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RDJ
Guest
I saw a thread asking Protestants why we won’t join the Catholic Church, so I thought I would start a similar thread. Would you join a Protestant Church? If not, why?
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orionsbelt
Guest
No. Simple answer - Only the Catholic Church has the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
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RDJ
Guest
How do you know that only the Catholic Church has the Real Presence in the Eucharist?
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Adonia
Guest
No. Same reason as previously stated by orionsbelt. When first married, my wife and I went to her Lutheren Church for awhile but it just wasn’t the same and she eventually converted to the Roman Rite. As an over the road truck driver, i attend services sometimes at truck stops (when I can’t find a Catholic Church). They are usually done by a local Baptist preacher. I enjoy the readings and singing the hymns, but with no Eucharist there it is just not the same.
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orionsbelt
Guest
Well first off only very few even believe in the real presence within their own teachings. So eliminate those right off the bat.
The few that do claim a belief do not have valid preistly orders. I am pretty sure that the ones that do claim valid orders do not deny that the Catholic Church has the real presence. So the end result is that there would be no point of switching when there is no doubt within Catholic Church.
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RDJ
Guest
I can’t speak for all United Methodists, but I believe in the Real Presence.
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RDJ
Guest
I believe that the Real Presence can be felt by anyone who believes that the Real Presence is in the Eucharist.
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RDJ
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Why don’t Catholics believe that?
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imkingdad
Guest
No, I spent several years researching the Various World Religions and after much reflection, introspection, prayer and thought I chose the Catholic Church.
The seven sacraments, 2000 yrs of demonstrable proof of its teachings, its openness to others, Its understanding and teaching of Sacred Scripture & Tradition, its overall inerrancy over this timeframe. Mary & the Saints, The Fact that every Protestant Church owes its very life and existence to the Catholic Church. ( why settle for 2nd or 3rd best or even worse)
Lastly, it is the the Church that Christ founded & that the Gates of Hell have never prevailed against, Protected by God - the Holy Spirit, and the fulfillment of the OT
prophecies.
If I couldn’t be Catholic, I’d have only one other choice. Jewish - Hebrew.
Regards,
Vivat Jesus.
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Filioque
Guest
After looking at the history and teachings of the various religious groups, I would remain Catholic.
While the Orthodox, and most Old Catholics, the Swedesh Lutherans (probably) and some Anglicans, who were consecrated by Old Catholics, when they wanted to have assurance of a Valid line of Apostolic Succession. All have priests who are validly ordained, and therefore can confect the Eucharist validly. I being convinced of the Place of Peter and his successors as Vicars of Christ, could not abandon the Church I believe Christ founded, for one that either adds novel doctrines, or abandons what the Apostles taught, and handed down from Jesus. I do not believe other Churches have the Apostolic Authority to teach and rule.
As for the Methodist Church. I understand that John Westley, an Anglican priest at a time when the spiritual and academic formation of Anglican clergy was haphazard to say the least, taught that the power to ordain was not reserved to bishops, but that he as a priest could ordain, contrary to the traditional teachings of even his own Anglican Church, which he claimed to not be leaving.
I believe that without a priest, one has a symbolic union with Christ, with a priest and a valid Mass, you have the real presence in the Catholic sense, not just Jesus with us “Spititually” but the entire Resurrected and Glorified Christ, Body and Soul, Humanity and Divinity. Unable to be killed, again, the principle priest at every Mass, and the Victim offered in an unbloody manner, beyond time, and space.
Why would I want to leave all that, and our Lady too?
While the Orthodox, and most Old Catholics, the Swedesh Lutherans (probably) and some Anglicans, who were consecrated by Old Catholics, when they wanted to have assurance of a Valid line of Apostolic Succession. All have priests who are validly ordained, and therefore can confect the Eucharist validly. I being convinced of the Place of Peter and his successors as Vicars of Christ, could not abandon the Church I believe Christ founded, for one that either adds novel doctrines, or abandons what the Apostles taught, and handed down from Jesus. I do not believe other Churches have the Apostolic Authority to teach and rule.
As for the Methodist Church. I understand that John Westley, an Anglican priest at a time when the spiritual and academic formation of Anglican clergy was haphazard to say the least, taught that the power to ordain was not reserved to bishops, but that he as a priest could ordain, contrary to the traditional teachings of even his own Anglican Church, which he claimed to not be leaving.
I believe that without a priest, one has a symbolic union with Christ, with a priest and a valid Mass, you have the real presence in the Catholic sense, not just Jesus with us “Spititually” but the entire Resurrected and Glorified Christ, Body and Soul, Humanity and Divinity. Unable to be killed, again, the principle priest at every Mass, and the Victim offered in an unbloody manner, beyond time, and space.
Why would I want to leave all that, and our Lady too?
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
Remember, according to the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church also has the Real Presence in the Eucharist.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
I would never join a Protestant church, for the reasons already given. To join a Protestant church would mean believing certain things that I do not believe. If anything, I would join the Orthodox Church, and have considered that. However in my view, no Protestant church really offers anything that I cannot find in the Catholic Church, and I find beliefs such as sola scriptura (not that all Protestants/non-Catholics buy this) unbiblical.
I see traditional Anglicans in a different way, however that’s just one big mess, at least at this time.
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orionsbelt
Guest
I recognize that there are Rites within the Chuch that are in communion with the Roman Rite and that these other Rites have the Real Presence also. These different Rites are for the most part associated with various other cultures. These other Rites are not Protestant.
The original question was why Catholics don’t join Protestant Churchs not why not switch affiliation to an different Rite within the Catholic Church.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
Because to Catholics, the Real Presence is a matter of fact. It does not exist because we want it to be there. Whether one acknowledges it or not, it is there. If every single person that attended Mass or Divine Liturgy denied the Real Presence (…), it would still be there, whether they believed it was or not.
Now, Catholics also believe that Jesus is present when two or more are gathered in His name. Therefore, other Christians certainly gather in Jesus’ name, and Jesus is certainly present, since that’s what He said. However, Catholics believe that Jesus is present in multiple ways. He is seated at the right hand of the Father. He is present when two or more are gathered in His name. We also believe that He is present in the Eucharist of Churches with valid apostolic succession and thus a valid priesthood. We believe that only the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Polish National Catholic Church, the Assyrian Church of the East, Oriental Orthodox (if i’m not mistaken) have this (of course, I’m sure there are others that have been validly ordained and have not broken apostolic succession (a great change in doctrine does this, such as women’s ordination).
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Roy5
Guest
As one who has been active in Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational churches (in different communities after moving), the Methodists believe in the Real Presence - of course. But in the sense that Christ promised to be with us everywhere at all times. That surely is the Real Presence.
Code:
That, however, is quite removed from transubstantiation, which - like other Protestants - Methodists do not accept.
Frankly, I don't think God cares whether we are Catholic or Methodist, Baptist or Presbyterian, Lutheran or Congregationalist. We have, above all, been instructed to love God and one another, and nearly everything else is secondary. There is an inappropriate arrogance, in my view, when we go around claiming that we belong to the one and only true church - or even the best church. We have differing religious tastes. I am not liturgically-oriented; others are, I like gospel music; others don't. I don't treasure ancient creeds; others do. Brilliant scholars have embraced a wide variety of Christian (and other) faiths. We all are pilgrims together and ought to see religion as a bridge and not a barrier.
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ljubim
Guest
Well… a big objection I have to Protestantism is history. Let’s look at the bible.
Protestants I’ve known have often picked little verses out of countext, to try to prove that the Church is wrong. I could go into that, but the point is that we can argue over interpretation all we want, the Church has debated this as well. But instead, a dose of history.
The bible was compiled by POPE Damascus in the year 382
.(and reaffirmed at the Council of Hippo, the first Council of Carthage, the second Council of Carthage… you get the picture.) This means that three hundred and fifty years after Jesus there was only Sacred Tradition for good christians to follow. Which we still have today. Read up on the early church fathers, look up the church’s hierarchy etc. There’s no doubt, what existed in the period between Jesus and the bible’s compilation is The Catholic Church, as we know her today. Same beliefs, same practices, same leadership, same everything.
Then one thousand and five hundred years after Jesus one man comes along who thinks he knows better, and he begins to spread his lies throughout the world. (BTW he objected to the entire system of indulgences, because Tetzler (sp), who I believe was a bishop, was acting against the Church and issuing them to people who helped in a Vatican construction project, w/o fulfilling the requirements of a confession, eucharist, etc.) One haughty individual disagrees with what Jesus passed on to His apostles. This individual removed himself from the church which Jesus founded; he’s intentionally denied the Truth. Not to mention the Luther removed books from the bible, and dares to say that the Church added some to refute him! It’s quite possibly that this man is delusional…
So Protestantism was invented only in the last quarter of our two thousand years after Christ.
So would I take part in this heresy, following a few deranged rebels instead of Jesus? Yeah right.
RDJ needs our prayers.
Protestants I’ve known have often picked little verses out of countext, to try to prove that the Church is wrong. I could go into that, but the point is that we can argue over interpretation all we want, the Church has debated this as well. But instead, a dose of history.
The bible was compiled by POPE Damascus in the year 382
.(and reaffirmed at the Council of Hippo, the first Council of Carthage, the second Council of Carthage… you get the picture.) This means that three hundred and fifty years after Jesus there was only Sacred Tradition for good christians to follow. Which we still have today. Read up on the early church fathers, look up the church’s hierarchy etc. There’s no doubt, what existed in the period between Jesus and the bible’s compilation is The Catholic Church, as we know her today. Same beliefs, same practices, same leadership, same everything.Then one thousand and five hundred years after Jesus one man comes along who thinks he knows better, and he begins to spread his lies throughout the world. (BTW he objected to the entire system of indulgences, because Tetzler (sp), who I believe was a bishop, was acting against the Church and issuing them to people who helped in a Vatican construction project, w/o fulfilling the requirements of a confession, eucharist, etc.) One haughty individual disagrees with what Jesus passed on to His apostles. This individual removed himself from the church which Jesus founded; he’s intentionally denied the Truth. Not to mention the Luther removed books from the bible, and dares to say that the Church added some to refute him! It’s quite possibly that this man is delusional…
So Protestantism was invented only in the last quarter of our two thousand years after Christ.
So would I take part in this heresy, following a few deranged rebels instead of Jesus? Yeah right.
RDJ needs our prayers.
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ThuriferAcolyte
Guest
The Eastern Catholic churches are in communion with the Bishop of Rome and are part of the Catholic Church. The Orthodox Church(es) (which I referenced) is not in communion with the Bishop of Rome, and is not part of the Catholic Church, yet the Catholic Church considers them as having the Real Presence, valid apostolic succession, and valid orders. Therefore, I was not talking at all about switching Rites.
I am aware what the original question was. My statement was in reference to this:
Just clarifying the Catholic position.
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