological precision that can help correct such mistaken assumptions.
 
Brendan said:
There is a substantial Theological difference.

The response "And with your spirit is a direct recognition that the priest is acting “in persona Christi”, that what we hear from the mouth of the priest is not the priest’s words, but those of the Spirit of Christ Himself acting within the priest.

The response “And also with you” carries with it the connection of the priest Himself, that we are responding to the priest, and not to Christ.

( There was a letter to the editior in my local diocesan paper that decried the new translation. The writers point was that “and with you” recognized that the priest had both a body and a soul and we were addressing the “complete person”. The writer was pretty clueless about who was being addressed in the response")

The new translation carries with it the correct theological precision that can help correct such mistaken assumptions.
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So we are wishing the Lord is with the spirit of CHrist? I don’t understand.
 
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