'catholics "worsip Mary"

[willingheart]

Sorry - I can’t seem to get the hang of this quoting function.

You can’t be serious. Are you telling me that those made perfect in heaven can’t hear us even though they are spoken of in Hebrews 12:1 as “a great cloud of witnesses”?

Perfection in heaven refers to being sanctified in full. I don’t know that that gives us extra abilities. And the passage in Hebrews speaks about faithful Israelites who have gone on before us, but it does not say anything about us being in communication with them as we live out this life. How does this passage prove your point?

no point because as I told him, I never said we pray FOR saints - we pray TO them for intercession. We ask them to pray for US.

I believe Planten responded to you in this way because all of the scripture you referenced previously had to do with praying with or for others. None of it mentioned praying TO those in heaven.

Either you and Planten

can’t read or you refuse to. It has already been established that prayer isn’t necessarily worship. It’s not even the first definition in the dictionary. Prayer means to request something of somebody.

I’ve said this before - when the Disciples asked Jesus how they should pray, He taught them the Lord’s Prayer: “Our Father Who art in heaven…” He never added that we should pray TO anyone else, or even suggested this was a possibility. He might have said we could pray to Moses or Abraham, or even Ezekiel, but he did not. We are to direct our prayers to God.

And someone mentioned it before, was it you? What about that passage in Deuteronomy which prohibits “consulting with the dead?”

BTW Elvis, you seem really angry

[/QUOTE]

 

[planten]

Please tell me how u used a "jugglery" of words, Planten. How did I manipulate or trick Willingheart?
**Please enlighten me. I am *riveted ***. . .

Elvis, I am sorry. The posts #92, #93 and #105 were misleading. Those were the words of WillingHeart that I had read and felt that they were from you. They were embedded words, post within a post. So please ignore what I ascribed to you in my last few posts. Thanks.

 

[elvisman]

Elvis, I am sorry. The posts #92, #93 and #105 were misleading. Those were the words of WillingHeart that I had read and felt that they were from you. They were embedded words, post within a post. So please ignore what I ascribed to you in my last few posts. Thanks.

Fair enough, Planten.

 

[elvisman]

Perfection in heaven refers to being sanctified in full. I don’t know that that gives us extra abilities. And the passage in Hebrews speaks about faithful Israelites who have gone on before us, but it does not say anything about us being in communication with them as we live out this life. How does this passage prove your point?

**Perfection and sanctification in heaven doesn’t give us “extra” abilities – it gives us infinite abilities. The fact that Moses and Elijah came down to ****speak **with Jesus at the Transfiguration should give you some clue as to whether or not they can have contact with those on earth.
If you don’t believe this, then you deny the Transfiguration.

I believe Planten responded to you in this way because all of the scripture you referenced previously had to do with praying with or for others. None of it mentioned praying TO those in heaven.

As I’ve already pointed out to you, those in heaven are united with us as the Body of Christ.
1 Cor. 12:26** says (as I’ve already shown you 3 times):**
***“If (one) part suffers, ******all ******the parts suffer with it; if one part is honored, *****all the parts share its joy.”
How can those in heaven share in our joy if they can’t see or hear us?
Revelation 8:3-4 speaks of how those in heaven intercede for us:
**“Another angel came and stood at the altar, holding a gold censer. He was given a great quantity of incense to offer, along with the prayers of all the holy ones, on the gold altar that was before the throne. **
The smoke of the incense along with the prayers of the holy ones went up before God from the hand of the angel.”

I’ve said this before - when the Disciples asked Jesus how they should pray, He taught them the Lord’s Prayer: “Our Father Who art in heaven…” He never added that we should pray TO anyone else, or even suggested this was a possibility. He might have said we could pray to Moses or Abraham, or even Ezekiel, but he did not. We are to direct our prayers to God.

Nobody was in heaven at the time, were they? Everybody who died in God’s favor up until that time was in the abode of the dead or the “Bosom of Abraham”.
**Again, you are equating prayer with worship and for some reason the fact that prayer isn’t necessary worship doesn’t seem to register with you. **

And someone mentioned it before, was it you? What about that passage in Deuteronomy which prohibits “consulting with the dead?”

The passage you’re referring to is Deut. 18:10-11, which forbids necromancy, witchcraft and fortune-telling:
“Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead.”

Asking those in heaven to pray for us is NOT necromancy (conjuring up the dead for magical revelations) or any of those other things. If you truly believe it is, then

BTW Elvis, you seem really angry

I’m not angry at all. What makes you say that?

 

[Ruthie]

when the Disciples asked Jesus how they should pray, He taught them the Lord’s Prayer: “Our Father Who art in heaven…” He never added that we should pray TO anyone else, or even suggested this was a possibility.

He did ask us to pray for each other and for Him.

Of course, willingheart, if you believe in “soul sleep,” this won’t make any sense to you. But we believe that the Church is united, whether her members are here or in Heaven. So I can ask my fellow Christians to pray for me, whether they’re here or in Heaven.

We do not pray to the saints as if they were gods. We ask them to pray for us, as fellow Christians, just as Paul asked the churches to pray for him. (Col 4:3, I Thess 5:25, 2 Thess 3:1, Heb 13:18, for starters.) Do you think Paul was praying to those churches? Do you think he substituted that for praying to God?

Of course not. Neither do we.

God Bless you,

Ruthie

 

[roselily]

Dear brothers and sisters in God, our Lord Jesus loves and honour His MaMa.

in HOLY BIBLE Ecclesiasticus, Sirach 3 Duties towards Parents
"Listen to me your father,
O children;
act accordingly, that you may be
kept in safety.
For the LORD honours a father
above his children,
and he confirms a mother’s
right over her children.
Those who honour their father
atone for sins,
and those who respect their
mother are like those who
lay up treasure.
Those who honour their father
will have joy in their own
children,
and when they pray they will be
heard,
Those who respect their father
will have long life,
and those who honour their
mother obey the Lord;
they will serve their parents as
their masters.
Ecclesiasticus, Sirach 3:1-7

 

[planten]

From the posts of the christian friends here, we have understood that they do not worship Mary. We are now sure that they do not worship any One.

 

[Bill_Pick]

From the posts of the christian friends here, we have understood that they do not worship Mary. We are now sure that they do not worship any One.

YOU ARE VERY WRONG MY FRIEND WE WORSHIO GOD DO YOU ?

 

[Bill_Pick]

You Are Very Wrong My Friend And In More Ways Then This, We Do Worship God

 

[elvisman]

From the posts of the christian friends here, we have understood that they do not worship Mary. We are now sure that they do not worship any One.

Care to explain that comment? I don’t think you can.